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  #201  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2018, 7:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Trae View Post
Well that's the same for Houston. One thing people often forget about during the recent oil bust was that, while west Houston/white-collar energy industry hit a slump, the blue-collar/East side of the Houston metro boomed during this time. The petrochemical refineries and the Port of Houston greatly expanded during those years with billion dollar investments from various companies. This resulted in new homes, retail, etc., for a side of town that didn't feel the growth as much during the boom between 2010-2014. Outside of the energy industry consolidating offices in Houston during the bust years, the growth of the East side is what helped the Houston jobs numbers (which have shown some healthy growth over the past year actually).
Right, I kinda referred to that in another post:

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Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
But on the downstream side, like petrochem manufacture, ag products, refined fuels, construction, logistics, etc, there is an inverse relationship (even Houston experiences this). This is one of the reasons why Texas is a very economically successful state with booming cities... they can play both sides of the O&G price card very well.
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  #202  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2018, 8:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Trae View Post
Well that's the same for Houston. One thing people often forget about during the recent oil bust was that, while west Houston/white-collar energy industry hit a slump, the blue-collar/East side of the Houston metro boomed during this time. The petrochemical refineries and the Port of Houston greatly expanded during those years with billion dollar investments from various companies. This resulted in new homes, retail, etc., for a side of town that didn't feel the growth as much during the boom between 2010-2014. Outside of the energy industry consolidating offices in Houston during the bust years, the growth of the East side is what helped the Houston jobs numbers (which have shown some healthy growth over the past year actually).
Much of the eastside growth are effects of developers moving in and gentrifying entire neighborhoods with townhouses and high end apartments..as a slightly more affordable alternative to areas further west. For those white collar employees. The LRT extension spurred even more growth pushing property values nearby through the roof. Yes, things might have gone pretty well for the workers in the plants but the white collar slump hit the city's economy pretty hard and ground everything to a halt.
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  #203  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2018, 9:58 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Much of the eastside growth are effects of developers moving in and gentrifying entire neighborhoods with townhouses and high end apartments..as a slightly more affordable alternative to areas further west. For those white collar employees. The LRT extension spurred even more growth pushing property values nearby through the roof. Yes, things might have gone pretty well for the workers in the plants but the white collar slump hit the city's economy pretty hard and ground everything to a halt.
I was talking more about points east past the Channelview area. Although I'm glad East Downtown has developed with townhomes and apartments.

As an undergrad at the Univ. of Houston I delivered pizza. My most famous customers? Dallas Keuchel and Jake Marisnick (well before they were World Series champions!). Both lived in those new townhome developments in East Downtown.
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  #204  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2018, 8:18 PM
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Well, as a poster on the first page referenced, it actually isn't that appealing. As said posted noted, they have to pay coastal wages to get the best and brightest to move there, despite having a significantly lower cost of living.

Now before everyone jumps me Houston has a had a top 5 rap scene in the game for decades, the state has some of the best food in the country, the state is an economic powerhouse and tons of fun and cool people live there. But still, those the facts
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  #205  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2018, 8:47 PM
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Does "business-friendly" and low taxes also translate to a very sparse social safety net?

I have a cousin who lives in Florida. She has stage 4 cancer and is undergoing cancer treatments. She has been missing work because of her cancer treatments... I thought maybe she could apply for and collect on state disability insurance. But apparently, Florida doesn't even *HAVE* state disability like California does. I thought that would be a universal thing. Apparently it is not.

When my dad had a heart attack 13 years ago, he was able to go on unpaid medical leave from work and collect on state disability insurance for 4 months while he recovered and went to physical therapy.

I guess I could look it up, but does Texas have state disability insurance?
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Last edited by sopas ej; Jul 20, 2018 at 9:22 PM.
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  #206  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2018, 9:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Eightball View Post
Well, as a poster on the first page referenced, it actually isn't that appealing. As said posted noted, they have to pay coastal wages to get the best and brightest to move there, despite having a significantly lower cost of living.

Now before everyone jumps me Houston has a had a top 5 rap scene in the game for decades, the state has some of the best food in the country, the state is an economic powerhouse and tons of fun and cool people live there. But still, those the facts
Texas based employers pay "coastal wages" because that's how you attract top talent. It's companies (not states) competing for talent. People not in six-figure careers are also moving here in droves so yes, it is appealing. Just our politics aren't.
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  #207  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2018, 11:04 PM
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I'd rather live in a tent in Philadelphia than a nice house in Texas.

Just not my thing down there....
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  #208  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2018, 11:30 PM
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I'd rather live in a tent in Philadelphia than a nice house in Texas.

