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  #3161  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2011, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by queetz@home View Post
Hear hear! I try to find news but all I see is out of topic arguing. Can a mod please end this madness already?

The argument about unions in the Vancouver Transit thread was shut down fairly quickly, and its much more civil than this (and even more relevant to that thread since transit workers are unionized). So why let this one have its pointless arguments continue?
I agree.
This thread is for the Evergreen Line; it would be better if more general discussion is taken elsewhere.
     
     
  #3162  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2011, 1:14 AM
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i saw some surveying going on north road yesterday - i wonder if its evergreen line related work they are doing...
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  #3163  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2011, 1:58 AM
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I like how the Canada Line actually shows up as red on this Evergreen Line fact sheet....the sheer illogic of not branding it as red in the first place by the SNC-Lavalin folks is beyond me.

http://www.evergreenline.gov.bc.ca/d...jectUpdate.pdf
     
     
  #3164  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2011, 9:22 PM
NucksFanInVan NucksFanInVan is offline
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Originally Posted by mr.x View Post
I like how the Canada Line actually shows up as red on this Evergreen Line fact sheet....the sheer illogic of not branding it as red in the first place by the SNC-Lavalin folks is beyond me.

http://www.evergreenline.gov.bc.ca/d...jectUpdate.pdf
Brings up an interesting branding question. When the Evergreen Line begins thru service to VCC, one can presume that the existing Lougheed-VCC millenium segment will be re-branded green on Translink mapping and the yellow millenium line trace will terminate at Lougheed. (Hopefully this much is consensus.)

So the yellow Millenium line will exist mostly parallel to Expo's dark blue with a little yellow tail at the end. Coincidentally, the Expo's dark blue will exist parallel to Millenium but with a dark blue tail. However, the Canada Line will still be shown as a single light blue line with two tails.

Will the system continue to embrace the inconsistency of having the same situation treated in two different ways? Or will it motivate a change to a dual branding of the Canada Line (dare we say it - red and light blue)? Or maybe a change to single-branding of the Expo line?
     
     
  #3165  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2011, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by NucksFanInVan View Post
Brings up an interesting branding question. When the Evergreen Line begins thru service to VCC, one can presume that the existing Lougheed-VCC millenium segment will be re-branded green on Translink mapping and the yellow millenium line trace will terminate at Lougheed. (Hopefully this much is consensus.)
Will the Millennium line no long go the entire route once Evergreen is complete? I didn't realise they will be terminating it at Lougheed. I guess I assumed the Evergreen line would be in parallel with the Millennium line, in the same way it is with the Expo line currently.
     
     
  #3166  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2011, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by simonfiction View Post
Will the Millennium line no long go the entire route once Evergreen is complete? I didn't realise they will be terminating it at Lougheed. I guess I assumed the Evergreen line would be in parallel with the Millennium line, in the same way it is with the Expo line currently.
Yep that's the plan, we've talked about that a lot here.

Running the Evergreen and Millennium lines in parallel would result in far more trains running on the track than are required to meet service needs. And it would be a scheduling nightmare when you think about how you would have to run the Mline in sync with 2 other lines.
     
     
  #3167  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2011, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BCPhil View Post
Yep that's the plan, we've talked about that a lot here.

Running the Evergreen and Millennium lines in parallel would result in far more trains running on the track than are required to meet service needs. And it would be a scheduling nightmare when you think about how you would have to run the Mline in sync with 2 other lines.
Ah right, that makes sense. I must have over-looked that somehow whilst dipping in and out of this thread.

My personal preference would be to take the same style as the Canada line. I guess this would make the Millennium line no more?
     
     
  #3168  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2011, 11:19 PM
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Various ideas have been kicked around here, but I've stopped guessing what Translink will do until there's an official announcement.

