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  #2281  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2012, 2:19 PM
themaguffin themaguffin is offline
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Also, if you're insinuating that "dumber" is mispelled, it's not..
I wasn't insinuating that "dumber" was misspelled.
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  #2282  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2012, 4:04 PM
Found5dollar Found5dollar is offline
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Does anyone know what happened at the public meeting on the 10th about the East Liberty Transit Center? It was to pass the TIF for the project.

Here is the meeting notice and the full TIGER IV grant application:
http://www.spcregion.org/pdf/TIP2013...NovDec2012.pdf
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  #2283  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2012, 9:24 PM
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Yeah, I read that article when it came out as well, BrianTH. You're right, I would assume that Station Square Drive and perhaps Carson would have to be passing under the stands, which would actually be pretty cool. No doubt, there's no room at all on the river side of the stadium with the trail and the train tracks already there, so the only places to be potential addition areas would be on the sides as well as the main stands looking out at downtown...

Aaron (Glowrock)
Cantilevering seating over Carson Street and/or Station Square Blvd would be bold and very outside-the-box for Pittsburgh, which is the kind of thinking this city could use!
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Originally Posted by Found5dollar View Post
Does anyone know what happened at the public meeting on the 10th about the East Liberty Transit Center? It was to pass the TIF for the project.

Here is the meeting notice and the full TIGER IV grant application:
http://www.spcregion.org/pdf/TIP2013...NovDec2012.pdf
I would love for this project to come to fruition. East Liberty is already in the midst of a renewal, and this will only kick it into high gear.
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  #2284  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2012, 10:37 PM
Private Dick Private Dick is offline
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Another weird indication of how separated the Pittsburgh region is...

Pittsburgh has never embraced soccer at the youth, high school, college, or pro level.

The South Hills (Heidelberg, Beadling/Scott, Castle Shannon, Mt. Lebanon, Canonsburg, among others) is soccer central, boasting some of the earliest organized soccer history in the US. It's no wonder the Riverhounds have played at Char Val -- that's where the fans are.
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  #2285  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2012, 10:50 PM
daviderik daviderik is offline
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Wyndham director says hotel will take opportunity to do the addition 'right'

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...-right-665951/





Article pretty much says that it has been 5 1/2 years since the start of the project and It won't be finished till March of 2013 because they are expanding the renovation.

also speaking of S'Liberty....

Is once-grand Pittsburgh church an opportunity or is it doomed?
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...doomed-666018/
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  #2286  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2012, 11:13 PM
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Evergrey Evergrey is offline
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The South Hills (Heidelberg, Beadling/Scott, Castle Shannon, Mt. Lebanon, Canonsburg, among others) is soccer central, boasting some of the earliest organized soccer history in the US. It's no wonder the Riverhounds have played at Char Val -- that's where the fans are.
Interesting.
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  #2287  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2012, 1:38 AM
Private Dick Private Dick is offline
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Interesting.
Yeah, the South Hills has an interesting history all its own, apart from Pittsburgh, in many ways. European immigrant miners rather than millworkers, for the most part.

Beadling was founded in 1898 (I played for their youth club teams back in the 80s!)

Some history about the Heidelberg club:

http://www.heidelbergsoccer.com/hist...75/soccer.html

Soccer football was introduced to Heidelberg in the early 1900s. A group of Heidelberg boys, barely past their school age, organized a team to play in the Junior League. They bought their uniforms (green and gold) and all the equipment. The team played in the Junior League for two seasons, after which they entered the Keystone Senior League (the miner’s league).

In order to compete in the senior league some changes were made. A manager was appointed and several senior players were added to the team. The new Heidelberg team made fast strides, both in the league and in the National Amateur Challenge Cup Competition.

On Saturday, May 14, 1927 the Heidelberg team was the first Western team to win the National Trophy by defeating the Eastern champions, the La Flamme Cobblers of New Bedford, Mass. on the Westinghouse High School field by the score of three goals to one.

On May 5, 1929 the Heidelberg team returned the trophy to Heidelberg by defeating the German Sports Club of Newark, New Jersey on their home grounds by the score of nine goals to zero.

The United States Football Association honored the Heidelberg team by selecting a Heidelberg player, Berk Jones, to be a member of the United States Olympic soccer team for the games to be played in Germany.

The Heidelberg soccer team often made the newspaper headlines, and they named the team the Golden Tornados and termed Heidelberg the Soccer Capitol of the USA.

The soccer team, in addition to winning the U.S. National Amateur competition, also won many local trophies. The loyalty of the Heidelberg fans was evident in the large numbers attending all their games. The people of Heidelberg were united in their support of the team.
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  #2288  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2012, 2:54 AM
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Jonboy1983 Jonboy1983 is offline
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Originally Posted by daviderik View Post
Wyndham director says hotel will take opportunity to do the addition 'right'

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...-right-665951/





Article pretty much says that it has been 5 1/2 years since the start of the project and It won't be finished till March of 2013 because they are expanding the renovation.

also speaking of S'Liberty....

