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  #1941  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2018, 3:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fisher Account View Post
Ken King has stated it will be smaller than the current Dome. Most likely in the 18k range.

There are diminishing returns on the amount of 'cheap seats' you add to an arena, so the focus is on maximizing revenue with a larger lower bowl, and smaller bowls as you move upwards.
It's the revenue from the boxes and suites that the Flames are after.

And as for the Flames providing the renders, I think this is what they were working toward when talks broke off. CSEC (Flames parent company) is only interested in making money out of this, and it's not surprising their investment is about the same amount the value of the team will increase by with a new barn (about $110M). If the upper level seats can now be premium, they will be all over that, it's about profit, not the fans.
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  #1942  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2018, 3:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoDrew View Post
Ticket prices are insane. This was last seasons average ticket price per team.

Toronto Maple Leafs $317
New York Rangers $257
Boston Bruins $243
Edmonton Oilers $242
Chicago Blackhawks $229
Nashville Predators $175
Calgary Flames $171
Montreal Canadiens $170
Winnipeg Jets $170

Detroit Red Wings $166
Vegas Golden Knights $162
Minnesota Wild $158
Pittsburgh Penguins $141
Tampa Bay Lightning $137
Ottawa Senators $135
Los Angeles Kings $132
Vancouver Canucks $130
Columbus Blue Jackets $126
Philadelphia Flyers $126
Carolina Hurricanes $117
New Jersey Devils $115
Washington Capitals $112
Buffalo Sabres $107
Dallas Stars $107
Florida Panthers $102
St. Louis Blues $100
New York Islanders $95
Arizona Coyotes $95
Colorado Avalanche $94
Anaheim Ducks $94
San Jose Sharks $94
Ottawa's is in the middle of the pack?

EDIT: Right, that was last season when they covered up the cheap seats. Average price has probably gone down significantly since then.

Last edited by J.OT13; Oct 12, 2018 at 5:58 PM.
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  #1943  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2018, 3:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoDrew View Post
Ticket prices are insane. This was last seasons average ticket price per team.

Toronto Maple Leafs $317
New York Rangers $257
Boston Bruins $243
Edmonton Oilers $242
Chicago Blackhawks $229
Nashville Predators $175
Calgary Flames $171
Montreal Canadiens $170
Winnipeg Jets $170

Detroit Red Wings $166
Vegas Golden Knights $162
Minnesota Wild $158
Pittsburgh Penguins $141
Tampa Bay Lightning $137
Ottawa Senators $135
Los Angeles Kings $132
Vancouver Canucks $130
Columbus Blue Jackets $126
Philadelphia Flyers $126
Carolina Hurricanes $117
New Jersey Devils $115
Washington Capitals $112
Buffalo Sabres $107
Dallas Stars $107
Florida Panthers $102
St. Louis Blues $100
New York Islanders $95
Arizona Coyotes $95
Colorado Avalanche $94
Anaheim Ducks $94
San Jose Sharks $94
I'm really surprised San Jose and Anaheim are at the bottom of the list, they don't have any trouble selling tickets in those markets...
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  #1944  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2018, 4:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Maybe Winnipeg is a bit of an outlier in this regard?

I have half-season tickets for the Jets in the upper deck, one step up from the "cheap seats", such as they are.

My cost is $65.15 per ticket but walkup prices, for the very same seat, is either $131.00, $121.00, $110.00 or $103.00 depending on opponent.

This is why I rarely bought walkup tickets from the box office while I was on the waitlist for season tickets... the thought of paying such a steep premium didn't sit well with me. Most of the games I went to before signing up for a package were either via comp tickets from business contacts or purchases from friends with season tickets.
That's a helluva discount.
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  #1945  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2018, 5:55 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Toronto is staggering, and I suspect their lead here will grow if this season maintains its current trajectory. It would be interesting to know where the Leafs stand relative other major league teams in other sports.
They do pretty good.

NBA: in 2016/17, Golden State was the most expensive ticket at $240 (313 CAD). There's no doubt they've gone up since, though.

MLB: in 2018, the Cubs had the most expensive ticket at $58 (76 CAD).

NFL: in 2018, the LA Chargers had the most expensive ticket at $199 (260 CAD).

Premier League: in 2018, Arsenal had the most expensive ticket at £95 (162 CAD).
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  #1946  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2018, 6:10 PM
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Those Leafs tix prices are absolutely crazy! To think they are allowed to have such a monopoly on the S. Ontario market.

I wonder if MLSE has something in the works to build a 30k seat rink or something, which I would no doubt guess every seat would get sold.If it is even doable of course for hockey. Especially with the dynasty it seems they are creating!

Good on ya Leaf nation!
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  #1947  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2018, 6:19 PM
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^ Edmonton's rate is impressively high too, considering that the Oilers have only had one really good season in the last 25 years and Edmonton is far smaller than the cities which rank above it to boot.

