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  #161  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2006, 11:13 PM
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[QUOTE=MarkDaMan]I was depressed when the Macaroni Grill moved in downtown but don't mind Chipotle.
QUOTE]

I like the street life Chipotle has brought but I'd prefer a local burrito shop. Chipotle is McDonalds; that is their majority shareholder.
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  #162  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2006, 12:46 AM
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good to see this issue brought up, this is just an another major concern with this project.

hopefully they will keep the iconic old shelters

the new shelters proposed are just a roof hung from a single pole, no walls at all and the roof isnt even as big as the existing roofs yet these would be for both buses and light rail... more people, less shelter
were not talking about shelters out in the neighborhoods or suburbs serving one bus line.. were talking about numerous busy bus lines and two light rail lines in the heart of the region and the transit system and somehow a tiny little roof with no walls is supposed to be sufficient?
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  #163  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2006, 1:01 AM
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The PBA doesn't want us lowly mass-transit riders to be TOO comfortable in our own downtown... Wind? Rain? Snow? Suck it up! (Or get a car so you can enjoy the new auto lane!)
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  #164  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2006, 1:37 AM
PacificNW PacificNW is offline
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Mark...I agree! When I was in Portland this past Saturday I was amazed by the positive things happening downtown. I have always felt downtown PDX has a great, vibrant streetlife. Many of the shops downtown are one-of-a kind, Portland only shops....makes the city look and feel differently than other cities and malls. I do feel that a mix of national retailers do not hurt that feel and they occupy square footage many local retailers could not afford. In addition, I feel an empty store front unoccupied for months/years is not a good thing. Can you imagine if Federated/Macy's had decided not to remodel Meier & Frank?

I was reading in today's Oregononlive.com that Apple is having a difficult time getting a design for their retail store on NW 23rd past the neighborhood association. Personally, I don't think every structure that is built needs to blend in with the neighborhood. I think we end up with too much repetitive architecture. That is one aspect of the Pearl I dislike. I liked Apple's original proposal and not so much the changes they are making to appease the neighborhood. Their flagship store in downtown NYC is so simple/clean in design...something along the same line would be good for Portland. I wished I was still there so I could voice my opinion, as a resident, in support of Apple.

Last edited by PacificNW; Jun 14, 2006 at 1:52 AM.
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  #165  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2006, 5:16 AM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
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Oh, our downtown street life is about 3 times more vibrant than when I first moved here three years ago. Particularly at night... lots of crowds, people going to bars and clubs, etc... and most are normal people, so it definitely makes it feel safer than it used to be.
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  #166  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2006, 5:17 AM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
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brandon, we have a local burrito chain 1 block to the east called "cha cha cha." However, I know about 6 people who have gotten food poisoning from this authentic mexican restaurant, and I can't go back after their meat tasted like manure last time I went...

But its usually pretty tasty. Vegetarian dishes are fine, tho.
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  #167  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2006, 4:02 PM
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Quote:
Chipotle is McDonalds; that is their majority shareholder
Supposedly McDonalds is divesting of its Chipotle shares by the end of 2006. Steve Ells, founder and CEO has always retained control of company decisions (well at least their marketing team will have you believe that). In any case...I love me some Chipotle Burritos, and I agree, they added a ton a vibrancy to their downtown corner. They also have an amazing Green Building in the Lloyd...
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  #168  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2006, 8:22 PM
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Subway?

I was messing around on the internet and found this:
http://userfs.cec.wustl.edu/~adj1/max/subway.htm
I don't know who this guy is and it just seems like some guy that got a crazy idea that will never happen but he raises some intresting points. How hard would it be to put the streetcar on the planned downtown bus mall and run the max underground.
Here is the master plan:
http://userfs.cec.wustl.edu/~adj1/max/plans/plan1.htm
More detailed master plan:
http://userfs.cec.wustl.edu/~adj1/max/plans/plan2.htm

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  #169  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2006, 12:05 AM
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National retailers on the mall?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificNW
...all with mostly national/international retailers.
one problem with the national retailers is that many want more contiguous square footage than the old, mostly quarter block or less, buildings on the mall can offer. It would be better in my opinion to try to attract the national retailers to new buildings constructed on any number of remaining full and half block surface parking lots in our city.

