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View Poll Results: Which of the designs would you like to see become the new Lansdowne 'Front Lawn'?
Option A: "One Park, Four Landscapes" 12 11.88%
Option B: "Win Place Show" 23 22.77%
Option C: "A Force of Nature" 14 13.86%
Option D: "All Roads Lead to Aberdeen" 16 15.84%
Option E: "The Canal Park in Ottawa" 18 17.82%
None of the above. Please keep my ashphalt. 18 17.82%
Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1861  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2012, 2:16 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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This has been debated to death. The courts have ruled. It is time to move on. I can't wait for construction to begin.
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  #1862  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2012, 3:42 AM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
This has been debated to death. The courts have ruled. It is time to move on. I can't wait for construction to begin.
Your right; let's get on with. It's not perfect, but it's a million times better that a parking lot.

Besides, there's no use arguing with delusional compulsive liars.
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  #1863  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2012, 4:20 AM
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Originally Posted by alecz_dad View Post
Dear JamSandwich,

I'm WAITING... No luck finding that view?

Too bad they just can't keep the visuals up-to-date.
I already found you three in that report; they're just not the exact one I'm looking for. Also, you can notice that the layout is still the same, so any visuals will really just be further concepts as the plan develops.

EDIT: Found it, you impatient, compulsive, lying troll.


Source: http://www.ottawasun.com/news/ottawa.../14145091.html

Also, the following demonstrates that height along Holmwood is not really going to be a problem.


Source: http://www.ottawa.ca/en/city_hall/pl...plan/index.htm
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Franky: Ajldub, name calling is what they do when good arguments can't be found - don't sink to their level. Claiming the thread is "boring" is also a way to try to discredit a thread that doesn't match their particular bias.

Last edited by Jamaican-Phoenix; Jul 1, 2012 at 4:36 AM.
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  #1864  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2012, 5:45 AM
alecz_dad alecz_dad is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
This has been debated to death. The courts have ruled. It is time to move on. I can't wait for construction to begin.
Throughout this process there has been a desire to prevent any real debate about whether OSEG's proposed development scheme is actually something that people in Ottawa actually want, or to seriously consider the concerns of those who critique the plan.
Instead, it's all "let's get 'er done," "something's better than nothing," "acres of asphalt," etc.

Remember the so-called consultations (really just show-and-tells with OSEG shills wearing City nametags); the only reason that they actually acceded to having Q&As was because at the first session at Lansdowne, local residents got fed up with being fed a line of crap and got out a megaphone to demand that City and OSEG reps explain and justify their plans.
Those residents should have been lauded by critics and supporters of the OSEG plan alike, because they forced them to have Q&As at the following open houses. Instead they were vilified for being Glebe hotheads.

But I really do think that far from simple reflexive NIMBYism, the resistance to the OSEG juggernaut has been as much a result of a sense that the plan is something that sprang fully-formed from the smoke-filled backrooms of Ottawa golf courses and Monaco restaurants, rather than something that reflects the broad desire of the residents of Ottawa, and has been arrived at through a genuine process of visioning and consultation.

Hannah Arendt, the German-born political philosopher, captured this when she wrote:
"Opinions are formed in a process of open discussion and public debate, and where no opportunity for the forming of opinions exists, there may be moods -- moods of the masses and moods of individuals, the latter no less fickle and unreliable than the former -- but no opinion."

Is there actually an opinion that has been formed amongst Ottawa residents through reasoned debate about this issue? I would argue, no. There are indeed moods; key among them a mood of annoyance and impatience towards a vocal opposition that continues to contest the plan that has been so masterfully framed and promoted by OSEG and the City's well-resourced spin-meisters.
"Why can't they just get out of the way?" "They hate football!" "They're just a bunch of whining elitist, NIMBY, Glebe crybabies!" etc.

Alongside this mood is the one that says "I really like the idea of the CFL returning to Ottawa." For many of these folks, who may or may not belong to the first group, they see little beyond the promise of the first kickoff. For the price of the few million dollars they paid to secure rights to an Ottawa CFL franchise, OSEG bought themselves a solid-gold rationale to justify why the City should pay hundreds of millions to spruce up Frank Clair Stadium and build an underground parking garage, so OSEG can field a team, while the City turns over a third of the site for commercial development for $1 a year.