But as for Toronto, with a number like that it's amazing that the NHL resists the temptation to add another team to the GTA. A second team could probably crack the $200 average right on day one.
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  #1948  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2018, 6:38 PM
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All in US $ I assume ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoDrew View Post
Ticket prices are insane. This was last seasons average ticket price per team.

Toronto Maple Leafs $317
New York Rangers $257
Boston Bruins $243
Edmonton Oilers $242
Chicago Blackhawks $229
Nashville Predators $175
Calgary Flames $171
Montreal Canadiens $170
Winnipeg Jets $170

Detroit Red Wings $166
Vegas Golden Knights $162
Minnesota Wild $158
Pittsburgh Penguins $141
Tampa Bay Lightning $137
Ottawa Senators $135
Los Angeles Kings $132
Vancouver Canucks $130
Columbus Blue Jackets $126
Philadelphia Flyers $126
Carolina Hurricanes $117
New Jersey Devils $115
Washington Capitals $112
Buffalo Sabres $107
Dallas Stars $107
Florida Panthers $102
St. Louis Blues $100
New York Islanders $95
Arizona Coyotes $95
Colorado Avalanche $94
Anaheim Ducks $94
San Jose Sharks $94
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  #1949  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2018, 3:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ Edmonton's rate is impressively high too, considering that the Oilers have only had one really good season in the last 25 years and Edmonton is far smaller than the cities which rank above it to boot.

But as for Toronto, with a number like that it's amazing that the NHL resists the temptation to add another team to the GTA. A second team could probably crack the $200 average right on day one.
Supply/demand/winter/Oilers/Rogers Place.
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  #1950  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2018, 3:22 PM
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Ice District - I cannot wait for the grocery store in tower B/G. It will start construction this January.








https://twitter.com/IanOyeg/status/1051129815468630017
@ianoyeg
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  #1951  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2018, 4:23 PM
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[QUOTE=The Fisher Account;8337109]CMLC (Calgary Municipal Land Corporation) released concepts of a new Calgary event centre (arena) today. Note that these concepts were provided by the Flames.

CMLC is responsible for redeveloping the Rivers district (current area where the Saddledome is).

Interesting to see that this may be one of the first examples of an inverted bowl in Canada.

The inverted bowl seems pretty slick! Article mentions 2 Canadian cities as well as a west coast city that designs have been made for.

Calgary seems like one of the cities. Would Ottawa be the other? Hard to guess where else? Maybe Toronto, not that a new arena is needed but I could see someone with deep pockets proposing it in hopes of luring a second Toronto NHL team.

Saskatoon has talked about a downtown arena as a replacement for SaskTel centre, but I'd highly doubt they are the second city.
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  #1952  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2018, 2:24 PM
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I found the inverted bowl concept in August and posted it on the Ottawa thread wondering if maybe that's what was in store for the new LeBreton Flats arena. Though the concepts from late 2015 did not show this, it's more than likely they've been improving the design over the last few years while the Sens and their partners were negotiating with the NCC.

The cheaper building cost should also be quite attractive for an owner who may or may not have limited funds, and will definitely not be benefiting from public subsidies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Seems like Ottawa might be the perfect fit to implement this concept. This could create more mid-income seating that could fit well in our government town market to compensate for the lack of interest in luxury boxes.

The arena design accounts for between 16,500 and 19,000 seats.

The Inverted Bowl by Rossetti SM

Video Link




The website claims an 18% smaller building footprint and patrons will be 50% closer to the event. It also claims that it uses 22% less steel tonnage which contributes to 15% lower construction costs.

And here's a quote that speaks to the LeBreton Flats situation:

URBAN CONTEXT
Unlike most arenas, The Inverted Bowl is meant to seamlessly integrate into urban environments. It can fit within city block units as a result of the smaller footprint and perimeters will allow for programmed spaces. Public funding for venues is rapidly declining, and that trend will continue for the foreseeable future. They must be smaller and faster to construct with lower construction and materials investment required.


http://theinvertedbowl.com/

Few articles about this new concept with more renderings.

https://www.architectmagazine.com/te...ng-hierarchy_o
https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2...arena-concept/
https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/i...uld_bring.html
Someone responded with a rendering from Seattle's 2013 arena proposal showing a similar concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by migo View Post
Reminds me a bit of what was proposed in 2013 for the new Seattle arena:
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  #1953  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2018, 2:40 PM
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Bet Winnipeg would have like to have this design when squeezing MTS Centre into their current footprint
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  #1954  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2018, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoDrew View Post
Ticket prices are insane. This was last seasons average ticket price per team.
Are these all converted to Can$ or US$? Or is it Can$ in Canadian cities and US$ in US cities. That could change the chart significantly.
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  #1955  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2018, 12:19 PM
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York9 released some renders and information on stadiums they'll be using for the next few seasons.

http://canpl.ca/video/york-9-fc-unve...019-and-beyond

York Alumni Field (early 2019-mid 2019)


York Lions Stadium (mid-2019 onwards)




York9 are planning on playing out of York Lions Stadium for 2-3 years with an eye at building a 12-15K stadium.