Last edited by SKgottime; Jun 22, 2006 at 4:35 AM.
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  #170  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2006, 1:31 AM
PacificNW PacificNW is offline
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I have never stated that Portland should demolish downtown for National Retailers. The size of blocks and "existing" buildings are preventing many National Retailers from locating to downtown PDX. Saving the Meier & Frank Building with Macy's is a good thing, IMO. The same goes for the Galleria Building with Crate and Barrel moving in. A local, home grown operation wouldn't survive in that amount of square footage (with the exception of Columbia Sportswear, etc.) Nordstrom doesn't count because they are considered a National Retailer, right?
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  #171  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2006, 4:30 AM
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^ is c&b really going in to the galleria? seems like i first heard about it months ago - here - and nowhere else.
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  #172  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2006, 5:01 AM
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I have also read about C & B somewhere other than the postings here but I don't remember where...probably the Oregonian.
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  #173  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2006, 5:04 AM
SKgottime SKgottime is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificNW
I have never stated that Portland should demolish downtown for National Retailers.
...Ditto, I have never said that either.

Quote:
The size of blocks and "existing" buildings are preventing many National Retailers from locating to downtown PDX.
Sort of what I said above.


Quote:
Saving the Meier & Frank Building with Macy's is a good thing, IMO.
Agreed!

Quote:
The same goes for the Galleria Building with Crate and Barrel moving in. A local, home grown operation wouldn't survive in that amount of square footage (with the exception of Columbia Sportswear,
...or the exception of Powell's, or Rejuvenation Hardware, or even Kitchen Kaboodle- all local I think. But really my point ...why not incent developers to build space compatible to the national retailers on parking lots like that whole block directly to the north of the Galleria. With the Crate and Barrel there and an opportunity to redevelop the 3/4 block to the west, you'd have the type of synergy those national retails look for, wouldn't you?

Last edited by SKgottime; Jun 27, 2006 at 4:48 PM.
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  #174  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2006, 3:02 PM
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Quote:
I have also read about C & B somewhere other than the postings here but I don't remember where...probably the Oregonian.
it was actually in the Tribune, I'm thinking Phil Stanford. I've recently heard that was called off though...we will see, these national chains don't say shit until their sign is on the wall.
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  #175  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2006, 3:30 PM
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http://www.oregonlive.com/news/orego...130.xml&coll=7

TriMet approves concept of eastside streetcar loop

River crossing - In the initial plan, the Portland Streetcar would go over the Broadway Bridge

Thursday, June 29, 2006
JAMES MAYER
The Oregonian
A plan to extend the Portland Streetcar across the Willamette River to create a loop through the east side cleared a big hurdle Wednesday with TriMet's approval of the concept, the choice of streetcar as the best way to provide the service and the initial alignment.

Under the "locally preferred alternative," the streetcar would go over the Broadway Bridge and then on the one-way couplet of Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard and Grand Avenue. The line would initially terminate at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry, although the plan calls for it to eventually cross the river at the south end of the loop on a yet-to-be-determined new bridge.

"We have agreement in the community about what this should look like, and that's no mean accomplishment," said Chris Smith, chairman of the streetcar's citizen advisory committee. "Now we can start on the harder conversations."

Those tough conversations include where the money would come from to build and operate the eastside streetcar and how it fits into the galaxy of other transit projects that don't have funding.

TriMet, which would probably serve as the agency that applies for federal money for the project, still has reservations, including traffic impacts and worries that a cost-benefit analysis for the streetcar won't pass federal scrutiny.

And Milwaukie officials made clear they fear the streetcar will eclipse their long-awaited light-rail line. "We have been waiting for our turn, and we feel abandoned," said state Rep. Carolyn Tomei, D-Milwaukie.

The city expects light rail on McLoughlin Boulevard to be next in line after adding light rail on Interstate 205 to the Clackamas Town Center and the downtown Portland transit mall. Construction on that project will begin next year.

TriMet General Manager Fred Hansen said that the agency can afford to operate one new large project in the next decade or so if TriMet provides the operating revenue. Historically, TriMet has borne all the costs of running MAX, leaving little room to operate both light rail to Milwaukie and the eastside streetcar. TriMet pays two-thirds of the westside streetcar.

George Passadore, TriMet board president, noted that Clackamas County voters rejected property taxes for the Milwaukie line in the past. "We're going to have to be convinced that the public is ready to tax themselves," Passadore said.

Milwaukie Mayor Jim Bernard said his city's demographics have changed and residents now want light rail.

Smith said the streetcar and the Milwaukie light rail projects are linked because both need a new Willamette River crossing.

