Tsawwassen First Nation Updates

[bardak]

Big plans for the Tsawwassen First Nation

Tsawwassen First Nation unveils new neighbourhood plan

The Tsawwassen First Nation is moving closer to a major residential development.

At an open house Thursday at the TFN Recreation Centre, a new neighbourhood plan for land near the Tsawwassen ferry terminal was unveiled.

The land involved is about 110 hectares (270 acres) in an area designated by the TFN as enterprise and community within its overall land use plan.

According to a draft of the neighbourhood plan, 1,684 residential units would be built, including detached homes (50 per cent), townhouses (35 per cent) and apartments (15 per cent). Once completed, they would increase the population on the reserve by 4,381 people[...]

http://www.vancouversun.com/business...876/story.html

Link to plan
http://www.tsawwassenfirstnation.com...rhood_Plan.pdf

[jlousa]

I know similar plans have been floated by other First Nations in the past but there hasn't seemed to be too many that have materialized. I think it's a good idea, but it will be a hard sell. People are nervous with living on native soil where legal status is murky on what rights they have and what recourse is available to them. With commercial development it's much less of an issue as we aren't talking about peoples homes. Wish them good luck though.

[bardak]

I know similar plans have been floated by other First Nations in the past but there hasn't seemed to be too many that have materialized. I think it's a good idea, but it will be a hard sell. People are nervous with living on native soil where legal status is murky on what rights they have and what recourse is available to them. With commercial development it's much less of an issue as we aren't talking about peoples homes. Wish them good luck though.

Yeah this is just a initial proposal and there is still a lot stuff to be sorted out before they start building but I think the fact that they have a modern treaty puts them ahead of other bands.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I know similar plans have been floated by other First Nations in the past but there hasn't seemed to be too many that have materialized. I think it's a good idea, but it will be a hard sell. People are nervous with living on native soil where legal status is murky on what rights they have and what recourse is available to them. With commercial development it's much less of an issue as we aren't talking about peoples homes. Wish them good luck though.

OTOH, the Tsawwassen FN has had quite a bit of success with residential development to date:

1. Stahaken - A higher end residential subdivision comprising ~100 homes along northwest Tsawwassen/English Bluff constructed during the 1980's with 99-year leaseholds. They have never had problems with resale and the subdivision is well maintained;

2. Tsatsu Shores - A condominium complex at the base of Tsawwasen Beach constructed during the 1990's (visible from Ferry Causeway) also with 99-year leaseholds; AFAIK, they have never had problems with resale either.

[Millennium2002]

The proposal to me seems okayish... but some aspects need to be corrected. For example, while closing off the road to the TFN shoreline road may divert away traffic that would normally use the TFN as a shortcut, it also may impact the commutes of local residents. Therefore, I wonder if keeping the road as is with some road calming measures may help instead.

In addition, I find it extremely strange that they want to actually create a "main road" through the proposed community through a series of several roads connected by intersections. Would it make more sense from a logical and traffic perspective to have only one main road through the community rather than designate several connected roads as such?

In addition, a few places look like if the roads are essentially wiggling around the current developments, and I wonder if it's possible to straighten them out a bit.

Finally, I'm not a big fan of some of their proposed townhouse forms... essentially they're creating something that will automatically favour car traffic and that doesn't take into account the possibility that TransLink can expand its current TFN shuttle service.

[Locked In]

Big retail project possibly in the works for the TFN lands:

Major retail project proposed for Tsawwassen First Nation lands
Band signs deal to develop 175 acres into shopping and office space
The Delta Optimist April 8, 2011


METRO VANCOUVER - The TFN Economic Development Corporation has entered into a memorandum of agreement with a pair of development companies to build 1.8 million square feet of shopping and office space.
The economic development arm of the Tsawwassen First Nation announced Friday it has inked deals with Ivanhoe Cambridge and the Property Development Group to develop up to 70 hectares (175 acres) of TFN land.

"This exciting project has the potential to become one of British Columbia's signature shopping locations," a TFN press release stated.

The land, situated along the north side of Highway 17 near the Tsawwassen ferry terminal, was received by TFN as part of its 2009 treaty.