Is once-grand Pittsburgh church an opportunity or is it doomed?
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...doomed-666018/
I would love for that church to remain. You don't see architecture like that too much anymore. If it must go, it is sitting on land that is ripe for redevelopment.

I said that on my facebook page in response to the post-gazette article.

Regarding the Wyndham Grand, I cannot wait for that to fully open in March!
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  #2289  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2012, 2:38 PM
JDG JDG is offline
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http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...o-buncher.html

City Council has voted to approve the variances for the Buncher development in the strip. Appears this is just a preliminary step. They have not decided on the TIF yet. Apparently Councilman Dowd, who strongly opposes the Buncher development, chairs the body that control TIFs.

The variance requires a 70 foot setback. A "compromise" between the 50 feet that were previously required and the 95 feet that many were hoping to see.

I don't know whether to be sad that we're getting mediocre development or happy that we're getting development at all....
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  #2290  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2012, 2:47 PM
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Originally Posted by JDG View Post
http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...o-buncher.html

City Council has voted to approve the variances for the Buncher development in the strip. Appears this is just a preliminary step. They have not decided on the TIF yet. Apparently Councilman Dowd, who strongly opposes the Buncher development, chairs the body that control TIFs.

The variance requires a 70 foot setback. A "compromise" between the 50 feet that were previously required and the 95 feet that many were hoping to see.

I don't know whether to be sad that we're getting mediocre development or happy that we're getting development at all....
Depends on the negotiations involved in granting the TIF to Buncher, really. I think the City Council probably did the right thing in approving the overall variances, quite frankly. A 70 foot setback from the river should be more than enough for a decent riverwalk/public ROW along the river as well as to protect the area from any riverbank collapse concerns. The TIF is a whole different ball of wax entirely, and I think the City Council needs to put a LOT of pressure on Buncher in terms of the overall design, square footage, building footprints, access, architecture, etc., of the overall project before granting the TIF at all.

Aaron (Glowrock)
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  #2291  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2012, 3:11 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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Random collection of comments:

(1) I like what the addition has done to the look of the former-Hilton/Wyndham (to me it now looks sort of like a sailboat from some directions, which is cool), and I am fine with them taking their time to make sure it looks well-integrated on the inside;

(2) I'm a bit disappointed City Council isn't insisting on more of a setback, but on the other hand I am fine with the compromise allowing pedestrian/bike access but not car access on the cross streets;

(3) A couple pages of great pictures of St Peter and Paul here:

http://www.preservationphoto.com/stpeterpaul.html

Hopefully the reuse study comes back with some good news. I know there have been a lot of residential conversions of former churches recently, and if that isn't economically viable quite yet, I would hope the property could be mothballed for a while until that time comes;

(4) Soccer is pretty popular in the East End as well, and I am personally planning on taking our soccer-playing kid to some Riverhounds' games along with some of his soccer-playing buddies. The new stadium's location, both in terms of convenience and also the views and proximity to other Downtown-area amenities, makes that a far more appealing notion, and I suspect that will be true for a bunch of other families.
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  #2292  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2012, 3:50 PM
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Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
Random collection of comments:

(1) I like what the addition has done to the look of the former-Hilton/Wyndham (to me it now looks sort of like a sailboat from some directions, which is cool), and I am fine with them taking their time to make sure it looks well-integrated on the inside;

(2) I'm a bit disappointed City Council isn't insisting on more of a setback, but on the other hand I am fine with the compromise allowing pedestrian/bike access but not car access on the cross streets;

(3) A couple pages of great pictures of St Peter and Paul here:

http://www.preservationphoto.com/stpeterpaul.html

Hopefully the reuse study comes back with some good news. I know there have been a lot of residential conversions of former churches recently, and if that isn't economically viable quite yet, I would hope the property could be mothballed for a while until that time comes;

(4) Soccer is pretty popular in the East End as well, and I am personally planning on taking our soccer-playing kid to some Riverhounds' games along with some of his soccer-playing buddies. The new stadium's location, both in terms of convenience and also the views and proximity to other Downtown-area amenities, makes that a far more appealing notion, and I suspect that will be true for a bunch of other families.
Can you go into more detail about the lack of car access on cross streets in the Buncher development?
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  #2293  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2012, 4:41 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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Can you go into more detail about the lack of car access on cross streets in the Buncher development?
Not much in terms of actual details, but what I was referring to was this article:

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...romise-666145/

Quote:
Gated streets in Buncher Co.'s Riverfront Landing project would have to provide through-access for pedestrians and bicyclists, under zoning legislation that received a preliminary nod from city council Wednesday despite Councilman Patrick Dowd's call for much wider public access to the Allegheny River.