Just not my thing down there....
oohh good luck with winter, plus getting jacked in the middle of the night!
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Last edited by SLO; Jul 21, 2018 at 12:23 AM.
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  #209  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2018, 11:56 PM
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Does "business-friendly" and low taxes also translate to a very sparse social safety net?
That's the current deal. Personally I would prefer a balance but change has been afoot, albeit slowly, as the state urbanizes.
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  #210  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2018, 12:23 AM
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I agree. However, SA and DFW are geographically located near to major onshore oil and gas plays that haven’t had the fate as offshore. I don’t want to get into an argument about how significant or reliant they are, but it’s certainly not insignificant.

The “oil bust” is complicated. Over $100 billion in refining upgrades occurred along the Gulf Coast during the bust.
I agree, in general the whole state would be affected by a major oil bust, Houston a little more so.
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  #211  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2018, 6:13 AM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Texas based employers pay "coastal wages" because that's how you attract top talent. It's companies (not states) competing for talent. People not in six-figure careers are also moving here in droves so yes, it is appealing. Just our politics aren't.
oh ok so yeah it is very appealing for people of lesser means. which is fine. if this is no market distortion/anomaly/ the desirability is identical why do they have pay the most educated people in the country 30% or more in wages?

Maybe it just is your final sentence. Again, no shade.

Last edited by Eightball; Jul 23, 2018 at 1:26 PM.
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  #212  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2018, 9:39 AM
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Worth noting: I saw the predicted high in Dallas tomorrow is 109F. In San Francisco it's 70F. I guess "so appealing" is relative.
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  #213  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2018, 3:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Eightball View Post
Well, as a poster on the first page referenced, it actually isn't that appealing. As said posted noted, they have to pay coastal wages to get the best and brightest to move there, despite having a significantly lower cost of living.

Now before everyone jumps me Houston has a had a top 5 rap scene in the game for decades, the state has some of the best food in the country, the state is an economic powerhouse and tons of fun and cool people live there. But still, those the facts
The only facts came from your second paragraph.

Texas isn't some backwoods state (okay, maybe it is) but it is home to some major cities that align with the other major cities in this country. DFW and Houston are pretty cosmopolitan by American standards. Austin and SA are pretty major cities in their own right too. They're simply paying competitive wages that one would expect from major cities.

What do you think companies should be paying in urban Texas? Should the wages be similar to Mississippi or Arkansas?

Texas is pretty appealing too, which is why all of the major cities gets tens of thousands of people moving there from across the country every year (Houston and Dallas gets tens of thousands of international immigrants annually too). These people aren't all moving with their companies from the coasts. Also, it's pretty appealing to be able to make 70k-100k, buy a home in a nice suburb with good to great schools, and use the extra money to visit family back home. You'd be hard pressed to make that salary on the coasts and be able to find reasonable schools and not have to commute over an hour to work. An article came out recently where a family of 4 in the Bay Area living on 125k annually is considering low-income. In Texas major cities, that gets you into one of the better suburbs if you have a family. You could probably get into a nice intown neighborhood with that too.

Notice a key theme is having to do with families. The coasts appeal more to singles and DINKs. Texas to those raising families. Now what's happening with urban renewal is that the cores of the major Texas metros are looking more like the developments that have been happening on the coasts. Is it as put together yet? No, but it's getting there. Downtown Austin, Uptown Dallas, and Midtown Houston are becoming good examples. Now those people looking for the urban living or other things that were only found on the coasts 15 years ago can get a good taste of that here for much cheaper. And when they're ready, still find affordable housing in the suburbs for their family.

As far as things like weather, people like different things. The hotter summers in Texas allow for a lot of beach/lake/pool action. You don't get that in the summer in say, SF, cause the water is still too cold. For about four months, the weather can be pretty hot in Texas (though the last several years had mild summers), but the other 8 months of the year are pleasant. State politics may still have some catching up to do but the major cities are pretty moderate and 50/50 which is the best IMO. Having the majority of a region think one way brings problems, no matter which way the pendulum swings (left or right).
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  #214  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2018, 3:35 PM
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What makes Texas so appealing?

Answer: Matthew McConaughey
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  #215  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2018, 3:50 PM
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But in all seriousness, I think its appealing when it comes to prices. Yes some city centers and neighborhoods are expensive, but as a whole, the state is a relative bargain.

Compared to NJ for example, its a bargain. I bloody pay 12.5k in "property" taxes for a property of only 1.5 acres in somerset county.

The sales tax is better in TX. Something like 6.25% and I believe there is no state income tax if I'm thinking of the right state.

More house for the buck. AND more food for the buck. Something I quite like about the South (bar their fetish on guns) is the fact that food is cheap, and when you go out to restaurants, I've noticed you get a ton of it for dirt cheap.

