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  #1601  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2017, 9:07 PM
UrbanRevival UrbanRevival is offline
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Originally Posted by City Wide View Post
When they rolled into town 2+ years ago the vibe I got was that they were ready to move and move fast. I believe what they are proposing in terms of a mix use project is right for the site and unless their prices are way out of line, I think success is a given. The only reason I can see for this not being under construction right now is their ability to find the financial backing that's needed.
Per the article, Mr. Downey did pretty plainly state that "they have the money to develop it." Of course, we're not privy to private financial information, but I do get the sense that, because they're trying to make a very good impression, they're not inclined to boldly lie to a major city business publication.

That being said, I don't understand the pessimism with this latest update. Yes, it's not moving as fast as I'm sure most people would like. But there's every reason to believe that the high-end urban condo market in Philly (and especially at the primest of Center City locations) is going to be just as strong during this time next year or in early 2019, as it is now.

And if the delay means producing the most thoughtful design that they can conceive of, then that's something everyone should be on board with.

Last edited by UrbanRevival; Dec 14, 2017 at 9:18 PM.
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  #1602  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2017, 9:12 PM
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Knight Hospitaller Knight Hospitaller is offline
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^ We also have a timeline. If they don't make the dates, then we can start worrying.
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  #1603  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2017, 9:23 PM
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PHL10 PHL10 is offline
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^ We also have a timeline. If they don't make the dates, then we can start worrying.
They say 9 months to a year before ground breaking and then later in the article it says 2019. They bought the lot almost 3 years ago and still seems to be playing with the actual content and design of the building (apartments vs. condos, etc.). It seems the market is tightening to me. I'm not panicking but it sure seems that waiting another year+ is adding risk to this getting done.
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  #1604  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2017, 9:30 PM
iheartphilly iheartphilly is offline
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I think the developer is obviously trying to maximize the gain$$$ based on the purchase price of the land and the favorable location. In order for them to do this, they want to sell or rent as many units as possible, but I think the bankers and/or investors are incredulous to the price tag of the project. In other words, developer's expectation is not aligned to investors/bankers willingness to finance the amount requested . I think that's why this project been stalling for 3+ years. And, with the projection of another year before construction starts, this means not all the behind the scene deals are done yet since I speculate that there are disagreements at the negotiating table. I give it less than 50% chance of it happening, but hope that it does.
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  #1605  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 12:27 AM
39.95n 39.95n is offline
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Originally Posted by iheartphilly View Post
I think the developer is obviously trying to maximize the gain$$$ based on the purchase price of the land and the favorable location. In order for them to do this, they want to sell or rent as many units as possible, but I think the bankers and/or investors are incredulous to the price tag of the project. In other words, developer's expectation is not aligned to investors/bankers willingness to finance the amount requested . I think that's why this project been stalling for 3+ years. And, with the projection of another year before construction starts, this means not all the behind the scene deals are done yet since I speculate that there are disagreements at the negotiating table. I give it less than 50% chance of it happening, but hope that it does.
Not sure I understand the negativity. These guys tick almost all of the boxes people on this forum complain about all the time. National developer? Check. Developed a high rise in Philly before? Check. Seem to give more than half a thought to architecture and design? Check.

I get it, it's disappointing that they have not broken ground yet, but I don't think that means they are destined for failure. This is a difficult, difficult site, and one wrong decision could cost an awful lot of money. They have already progressed further than anyone else ever has. They have a credible, approved plan for development and have taken real physical steps to implement it (even if everyone did not love their demolition activity).

I have no more idea than anyone else what the real situation is, but these guys are serious players, not "oops I paid too much, now I'm bankrupt, maybe I can flip" clowns like some other land holders in this city. They are into this site for a lot of money, and the only way they are getting it back is to build.

If we are having this conversation in a year, then we can all panic, until then I'm inclined to sit back and hope for a sales office in the spring.

Oh, and someone asked about 3601 Market. It had some lease up issues, but Southern started marketing it for sale in the early summer. No word on whether there is a buyer, but the speculation was that the price would be pretty eye popping...
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  #1606  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 2:49 AM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
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I like it. It's better to get it right. I'm not too worried about market shifts over the course of 18 months. The people who will inhabit this place aren't as exposed to near-term market conditions as the rest of us suckers.