York Lions Stadium is going to be renovated in the first half of 2019 (taking out grass and putting in turf so the stadium can be used by soccer, rugby, etc.) so York9 have to play out of Alumni until that is completed. The Ontario Arrows of Major League Rugby will also be using York Lions Stadium next year when they start their first season.

If you thought the Toronto sports markets was diluted enough it's going to be even more diluted next year.
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  #1956  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2018, 1:46 PM
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12-15k seems quite ambitious! I'm sure there's plenty of TFC fans that come in from Vaughan. I used to play at the Soccer Centre on Martin Grove for three years and made friends with tonnes of locals who I then attended TFC games with over the years.

I can't imagine many of them will be dropping TFC games for York 9 games. Maybe take in one game a year since it's so close. They key of course, will be drawing in new fans, but enough to even remotely fill a stadium that big? That's a big ask. I was thinking 5,000 would be more realistic for stadium size. Expandable of course, if the need arises.

I know in England and I'm sure other parts of Europe, they can fill a big stadium in the heart of the city, but also fill some smaller grounds for smaller clubs elsewhere in the city or on the outskirts. But they have a footballing culture there.

And the ticket pricing structure will be very interesting. Price it too high and it's a turn off. Too low and it gives the impression of being amateur.

Intercounty Baseball will always have this struggle with a GTA team. Mississauga Twins or Burlington Herd for example, play/played at basically high level youth baseball diamonds. You could pay $7 for a ticket to sit in one of the two bleachers or you could just stand outside the fence and watch.

Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team, the most historic of all the teams, plays at Bloor and Christie at basically a youth baseball diamond. It's also in a bowl as two of the sides are hills. Could never charge people to watch. I once attended a house party up the street and ended up playing drunken baseball with a broom stick and tennis ball at midnight.

Meanwhile, Barrie Baycats charge $10 and they have something that actually resembles a stadium.

When your market already has access to the major leagues, and those tickets to the majors can be had for relatively cheap, I think locals have a hard time paying really anything for a league so far off of the majors.

Jays are obviously in another stratosphere than local baseball team. Gap from TFC to York 9 is not that big, but maybe people will be comparing it to Europe.

Pretty sure you can get Jays tickets for $5-$10 for uppers now that they are bad again. TFC will always be cheap for those Wednesday Canadian Championship games, and if you go at end of season when it's cold and they are not competitive like this Sunday, you can go for $5 from a scalper. I myself have gotten tickets for free from people handing them out on shitty days.

Now Raptors 905 and Marlies are one step below the pinnacle of their sports. And some of those guys actually have been or will be in the big show. I haven't been to a 905 game and haven't been to Marlies since 2010 but I would have to guess they will still get better numbers than York 9. At the same time, I would guess their attendances are below league average because they simply are not the majors, and TO has the mentality for only settling for big time sports.

Mississauga, St Mikes and Brampton OHL attendances are/were well below league average. However, Oshawa does well. Though they are at the end of the GTA and also their own CMA.
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  #1957  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2018, 1:58 PM
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I've said it before but Toronto doesn't really have a big spectator sports culture. If you compare it to a place like London like you did or even Australian cities like Melbourne or Sydney that have multiple pro Aussie rules or rugby teams all over the metro each drawing 15,000-40,000 a game. This in addition to secondary sports (basketball, soccer, etc.) that also have a presence in these cities and don't do too badly either.

Toronto looks like a pro spectator sports powerhouse in the Canadian context I suppose but interest and attendance is really bunched up into a tiny handful of teams that you can count on one hand with a few fingers left over.

Comparable extended metros in the U.S. often support NFL-MLB-NBA-NHL-MLS with in some cases more than one team in the league, sometimes other minor league clubs in baseball, basketball, hockey, lacrosse, arena football, WNBA, etc., in addition to 1-2-3 college programs that might draw 20,000-60,000 for football and 10,000-15,000 for basketball.

This isn't really a specific slag on Toronto as my sense is that Canadian cities in general tend to be like this...
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  #1958  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2018, 2:04 PM
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This is a discussion much more suited for the Attendance thread.
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  #1959  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2018, 3:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Dmajackson View Post
Canada Football League (CFL) Stadium Proposal Update and Staff Direction

Looks like Shannon Park is the preferred location for the stadium according to the group behind the CFL Franchise.
Ownership group is looking for:
  • 24,000 capacity stadium on 20 acres at Shannon Park location
  • $170M-$190M pricetag

Now we wait for Staff to return with a recommendation.
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  #1960  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2018, 7:52 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Ownership group is looking for:
  • 24,000 capacity stadium on 20 acres at Shannon Park location
  • $170M-$190M pricetag

Now we wait for Staff to return with a recommendation.
Sounds like Tim Hortons Field 2.0. Not necessarily a bad thing for Halifax.
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