Mr. Dowd had demanded that Buncher develop the 55-acre Strip District site in accordance with the Allegheny Riverfront Vision Plan and the Allegheny Riverfront Green Boulevard Plan, which stress the importance of public access to the riverfront. Mr. Dowd, who will represent the Buncher site under a coming reapportionment of council districts, wanted to strike gated streets from Buncher's plans.

Council President Darlene Harris introduced a compromise: access on gated streets for pedestrians and bicyclists making their way to and from the river.
Personally, that sounds fine to me, assuming the pedestrian/bike access is automatic (e.g., they don't have to ask a guard to lift a gate for them or something like that). I really don't care about cars being able to drive to the river, and in fact I kinda like the idea of making this a pedestrian/bike zone with only locals permitted to drive in (I've seen similar arrangements in a lot of historic European town centers and such).
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  #2294  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2012, 4:45 PM
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Ah... so it's still a gated community directly adjacent to Downtown. This is garbage development, BrianTH. GARBAGE!
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  #2295  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2012, 4:59 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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Ah... so it's still a gated community directly adjacent to Downtown. This is garbage development, BrianTH. GARBAGE!
I can't tell if you are being serious, but assuming you are . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gated_community

Quote:
In its modern form, a gated community is a form of residential community or housing estate containing strictly-controlled entrances for pedestrians, bicycles, and automobiles, and often characterized by a closed perimeter of walls and fences.
So once you allow pedestrians and bicycles free access, it is no longer a "gated community." Thus I would suggest this entry becomes more relevant (note many of the places listed do allow limited car access, sometimes explicitly for locals):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_car-free_places
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  #2296  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2012, 5:15 PM
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I don't have a problem with the 70' setback, in fact I wouldn't have a problem with a smaller setback. As long as there is room for a walking trail and parklet I'm happy. To me the issue is not the setback, but the design of the access and buildings. I for one think it would be cool to have buildings cantilevered over the river. Setting them back so far almost gives it a suburban feeling.
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  #2297  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2012, 5:36 PM
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Originally Posted by markson33 View Post
I don't have a problem with the 70' setback, in fact I wouldn't have a problem with a smaller setback. As long as there is room for a walking trail and parklet I'm happy. To me the issue is not the setback, but the design of the access and buildings. I for one think it would be cool to have buildings cantilevered over the river. Setting them back so far almost gives it a suburban feeling.
Agreed. The setback isn't an issue for me either... and in fact a gigantic setback could... as you say... contribute to a "suburban" feel like the North Shore. Unfortunately, this has been the main issue in the media which is distracting from the true problems with Buncher's proposal.

The small U-shaped buildings with surface parking fronting the river... the inappropriate density... generic architecture and indifference toward the urban context... lack of civic design... and especially GATED streets... are the elements I have an issue with.
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  #2298  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2012, 6:17 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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The Allegheny Riverfront Vision materials went into detail about why they were recommending the relatively wide setbacks. Their main arguments were of the "green" sort, mostly relating to water management and providing habitats for wildlife. I understand some people don't care much about such things, but in addition to the inherent merits of taking such issues seriously, doing so is also good branding for cities aspiring to attract younger, better-educated residents and workers. And in fact I would suggest the attitude that generous greenspace automatically reads as "suburban" reflects an increasingly outmoded conception of "urban".
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  #2299  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2012, 6:32 PM
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Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
The Allegheny Riverfront Vision materials went into detail about why they were recommending the relatively wide setbacks. Their main arguments were of the "green" sort, mostly relating to water management and providing habitats for wildlife. I understand some people don't care much about such things, but in addition to the inherent merits of taking such issues seriously, doing so is also good branding for cities aspiring to attract younger, better-educated residents and workers. And in fact I would suggest the attitude that generous greenspace automatically reads as "suburban" reflects an increasingly outmoded conception of "urban".
I'm not the one supporting this garbage gated community which still has 70' setbacks (with 75' in some places thanks to the "pressure" of Darlene Harris). This gated community violates so many urban design principles... and will do nothing to enhance Pittsburgh's ability to attract " younger, better-educated residents and workers".
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  #2300  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2012, 8:58 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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and will do nothing to enhance Pittsburgh's ability to attract " younger, better-educated residents and workers".
Oh sure it will. The Cork Factory and various other nearby projects have demonstrated the appeal of multi-unit housing in the Strip to that demographic, so a bunch more housing consciously modeled on the Cork Factory is very likely to succeed to that end.

And they certainly aren't going to be driven away because random cars can't drive to the river on these streets.

That said, I do worry 70-75 feet is not enough to create a really nice and effective riparian zone.
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