Another mood is one of ambivalence or resignation. A sense from people not directly affected by the redevelopment plans, that although they aren't adamantly FOR the plan, they really don't know all the details, and besides, it's not in their backyard, and, well, don't those pretty drawings from OSEG look much nicer than what is there now (i.e. "sea of asphalt"), so, "what's the harm?" and "what's all the ruckus about?" "It's going to happen anyway, so why stand in the way?" I think this is really the dominant mood amongst the largest group of Ottawa residents. Neither really for, nor against the plan. But hardly a ringing endorsement.

The final mood is that of the critics. They have used a multitude of tactics and approaches to undercut the legitimacy of the OSEG scheme: questioning the plan's financials, transportation expectations, impact on heritage, questionable process, etc. But fundamentally, they are opposed to the plan because of its direct impacts on them and their communities (yes, Not In My BackYard), but as importantly, because they feel their concerns have been systematically marginalized in the public discussion, that they have been made powerless, and that the only way to try to perhaps affect tangible change, but as importantly, to feel that they have not simply stood idly by when something they think is wrong-headed has been allowed to pass, is to resist, to critique, to debate, and to contest.

I would say that given those diverse groups, that there really has never been a clear concensus of opinion on this plan.
Indeed, never in any of the public opinion polling done around the plan for Lansdowne was there a hands-down majority of respondents who said: "Yes, I support allowing private developers to build a shopping centre on public land at Lansdowne Park, and for City taxpayers to fund hundreds of millions of dollars of expenditures, in support of a privately-held sports franchise, and for tax revenues from those commercial properties to fund the City's debt service on its borrowing."

Some have said that the last municipal election was a de facto referendum, supporting the City's planned partnership plan with OSEG. But this was really not the case. Jim Watson was elected, not as an ardent supporter of Lansdowne Live (indeed he was rather coy about it during the campaign), but rather as a repudiation of the embarrassing term of Larry O'Brien, the Mayor instrumental in greasing the skids for a Lansdowne deal. Surely this could be said to be a "no" vote.

Another argument is that since some opponents to Lansdowne on Council were defeated, that this was due to the electorate punishing them for their positions on Lansdowne, and that the re-election of pro-OSEG councillors was an endorsement of their support by their ward electors.
Again, anyone who knows about local politics knows that rarely are there any particular city-wide ballot questions in individual councillors' races. Instead, most win because the small proportion of the electorate that bother to vote actually recognize their name, and because they spent the previous three years appearing at every charity BBQ or other community event they could, so as to cultivate a friendly image.

To close, a few other quotes on the value of debate to decision-making:
“Freedom is hammered out on the anvil of discussion, dissent, and debate.” -Hubert H. Humphrey (38th Vice-President of the United States)

“It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.” -Joseph Joubert (French Essayist and moralist, 1754-1824)

“Honest differences of views and honest debate are not disunity. They are the vital process of policy making among free men.” -Herbert Hoover (31st President of the United States)

The actions of critics of the Lansdowne scheme may well ultimately have been futile, but isn't it more important that there are still individuals in society who have such strong convictions about a matter as this that they volunteer, donate their own money and stand up to speak truth to power? Or do we really want to just want to be able to sit back and have our circuses, or in this case our football games, uninterrupted by annoying questioning voices?
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  #1865  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2012, 5:51 AM
alecz_dad alecz_dad is offline
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Unhappy

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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Your right; let's get on with. It's not perfect, but it's a million times better that a parking lot.

Besides, there's no use arguing with delusional compulsive liars.
Delusional? Perhaps.

Liar? I must disagree. Please elaborate?
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  #1866  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2012, 6:11 AM
alecz_dad alecz_dad is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix View Post
I already found you three in that report; they're just not the exact one I'm looking for. Also, you can notice that the layout is still the same, so any visuals will really just be further concepts as the plan develops.

EDIT: Found it, you impatient, compulsive, lying troll.

Also, the following demonstrates that height along Holmwood is not really going to be a problem.
Sorry, that's from a 2010 release. Weren't you the one raking me out for selectively picking images to suit my argument? I hardly think a two year-old pretty picture of how the edge on Holmwood might look has much bearing, when the goalposts keep moving all the time.

By that token, here, from the same report, how about the pic that still shows the tall condos atop the commercial buildings?