The westside streetcar was built without federal money, but its nonprofit board wants to apply under a new federal "small starts" program for the eastside line.

Hansen said the project faces an uphill battle because current federal rules reward transit projects that provide longer trips and don't give credit for the "trip not taken" as a result of new housing sparked by the streetcar route.

"We think it's a wonderful investment, but we don't think it measures well under the federal standard," he said.

James Mayer: 503-294-4109; jimmayer@news.oregonian.com



©2006 The Oregonian
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  #176  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2006, 7:26 PM
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These are excellent quotes, it is good to see our burban counterparts realizing the good in urban concepts.


"And Milwaukie officials made clear they fear the streetcar will eclipse their long-awaited light-rail line. "We have been waiting for our turn, and we feel abandoned," said state Rep. Carolyn Tomei, D-Milwaukie."


"Milwaukie Mayor Jim Bernard said his city's demographics have changed and residents now want light rail."
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  #177  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2006, 8:06 PM
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Bus changes set for rail project
Thursday, June 29, 2006
The Oregonian

TriMet unveiled its final plan Wednesday for relocating bus routes off Portland's downtown transit mall during the two-year construction of the light-rail project, set to begin in January 2007.

Under the updated plan:

17 bus routes will move to Southwest Third and Fourth avenues.

Seven bus routes will move to Southwest Columbia and Jefferson streets.

One route, the No. 14 (Hawthorne), will come into downtown on the Hawthorne Bridge, run on Southwest Second Avenue and cross outbound on the Morrison Bridge.

Frequent service on the No. 9 (Powell) will be extended to the Union Station area to connect with Amtrak and Greyhound. Night service on the No. 9 (Powell) will be added between Southeast 98th Avenue and Union Station, running every 15 minutes until about 10 p.m., seven days a week.

The No. 77 (Broadway/Halsey) will run in front of Union Station.

Two routes will be "interlined" or combined with other lines as they go through downtown. The No. 1 (Greeley) will become the No. 35 (Greeley) and continue through downtown as the No. 35 (Macadam). The No. 40 (Mocks Crest) will become the No. 44 (Mocks Crest) and continue through as the No. 44 (Capitol Highway).

The 8.3-mile Green Line project will add light rail to Southwest Fifth and Sixth avenues between Union Station and Portland State University, and between the Gateway Transit Center and Clackamas Town Center along Interstate 205. Buses will return to the mall in spring 2009, with light rail opening six months later. -- James Mayer
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  #178  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2006, 6:39 AM
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I'm starting to think that this proposed MAX line to Milwaukie really makes the most sense (and only sense) if it goes all the way to Oregon City and not just Milwaukie. Yes it will be much more expensive but it will also be a lot more useful and therefore much more popular with voters and riders if built. The Westside MAX line was originally only planned to go to Willow Creek/185th but it was decided that taking it all the way to Hillsboro made the most sense especially with respect for TOD. The two most ambitious light rail lines (Westside MAX and Eastside MAX) are the most successful. Eventhough Westside MAX was expensive at $900 million, its extremely popular and useful, much more so than Airport MAX or Interstate MAX and likely I-205 MAX. Also worth noting is that the first and most ambitious version of the South/North MAX line was approved by OR voters... the less ambitious versions of South/North MAX were not approved.

Light Rail to Oregon City has been talked about for over 3 decades, in fact it was supposed to be the very first new Light Rail line in North America. McLoughlin Blvd is apparently the busiest bus route in the system.

If this line is going to be built, do it right and go all the way to OC or dont do it at all.
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  #179  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2006, 3:25 PM
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^I want to see it go to OC too, but I'd rather get it out to Milwaukie, increase Rapid Bus service from OC to the new line, and build support, and money, to extend it all the way out. The Westside MAX should go to Forest Grove, and now the residents in Cornelius and Forest Grove are willing to pay something to get it out that far. Troutdale and Mt. Hood CC, and the residents in that area also want their line extended. I think the same would go for Oregon City but currently I'm not sure there is enough support, out that far, to get it built with some community paid support.

As for the Interstate line, the plans to get it out to Vancouver, down State Rt 500, and eventually back over to Parkrose is extremely ambitious, but it could take another 50 years to build. It would be tragic if they waited to build it all at once and the Interstate line wouldn't exist, nor would the planning stages have begun to get it out to DT Vancouver.