...
Hartman noted that Ivanhoe Cambridge's part of the project would comprise 1.2 million square feet as a destination retail and entertainment centre. Tentatively named Tsawwassen Mills, it would follow the success of CrossIron Mills, north of Calgary, which opened in 2010, and Vaughan Mills, north of Toronto, which opened in 2004.

Source: Vancouver Sun

I've never been to CrossIron Mills or Vaughan Mills. The photo on CrossIron Mills' website looks a bit grim:



Also from that website:

The gravel required to complete the roads and the parking lots required a dump truck every three minutes for 10 hours per day for 100 straight days.

Impressive!

[SpongeG]

interesting

"mills" malls are like malls without traditional anchors - ie no dept stores - they have a mix of outlet, factory and concept stores and than lots of entertainment things

being on the ferry route will be good for it, good luck to them

[idunno]

When this does go in, I really hope it isn't anything like CrossIron Mills, but due to the fact that it's on Native land, I really don't know how much control the city would have over what style of retail it'll take. Vancouver has never seen anything like it - think of Lansdowne Mall but X10.

[LeftCoaster]

It is going to be a Mills mall. It will be exactly like Crossiron or Vaughan Mills mall.

Terrible terrible things.

[vanman]

Oh god, why? This is going to absolutely destroy traffic in Delta and Ladner. Horrible urban sprawl. On the positive side it will actually be pretty convenient for me being within close proximity to Deltaport.

[Stingray2004]

This thing will never get built, IMHO. Tooooooo far from major trade market areas in an already over-built Metro retail market.

[SpongeG]

the mills malls are usually built far from towns/cities though

[logan5]

I thought malls were obsolete? There must be a better way to build shopping malls today that make them much more pedestrian friendly.
Have underground parking, and create a series of retail streets and maybe have a central plaza with food vendors. Maybe have some residential on top of the retail.

I think most people enjoy shopping along Robson and Granville a lot more than being indoors in the sterile environment of a mall.

Even though Metrotown has pretty good densities, the area has no urban feel due to that soul sucking mall. I guess they want the same in Tsawwassen.

Those parking lots are flat out depressing.

[flight_from_kamakura]

yeah, this will definitely be built, but really really depressing that it's happening. serious bummer.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

the mills malls are usually built far from towns/cities though

CrossIron Mills - located near the interchange of Hwy 2 (Deerfoot Trail) and Hwy 201 (Stoney Trail) - these are the two major freeways in Calgary that gives access to the entire Calgary Metro region;

Vaughan Mills - located near the interchange of the 400/407 freeways (and the 401) providing access to the entire GTA.

The Tsawwassen location, however, does not have freeway access to the Metro Vancouver region - just Hwy 99, albeit the SFPR might improve some connectivity - but not too much.

I still believe that it's a pipedream from an access/market/development/economic perspective.

[WarrenC12]

All I have to say is.. LOL.

At the risk of sounding offensive, I'm sure glad we've signed these treaties with the native people so they can pursue their cultural roots and control their traditional land...

[jlousa]

I don't like the plan but I don't fault them for building it, because unfortunately people will go to it.
Ideally given the area they would create a large industrial park instead, even though the lease rates would be much lower. It could provide much higher paying employment opportunities for their people if they were to require first choice employment policies.

[invisibleairwaves]

Let's look at the bright side here: Surrey's current urban planning will suddenly look a whole lot better by comparison...

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

All I have to say is.. LOL.

At the risk of sounding offensive, I'm sure glad we've signed these treaties with the native people so they can pursue their cultural roots and control their traditional land...

lolz

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

CrossIron Mills - located near the interchange of Hwy 2 (Deerfoot Trail) and Hwy 201 (Stoney Trail) - these are the two major freeways in Calgary that gives access to the entire Calgary Metro region;

Vaughan Mills - located near the interchange of the 400/407 freeways (and the 401) providing access to the entire GTA.

The Tsawwassen location, however, does not have freeway access to the Metro Vancouver region - just Hwy 99, albeit the SFPR might improve some connectivity - but not too much.

I still believe that it's a pipedream from an access/market/development/economic perspective.

yah but they aren't built in the city like oakridge or metrotown

lots of people pass it to get to the ferry, its not that far from richmond and its large asian population who seem to love these style of malls

and there is the popular splash down park in the area which is a draw itself

vancouver doesn't have freeways anyway

there was a rumour years ago that they would be build a mills mall in langley at 200th and hwy #1