...It's still not clear to me what form Minto's condos are going to take. Will they all be in those transparent towers? If so, then why don't they flesh them out so we can see what they are proposing? They're already hyping them


...I guess assuming that the usual sheeple will plunk down for a condo sight unseen. I wonder if the coming condo real estate correction and changes to lending rules might be putting some cold water on their plans.

As for along Holmwood, I don't see how your picture says anything useful. The plan is still to have a very intensive edge, opposite a quiet, residential edge. Who really knows what it will look like, since we continue to be kept in the dark about the latest iterations of the architecture. All we know is that it involves obliterating the rest of Sylvia Holden Park, in favour of Crate & Barrel. Really? That's progress for you!
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  #1867  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2012, 7:57 AM
alecz_dad alecz_dad is offline
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One of the best comparisons I can think of the the planned commercial buildings proposed by OSEG at Lansdowne are those at The Shops at Don Mills in Toronto.

Although not necessarily ugly, they do seem to be typically soulless, and the setting, amidst tiny, spindly saplings and lots of cars parked on surface roads (but scant few pedestrians, cyclists or itinerant balloon sellers, as seen in OSEG's video) probably gives a fair view of what the "new Lansdowne" will look like for the better part of a generation.
N.B. None of these images are mine, but are culled from Flickr (it's like being there!)

Enjoy













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  #1868  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2012, 2:28 PM
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Someone also once said (might have been a German philosopher), "Opinions are like assholes - everyone has one."

As for French Revolution-era quotes on decision making, I'm legitimately regretting opening up this thread to read.
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  #1869  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2012, 2:59 PM
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Originally Posted by alecz_dad View Post
One of the best comparisons I can think of the the planned commercial buildings proposed by OSEG at Lansdowne are those at The Shops at Don Mills in Toronto.

Although not necessarily ugly, they do seem to be typically soulless, and the setting, amidst tiny, spindly saplings and lots of cars parked on surface roads (but scant few pedestrians, cyclists or itinerant balloon sellers, as seen in OSEG's video) probably gives a fair view of what the "new Lansdowne" will look like for the better part of a generation.
N.B. None of these images are mine, but are culled from Flickr (it's like being there!)

Enjoy













I called you a liar because you used the 2010 designs to demonstrate the height over Holmwood.

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Originally Posted by alecz_dad View Post
Seamless seems like a bit of an overstatement. I would say more like, overpowering to the surrounding neighbourhood

...but also banal enough that no tourist in their right mind would want to come see it.
When in reality, after negotiations with community groups, they ended up with this design with much lower buildings (not the same angle, but you get my point. Also, you can see the Empire theatre in the back with the step down design to Holmwood, similar to recent buildings on Sparks such as the CBC);


Source: [url]http://www.ottawa.ca/en/city_hall/planningprojectsreports/construction/projects/lansdowne_construction/stage2_siteplan/index.htm[/ur]


As for the towers on Bank, they aren't that tall; 10-14-20 floors is pretty acceptable, even for the Glebe. We still don't know what they will look like (probably not transparent), but I have faith that Minto will do a good job based on their work such as Minto Metropole and a few projects in TO.

Finally, congratulations on coming up with something that is actually similar to what Lansdowne will look like. Don Mills is a much better representation than the big box stores you previously posted. That being said, you need to add historic buildings, more urban appeal, less parking, stadium/arena crowds and a big ass park to Don Mills before you get Lansdowne.
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  #1870  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2012, 4:41 PM
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At the end of the day speculation on appearance is irrelevant. The hard numbers of almost 850,000 sqft of GLA ( roughly double Billing Bridge for example ) with no major road artery is an insurmountable problem. Also by example BB has over 1,500 free parking spaces, on the surface with multiple entry and exit strategies. The current LPP has roughly 1,300 spaces, but underground, limited entry and exit, paid parking, and over half are committed to tenants and residents. Double the size of BB with half the parking and no artery. The reality will hit within a few months when final documents are released.

Signs of panic at the City are already apparent with City Manager Kent Kirkpatrick trying to shuffle debt load from the LPP to the parks and recreation and parking budgets (Jon Willing Ottawa Sun June 26, 2012) and looking for sponsors to fund the light tower and 400 foot digital wall (Jon Willing Ottawa Sun June 27, 2012).

The City knows they cannot make the project look reasonable and are, to be gentle, reaching.