I really am all for baby steps if we can't make huge leaps.
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  #180  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2006, 3:35 AM
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http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/...97420191023800

Council set to extend east-side renewal

Additional millions, streetcar loop, affordable housing emphasized
By Jim Redden

The Portland Tribune, Jul 3, 2006

The City Council is poised to initiate a series of major and controversial changes to Portland’s central east side over the next two weeks.

A majority of the council has indicated it plans to support two measures that will increase public spending in the Central Eastside Urban Renewal Area by $51 million over the next two decades, helping to fund a new streetcar loop and laying the groundwork for the construction of up to 4,000 new homes.

“Council approval means the east side will grow with the rest of the city,” said Tim Holmes, a professional photographer who chairs the Central Eastside Industrial Council, a coalition of area business owners that advises the Portland Development Commission – the city’s urban renewal agency – on projects in the area.

Not everyone supports that amount of additional spending, however. Debbie Aiona, a member of the League of Women Voters of Portland, said $50 million is too much.

“That level of spending will change the character of the neighborhood. It will lose the industrial feel we are trying to preserve,” said Aiona, who served on a citizen advisory committee that worked on the plan.

The council is scheduled to vote on the streetcar project Wednesday. It will take on the spending increase July 13 in the form of an amendment.

Milwaukie-area state Rep. Caroline Tomei, a Democrat, fears the streetcar project will take public money away from a southern light-rail extension that has been discussed for years. As planned, it would connect downtown Portland to Milwaukie over a new bridge across the Willamette River.

The streetcar route expected to be approved by the council – formally known as the Eastside Transit Alternative Analysis Locally Preferred Alternative – stretches from Northwest Portland across the Broadway Bridge to the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry along Grand Avenue and Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard. The construction cost is currently estimated at $169 million. Congress has been asked to fund 60 percent of the project.

“I’m not anti-streetcar, but those of us who live in and around Milwaukie have been promised light rail for a long time, and we don’t want to see another project taking priority over the funds,” said Tomei, who plans to testify before the council votes Wednesday.

Commissioner Sam Adams defended the increased spending and streetcar loop as in the best interests of the entire region. He noted that around 1 million new people are expected to move to the Portland area over the next 25 years.

“We need to be able to create jobs and housing in existing urban areas. The central east side could be the next Pearl District or South Waterfront,” he said.

Affordable housing wanted
The citizen advisory committee had recommended spending an additional $35 million in the area. Tomei said that is more than the League of Women Voters thought was justified, but she went along with the plan in the spirit of consensus. But when the plan first went before the council two weeks ago, Adams offered an amendment increasing the spending by around $15 million. Commissioners Randy Leonard and Erik Sten supported the amendment, while Mayor Tom Potter and Dan Saltzman voted no.

Adams defends the increase as necessary to ensure that many units of affordable housing will be included in the new home construction.

“The committee’s recommendation would have spurred redevelopment, but it would not have prevented the area from simply being gentrified. I want to make sure that we are also able to build housing for the people who live in the area,” he said.

Adams also is confident that sufficient funds will eventually be found to build both the new streetcar loop and the light-rail extension to Milwaukie.

“We don’t have enough money to do everything we want to do right now, but we need to take the long-term view and look at raising money from a variety of sources over time,” Adams said.

The Central Eastside Urban Renewal Area was created by the council nearly 20 years ago. It runs from the east side of the Willamette River to Southeast 12th Avenue between Interstate 84 and the Ross Island Bridge. Approximately $48 million in urban renewal funds has already been spent in the area on street improvements, building rehabilitation, and loans to existing and new businesses and nonprofit organizations.

Many projects considered
The urban renewal designation is set to expire in August. The citizen advisory committee has spent months discussing whether it should be extended to raise more urban renewal funds – and, if so, how much and for what projects. The committee eventually identified a number of projects it thought justified extending the area, including reconfiguring East Burnside and Northeast Couch streets to improve traffic flow and remodeling the former Washington-Monroe High School into a community center.

Urban renewal districts use the property taxes generated by increased land values to finance bonds to pay for improvements within their boundaries. The League of Women Voters has traditionally opposed extending urban renewal areas beyond their 20-year lifetimes because other local governments – including counties and school districts – need the money. Aiona said she believes the expected council increase goes too far.

Holmes said the improvements bought with the additional $15 million – including the streetcar loop and affordable housing units – will greatly improve the liability of the neighborhoods for everyone who lives and works there, now and in the future.

jimredden@portlandtribune.com
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