One thing I do like about the state, since I'm a car guy, is there general lax nature on emissions. Its not like the draconian California that god forbit you modify a car, they are all against that. Also , better to buy a car from Texas (one that hasn't flooded) in general due to the lack of salt in the winter.

Job wise, a 100k job can take you way further than a $ 100k job in NJ or even NY.
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  #216  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2018, 11:46 PM
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But in all seriousness, I think its appealing when it comes to prices. Yes some city centers and neighborhoods are expensive, but as a whole, the state is a relative bargain.

Compared to NJ for example, its a bargain. I bloody pay 12.5k in "property" taxes for a property of only 1.5 acres in somerset county.

The sales tax is better in TX. Something like 6.25% and I believe there is no state income tax if I'm thinking of the right state.

More house for the buck. AND more food for the buck. Something I quite like about the South (bar their fetish on guns) is the fact that food is cheap, and when you go out to restaurants, I've noticed you get a ton of it for dirt cheap.

One thing I do like about the state, since I'm a car guy, is there general lax nature on emissions. Its not like the draconian California that god forbit you modify a car, they are all against that. Also , better to buy a car from Texas (one that hasn't flooded) in general due to the lack of salt in the winter.

Job wise, a 100k job can take you way further than a $ 100k job in NJ or even NY.
In addition to those valid points you brought up is that Texas is close to everything via air travel. It's only 2-3 hours anywhere in the U.S. [excluding AK and HI], not to mention the numerous routes to Central and South America.
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  #217  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2018, 11:53 PM
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Questions about RGV

I saw this area thrown out in the multi nodal metros as an example. I had no idea the pop was 1.3 pushing 1.4 million. What is driving the growth, when I research the major oil and gas production areas look to be well West and North of RGV so commuting to those areas would be lengthy. What is the appeal? Is it mostly people of Mexican decent moving to this region? I asked my friend from Houston who is Mexican and she said she doesn't think many Whites or other ethnic groups would be moving to McAllen through Brownsville.

I wanted to use this thread as a way to get more info on Texas and most people have never even heard of the Rio Grande Valley metro so lets discuss.
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  #218  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2018, 12:08 AM
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^ the RGV is fairly poor with not a lot of major industry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eightball View Post
oh ok so yeah it is very appealing for people of lesser means. which is fine. if this is no market distortion/anomaly/ the desirability is identical why do they have pay the most educated people in the country 30% or more in wages?

Maybe it just is your final sentence. Again, no shade.
Because that's what companies are paying. Texas is not tacking on 30% so people will consider living and working here; Texas based employers are competing for talent with other employers in other states and right here in TX. A lot of the high paying jobs (here in Houston) are oil and gas and these jobs command high salaries. Further, it's not that cheap for upwardly mobile professionals. Someone making $150k as an engineer is not living in some $200k house in a cookie cutter suburb but a $500k-$600k house in town or a nicer suburb.
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  #219  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2018, 3:15 AM
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Worth noting: I saw the predicted high in Dallas tomorrow is 109F. In San Francisco it's 70F. I guess "so appealing" is relative.
For what it’s worth, the high temps in Pittsburg and Antioch are 96 and 99. A 90 minute trip to the city from the affordable Bay Area suburbs, all for just twice the cost of a larger home in Dallas. The Bay Area theme has always been: “the weather is perfect and everyone is welcome....... however we aren’t building any more housing so....”
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  #220  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2018, 3:45 AM
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^ the RGV is fairly poor with not a lot of major industry.



Because that's what companies are paying. Texas is not tacking on 30% so people will consider living and working here; Texas based employers are competing for talent with other employers in other states and right here in TX. A lot of the high paying jobs (here in Houston) are oil and gas and these jobs command high salaries. Further, it's not that cheap for upwardly mobile professionals. Someone making $150k as an engineer is not living in some $200k house in a cookie cutter suburb but a $500k-$600k house in town or a nicer suburb.
Excellent point and I think that’s the value that Texas offers. Houston and Dallas are big metros and their respective inner cities are urbanizing rapidly. Houston, now thanks to new flood mitigation requirements is not going to be able to sprawl like it used to and (I would bet) is heading towards a townhome/ high rise boom as more pressure is felt in already developed areas. You can actually own a 3-4 bedroom townhome with a small outdoor garden and a rooftop deck on an entry level coastal salary. And the posters on this site (to their credit) appreciate the pre-war built environment. However, most people couldn’t care less and want to take home more money, own a big TV, a motorcycle, a new modern glassy townhome with a garage, a hammock to relax in at night on a rooftop deck with a view of the skyline, limitless eating/drinking opportunities and other young professionals nearby, and be able to jet off to Mexico, Costa Rica, or the Caribbean every few months without breaking a sweat financially. Texas offers that to people on their 20s and 30s and that’s why Texas is appealing.
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