One concept:
Millennium runs 'full loop' from Waterfront via Columbia and Lougheed to VCC (same as today)
Expo shares the tracks from from Waterfront to Columbia then branches off to King George (same as today)
Evergreen shares the tracks from from VCC to Lougheed then branches off to Douglas College



A second concept:
Expo runs from Waterfront to Columbia then to King George (same as today)
Evergreen runs VCC to Lougheed then to Douglas College
'Millennium shuttle' between Columbia and Lougheed

With this concept, the Expo and Evergreen lines run as separate services, so if something happens on one of the lines causing it to be shut down, the other could still operate as normal.



Then again Translink might just rename everything to colours and terminals:

Yellow line to King George or (or Waterfront)
Blue line to VCC (or Waterfront)
Green line to Douglas College (or VCC) (or even UBC someday)
     
     
  #3169  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2011, 11:52 PM
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I feel pretty confident that on the day Evergreen line opens service will be set up as:

Expo Line: Waterfront <-> King George
Millennium Line: Waterfront <-> Lougheed
Evergreen Line: VCC <-> Douglas


I do have a feeling though that for late night service (like 10pm to close) they will (or at least should) shorten the Millennium line to be Columbia <-> Lougheed. This would allow them to run trains every 5 minutes out to King George instead of every 10 minutes. As it is today, at night, every train leaving Columbia for King Goerge is packed full, while trains leaving Columbia for M-Line are less than half. The Surrey section could use a real bump up in night service (while the system overall doesn't really need it).
     
     
  #3170  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2011, 12:23 AM
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The Evergreen RFP already made this clear. Millennium will go from Waterfront and terminate at Lougheed. The Evergreen Line will go to VCC.

Expo/Millennium will be a single two-tailed line, just like Canada Line.

(Makes me wish that Canada Line was branded as two lines... would be less confusing for occasional riders.)
     
     
  #3171  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2011, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Zassk View Post
(Makes me wish that Canada Line was branded as two lines... would be less confusing for occasional riders.)
I don't know about that. I've been on plenty of platforms when a group (2 or more) next to me are talking among themselves:

"WAIT! don't get on this train, it's a Millennium line, it won't take us to Metrotown."
"But the other train went to Surrey. Where is the train to Metrotown?"

And many other variations thereof.

Either way of labeling it will always confuse the easily confused, at least the first time.

At least the new configuration will keep people who get on the train at Brentwood labeled "Waterfront" from asking me "is this the fastest way Downtown?" That has happened to me more than once.
     
     
  #3172  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2011, 1:29 AM
NucksFanInVan NucksFanInVan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCPhil View Post
I don't know about that. I've been on plenty of platforms when a group (2 or more) next to me are talking among themselves:

"WAIT! don't get on this train, it's a Millennium line, it won't take us to Metrotown."
"But the other train went to Surrey. Where is the train to Metrotown?"

And many other variations thereof.

Either way of labeling it will always confuse the easily confused, at least the first time.

At least the new configuration will keep people who get on the train at Brentwood labeled "Waterfront" from asking me "is this the fastest way Downtown?" That has happened to me more than once.
Pros and cons to both approaches. Personally I think either could work. I just hope that they standardize Canada and Expo because right now we have the worst of both worlds, and that means that the easily confused will likely remain so.

If I had to choose I'd say call them different lines to underscore the different destinations. Otherwise the problem will get worse as one line (e.g., Waterfront <-> King George Expo or Waterfront <-> Brighouse Canada) is extended in the future and begins to dominate how people think of each line. For example, if everyone comes to understand that Expo runs from Waterfront to Langley, the Lougheed route will be reduced to a footnote. "Oh yeah, that's Expo too, just not the same Expo."

I suspect the problem with splitting the branding on the Canada Line is (a) that it's a pain for the concessionaire, who right now can sell the "Canada Line" brand; and (b) the naming was part of the negotiations around federal funding.
     
     
  #3173  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2011, 3:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCPhil View Post
I don't know about that. I've been on plenty of platforms when a group (2 or more) next to me are talking among themselves:

"WAIT! don't get on this train, it's a Millennium line, it won't take us to Metrotown."
"But the other train went to Surrey. Where is the train to Metrotown?"

