SkyTrain Station Renovations

[vanman]

Future Broadway station redevelpment? From Perkins+Will:









http://www.perkinswill.com/

[Millennium2002]

oooo.... really nice... except from what I gather on the website I dunno if this is the direction the area is actually headed to. I also can't find any of the relevant plans on the city's website. = (

[Zassk]

This is long overdue.

[officedweller]

The plans have been around for a while. Note that the density is restricted to the Safeway site - I don't think the City has any plans to upset the neighbours by upzoning single family or multi-family parcels to increase density....

[lightrail]

Double platforms on the London Underground in operation. This is how it could work at Commercial-Broadway if an second platform is added to the inbound track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czsHkqcUyPY!

Note that both sets of doors open at the same time. I would assume it would just delay the train to use a staggered opening and closing sequence.

[officedweller]

Thanks.
TO at one time (20 years ago) had plans to build additional platforms at Bloor Station on the Yonge Line, but that seems to have fallen off the radar.

I wonder why they close the doors in two stages, whereas they open them all at once?

[lightrail]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Thanks.
TO at one time (20 years ago) had plans to build additional platforms at Bloor Station on the Yonge Line, but that seems to have fallen off the radar.

I wonder why they close the doors in two stages, whereas they open them all at once?

In London the doors are operated by the driver. She'll need to check the mirror or the CCTV to check the doors are clear before closing - my guess is she does one, then the other. Opening is just a matter of pressing two buttons simultaneously. This is my guess as to why.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

oooo.... really nice... except from what I gather on the website I dunno if this is the direction the area is actually headed to. I also can't find any of the relevant plans on the city's website. = (

I think these are outdated, because they don't show the platform extension.

I thought the Expo/Millenium platform was to be extended north right over Broadway - replacing the existing walkway

[Millennium2002]

Well in a way the plan does somewhat match the extension of the platform that they did to the south end of the station. However, whether the neighbouring development will get an upgrade... that's another story.

[eduardo88]

Wow, that looks impressive. Correct me if I'm wrong, but does it look like theres a pedestrian street between the two tower podiums? I really like that idea, although it'd be nicer if they could roof it with glass, that way we could use it year round. It'd be nice to have sidewalk cafes and such, even during rainy weather...

[red-paladin]

Originally Posted by eduardo88

Wow, that looks impressive. Correct me if I'm wrong, but does it look like theres a pedestrian street between the two tower podiums? I really like that idea, although it'd be nicer if they could roof it with glass, that way we could use it year round. It'd be nice to have sidewalk cafes and such, even during rainy weather...

I wish that every skytrain station which is not already surrounded by development gets a Transit Oriented Development like this one and Plaza 88. Royal Oak for example could have towers if they wanted. I know that some like Lake City way and VCC-Clark are in legitimate industrial zones, and 22nd St is in a low density neighbourhood, but there's no excuse that Nanaimo and 29th ave still have houses.

[invisibleairwaves]

To play devil's advocate here, Commercial-Broadway is already at the breaking point just from transfers and the existing density around the stations, and surrounding it with towers could be too much for it to handle. We don't really want a situation like Bloor-Yonge Station. Unless this comes with serious upgrades to the station itself, and especially connections to the M-line platform, I'd be more than a little concerned about it.

That said, it's a nifty idea in theory. I love the little bit of retail at the corner of Grandview and Commercial, over the cut and under the guideway...man, that would be a fun little engineering nightmare with spectacular results.

[madmigs]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

I wish that every skytrain station which is not already surrounded by development gets a Transit Oriented Development like this one and Plaza 88. Royal Oak for example could have towers if they wanted. I know that some like Lake City way and VCC-Clark are in legitimate industrial zones, and 22nd St is in a low density neighbourhood, but there's no excuse that Nanaimo and 29th ave still have houses.

There is a tower going up at Royal Oak station, well just north of it actually at 6842, 6858 & 6876 Royal Oak Avenue. The big empty lot beside the car wash will be a mixed-use commercial and apartment building sometime soon.

And if you look at the latest Major Projects summary - http://www.burnaby.ca/__shared/asset...t_20106773.pdf - you will see there are a number of developments in the area at varying levels of progress. Specifically the 6800 block of Royal Oak Ave and the 5100 through 5400 blocks of Imperial Street.

[madmigs]

Originally Posted by invisibleairwaves

To play devil's advocate here, Commercial-Broadway is already at the breaking point just from transfers and the existing density around the stations, and surrounding it with towers could be too much for it to handle. We don't really want a situation like Bloor-Yonge Station. Unless this comes with serious upgrades to the station itself, and especially connections to the M-line platform, I'd be more than a little concerned about it.

That said, it's a nifty idea in theory. I love the little bit of retail at the corner of Grandview and Commercial, over the cut and under the guideway...man, that would be a fun little engineering nightmare with spectacular results.

If they did put some towers up at Broadway, they would need to at least have the M-line connecting with the Canada Line to cut down on the M-Line to Expo Line transfers. It's really unfortunate that the Broadway platform is so narrow, it really needs to be wider. If it wasn't a center platform you could potentially have just extended the side platforms outwards, but with the center platform, you can't really make it wider without actually having to modify the guideways. Moving the stairwells from the middle of the platform where everyone lines up would alleviate some of the current crowding and the mess of people crisscrossing at the top of the stairs.