I hope for some great restaurants (like the article mentioned). Love grabbing drinks and bites along the eastern edge in one of those outdoor places and more of that would be great.
That's what people said in 2006. We're due for another recession, and that did and does have an impact on the wealthy and killed condo projects. . This isn't a building for Russian oligarchs but those of us who still live in this stratosphere (especially the rental piece). Still, I'm hopeful it moves forward as planned. Great project! I'm on the list for info as I want to buy here.
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  #1607  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 3:06 AM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
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One thing I wonder about this building are the views. It's big, so you are not going to get those 360' views you get at some luxury buildings with less units per floor. But I wonder if the floors will at least have condos with some city views and some Rittenhouse views in the same condo. Hope so.
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  #1608  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 3:22 AM
City Wide City Wide is offline
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Originally Posted by UrbanRevival View Post
Per the article, Mr. Downey did pretty plainly state that "they have the money to develop it." Of course, we're not privy to private financial information, but I do get the sense that, because they're trying to make a very good impression, they're not inclined to boldly lie to a major city business publication.

That being said, I don't understand the pessimism with this latest update. Yes, it's not moving as fast as I'm sure most people would like. But there's every reason to believe that the high-end urban condo market in Philly (and especially at the primest of Center City locations) is going to be just as strong during this time next year or in early 2019, as it is now.

And if the delay means producing the most thoughtful design that they can conceive of, then that's something everyone should be on board with.

Well, as they say, the devil is in the details, and in this case the detail is what does he mean when he says they have money to develop the project. I certainly don't claim to understand what goes into paying for a $300MM project, but I'm pretty sure if they had the money, the dirt would be flying and concrete would be being poured.
It's probably a balancing act; such as maybe they can presently only raise $200MM in total for construction, so they try to see what they can build for that amount, and maybe that amount just doesn't build them something that gives them enough return on their investment, so they
keep looking. And at the same time what are their carrying costs to own this property and presently they are getting no income from their $30M investment, so as more time ticks away they have more real money spent and more money on the books spent and nothing to show for it.

This group seems like straight shooters, but as developers I think by law they speak a slightly different form of English, one where the sky is always sunny and blue, and they always have the best architects for the best site for the best project and on and on, etc. At least that's the language the public hears. If they are having trouble making the numbers work, why can't they just be honest about that? They, all developers, must think the public is as dumb as the people we elect, and maybe we are!

For kicks I went back a year (page 61) and that's just after Southern released the news that the project was being somewhat down sized. And since then the issues regarding the 3 Sansom St. properties has been fully resolved, but not much else seems to have happened. What was said in this article isn't what I would consider an "update", it's just a reporter reaching out in an attempt to find out what's going on. If there's any update its that now we know not to expect anything for another year, and in developer speak I think that actually means one year if each and every detail works out in the best possible way.

What do people think is going to be different in a year (other then the wild card of Amazon)? I realize what I think matters nothing to Southern, but right now demand seems to be strong and money is still cheap, and the sky is blue. How's it going to different and better in a year? That might be a pessimistic outlook, but I would be glad to be wrong. It's not like I'm out there carrying a placard in front 1911 claiming the end is near.

I'm disappointed, but not too surprised. There are several what appear to be very solid projects backed by real live developers that seem to be having problems getting traction. Too many projects trying to drink from the same well? Who knows. I'm just glad PMS isn't doing this project.
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  #1609  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 3:27 PM
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summersm343 summersm343 is offline
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Cool

1911 Walnut tower expects 2019 groundbreaking

Quote:
One of the last-remaining developable lots in Rittenhouse Square will remain vacant for at least another year, with the news that 1911 Walnut isn’t expected to break ground until 2019.

Developer Southern Land Company told The Philadelphia Business Journal as much, also revealing that the proposed 48- to 49-story tower will include 200 rentals and 60 to 75 condo units.

It’s the latest update for the long-awaited $300 million development—the developer’s priciest project yet—that has been years in the making and gone through a number of design iterations that have postponed construction. It has also sought approval from the Philadelphia Historical Commission to demolish the Oliver H. Bair Funeral Home building on the site.

Along with the rentals and condos, which will each have their own entrances, here’s what else is in store, according to the report:

-High-end finishes in both the rentals and condos
-Extended-stay rentals
-Indoor and outdoor pools
-Swanky fitness center
-Restaurants on Sansom and Walnut

A sales center will open up next spring ahead of the groundbreaking. Already, Southern Land Company says it has received hundreds of calls from folks expressing interest in living at the unbuilt tower.
https://philly.curbed.com/2017/12/14...groundbreaking
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