And many other variations thereof.

Either way of labeling it will always confuse the easily confused, at least the first time.

At least the new configuration will keep people who get on the train at Brentwood labeled "Waterfront" from asking me "is this the fastest way Downtown?" That has happened to me more than once.
I've been at Waterfront Canada Line waiting for the train to leave, only to hear "That one is going to the airport, not Oakridge Mall" coming from the platform.


Buh-Bye!
     
     
  #3174  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2011, 3:57 AM
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Originally Posted by NucksFanInVan View Post
Pros and cons to both approaches. Personally I think either could work. I just hope that they standardize Canada and Expo because right now we have the worst of both worlds, and that means that the easily confused will likely remain so.

If I had to choose I'd say call them different lines to underscore the different destinations. Otherwise the problem will get worse as one line (e.g., Waterfront <-> King George Expo or Waterfront <-> Brighouse Canada) is extended in the future and begins to dominate how people think of each line. For example, if everyone comes to understand that Expo runs from Waterfront to Langley, the Lougheed route will be reduced to a footnote. "Oh yeah, that's Expo too, just not the same Expo."

I suspect the problem with splitting the branding on the Canada Line is (a) that it's a pain for the concessionaire, who right now can sell the "Canada Line" brand; and (b) the naming was part of the negotiations around federal funding.
Why not "Expo Line to Waterfront" or "Millennium Line to VCC" or "Canada Line to Airport";
You get both the line name and the destination together.

If someone doesn't know (or they can't figure out) that "Expo Line to Waterfront" or "Millennium Line to VCC" goes by Metrotown, there's not much we can do for them.
     
     
  #3175  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2011, 5:12 AM
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You could just explain it to them yourself.. at least, that's what I did during the Olympics.

     
     
  #3176  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2011, 7:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jsbertram View Post
I've been at Waterfront Canada Line waiting for the train to leave, only to hear "That one is going to the airport, not Oakridge Mall" coming from the platform.


Buh-Bye!
omg i know such idiots - i've been there (like vcc station) seeing people waiting for the brighouse train as the yvr airport is sitting there and they don't get on than they get on the brighouse train and get off at like broadway or oakridge people are so conditioned or stupid

and the same thing people wait for the expo line at granville say cause they wanna go to metrotown and don't think the m line will get them there
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  #3177  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2011, 8:16 AM
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A few years ago I saw someone got so pissed when he missed the EDMONDS train and had to settle for a KING GEORGE train which he think will take much longer... At least he didn't wait for the next Edmonds train since there was only 7 of them per day

By the way, do they still run those? I haven't seen them for a while...
     
     
  #3178  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2011, 5:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
Seattles LRT is currently gathering only 27 000 people a day!

Edmonton is a little closer at 93 000 but the C-line still beats it.
I remember seeing somewhere that Skytrain weekday ridership was in the 20,000s when it first opened.

And considering Edmonton is a single line with very little stations especially on the NE section and even Southgate to Heritage, their ridership is pretty good.
     
     
  #3179  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2011, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by GeeCee View Post
You could just explain it to them yourself.. at least, that's what I did during the Olympics.

I showed someone on the map that the yellow line trains and the blue line trains both went to Metrotown.

They got REALLY confused because the only trains they'd seen so far were either white or grey & blue. Where were the yellow trains?
     
     
  #3180  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2011, 1:32 AM
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There's supposed to be a new storage yard/operations & maintenance centre for the Evergreen Line, incl. in that $1.4 billion cost (apparently Burnaby is out of capacity). Does anyone know where that will be, and if it will be capable of shouldering capacity for future SkyTrain extensions (i.e. Millennium West, Surrey)? With the Evergreen Line taking over the Millenium's portion between Lougheed and VCC-Clark I'm sure it would be expandable in such way.
     
     
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