Another option would be to just use the center platform for the east bound trains and build another platform over the safeway for the westbound trains. Or use the center platform for the westbound and build another platform over the restaurants/stores for the eastbound. You could also build a platform on the outside of the guideway for getting off the train, keeping the center for getting on the train, but that makes things more complicated and you could potentially need two platforms one for each direction(and corresponding stairs, elevators, etc).

[mr.x]

I believe Translink is looking into building side "exit" platforms for the Broadway Expo Line Station. They acknowledge that crowding is a major issue and it'll only become a larger issue in time.

Same goes with the pedestrian overpass over Broadway as well as the corridor to the Millennium Line, they know they're too narrow. They've been looking into widening both.

[invisibleairwaves]

Originally Posted by madmigs

If they did put some towers up at Broadway, they would need to at least have the M-line connecting with the Canada Line to cut down on the M-Line to Expo Line transfers. It's really unfortunate that the Broadway platform is so narrow, it really needs to be wider. If it wasn't a center platform you could potentially have just extended the side platforms outwards, but with the center platform, you can't really make it wider without actually having to modify the guideways. Moving the stairwells from the middle of the platform where everyone lines up would alleviate some of the current crowding and the mess of people crisscrossing at the top of the stairs.

Another option would be to just use the center platform for the east bound trains and build another platform over the safeway for the westbound trains. Or use the center platform for the westbound and build another platform over the restaurants/stores for the eastbound. You could also build a platform on the outside of the guideway for getting off the train, keeping the center for getting on the train, but that makes things more complicated and you could potentially need two platforms one for each direction(and corresponding stairs, elevators, etc).

The Broadway platform is pretty bad (not the worst in the system though *cough*Columbia*cough*). But the real problem is the Commercial platform and the stairs/escalator to it. It gets completely packed every time a train pulls in, and if/when the M-line gets extended it'll make Metrotown's crowding issues look tame in comparison. And it's a difficult problem to solve without tearing out and reconfiguring the entire station. Very poor design IMO.

[CLC]

Originally Posted by mr.x

I believe Translink is looking into building side "exit" platforms for the Broadway Expo Line Station. They acknowledge that crowding is a major issue and it'll only become a larger issue in time.

Same goes with the pedestrian overpass over Broadway as well as the corridor to the Millennium Line, they know they're too narrow. They've been looking into widening both.

Both are rather low in priority. Broadway station is relatively fine now (compare with other well-known busy stations) after the completed upgrades as of last year.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

I wish that every skytrain station which is not already surrounded by development gets a Transit Oriented Development like this one and Plaza 88. Royal Oak for example could have towers if they wanted. I know that some like Lake City way and VCC-Clark are in legitimate industrial zones, and 22nd St is in a low density neighbourhood, but there's no excuse that Nanaimo and 29th ave still have houses.

Other than the fact that people were living in those houses before the skytrain line came through. Also just because you still see a detached houses. Doesn't meant the number of dwellings in that area have not risen. So there are probably more people living in those areas than before.

Also why is it you seem to be ok with the area around 22nd st. But you don't like the fact that the areas around Nanaimo and 29th haven't developed. So a detached home around 22nd st station is ok. But not around Nanaimo or 29th.

[red-paladin]

Originally Posted by cabotp

Other than the fact that people were living in those houses before the skytrain line came through. Also just because you still see a detached houses. Doesn't meant the number of dwellings in that area have not risen. So there are probably more people living in those areas than before.

Also why is it you seem to be ok with the area around 22nd st. But you don't like the fact that the areas around Nanaimo and 29th haven't developed. So a detached home around 22nd st station is ok. But not around Nanaimo or 29th.

I'm not ok with most of Vancouver remaining zoned for regular detached houses while the suburbs have developed large sections of town for highrises when the skytrain statons were built. If we really believe in ecodensity we need to build TODs around the skytrain line, and keeping areas in the centre of the system zoned in perpetuity for low density residential is unacceptable. The only reason I'm somewhat tolerant of 22nd st is that New West is already taking massive steps to upzone all the other stations at the present time, and 22nd st. is in an awkward location on a hill near cemetaries and would probably never be a suitable place to build highrises. 29th Ave and Nanaimo on the other hand have been mentioned numerous times on this forum and elsewhere as an example of the failure of Vancouver to densify around skytrain stations. There are even large empty lots which sit idle.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

29th Ave and Nanaimo on the other hand have been mentioned numerous times on this forum and elsewhere as an example of the failure of Vancouver to densify around skytrain stations.

It's not easy to densify when you're talking about hundreds of individually-owned lots. Short of expropriation, there isn't any feasible way to do it in the short term. And no council would survive that kind of expropriation.

Joyce was successfully densified because it was adjacent to a large tract of industrial warehouses. 29th Ave is adjacent to a park, but Vancouver would be loath to relinquish park space, and rightly so IMHO.

FWIW the 29th and Nanaimo stations are both the anchors for trolley routes with frequent serivce and numerous feeder bus lines from south. Although the density directly adjacent to the stations is low, they do attract a lot of riders through those feeder lines.

The 2300 Kingsway development will also add a few hundred housing units within walking distance of the Nanaimo station.