Gets back to the basic issue of two major components that need to change 1. scale 2. benefit to the public. How this is done will be interesting. New partners are a distinct possibility, and ones that offer less than half the GLA but with more parking and greater benefit to the taxpayer, local small business and tourism.

The overall priority is FIFA 2015 and the benefit such a prestigious event will mean four our nations capital. A less ambitious and more realistic plan needs to be realized and soon.
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  #1871  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2012, 4:45 PM
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Originally Posted by concernedottawa View Post
At the end of the day speculation on appearance is irrelevant. The hard numbers of almost 850,000 sqft of GLA ( roughly double Billing Bridge for example ) with no major road artery is an insurmountable problem. Also by example BB has over 1,500 free parking spaces, on the surface with multiple entry and exit strategies. The current LPP has roughly 1,300 spaces, but underground, limited entry and exit, paid parking, and over half are committed to tenants and residents. Double the size of BB with half the parking and no artery. The reality will hit within a few months when final documents are released. Signs of panic at the City are already apparent with City Manager Kent Kirkpatrick trying to shuffle debt load from the LPP to the parks and recreation and parking budgets (Jon Willing Ottawa Sun June 26, 2012) and looking for sponsors to fund the light tower and 400 foot digital wall (Jon Willing Ottawa Sun June 27, 2012).

The City knows they cannot make the project look reasonable and are grabbing at anything.

Gets back to the basic issue of two major components that need to change 1. scale 2. benefit to the public. How this is done will be interesting. New partners are a distinct possibility, and ones that less than half the GLA but with greater benefit to the taxpayer local small business and tourism. The overall priority is FIFA 2015 and that benefit such a prestigious event will mean four our nations capital.
The funny thing is some that don't support this project are hurting there own cause there saying the area can't support this many people but flip around and say it should be something for everyone meaning more traffic.
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  #1872  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2012, 5:45 PM
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Originally Posted by concernedottawa View Post
At the end of the day speculation on appearance is irrelevant. The hard numbers of almost 850,000 sqft of GLA ( roughly double Billing Bridge for example ) with no major road artery is an insurmountable problem. Also by example BB has over 1,500 free parking spaces, on the surface with multiple entry and exit strategies. The current LPP has roughly 1,300 spaces, but underground, limited entry and exit, paid parking, and over half are committed to tenants and residents. Double the size of BB with half the parking and no artery. The reality will hit within a few months when final documents are released.

A less ambitious and more realistic plan needs to be realized and soon.
There is a major road artery; it's called Bank St. And a second barely used artery; Queen Elizabeth Driveway.

That being said, there will be traffic problems, no doubt about it. Hopefully, as soon as they realize it (year one?), they will seriously look at rapid transit for Bank street (prediction is that they will ask NCC to use the QE parkway for LRT, NCC will say no, they will study it anyway, and end up with either a Bank streetcar (BACK TO THE FUTURE) or subway).

As for a "more realistic plan", that’s not possible; we've already cut the parks features to end up with half the cost, the stadium will be the smallest in the CFL and we are only doing the minimum renos to the Civic centre.

The only way it could be "more realistic" would be to renovate what we have now (10000 seat bleachers?) and leave the parking lot.
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  #1873  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2012, 7:22 PM
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More realistic is very possible. It is called less scale, greater benefit to taxpayer.

New partners will be required for the management side.

Think City owned facility.

Last edited by concernedottawa; Jul 1, 2012 at 8:16 PM.
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  #1874  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2012, 7:33 PM
concernedottawa concernedottawa is offline
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The funny thing is some that don't support this project are hurting there own cause there saying the area can't support this many people but flip around and say it should be something for everyone meaning more traffic.
The project of developing the site has wide support. This isn't about not supporting development or not supporting this plan. Like it or not the current plan simply will not work. It makes no financial sense for the public landowner and the public who want to use the site ( logistically or financially ). You can have greater public access if you don't add so much density. Lower servicing requirements and, simply, more space/less density does in fact allow more people and less density means you have more options to move them. Keeping the park publicly owned with a new management partner group will provide greater returns and a better arrangement for the taxpayer.
.

Last edited by concernedottawa; Jul 1, 2012 at 8:25 PM.
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  #1875  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2012, 8:12 PM
jaydog0212 jaydog0212 is offline
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The project of developing the site has wide support. This is not about not supporting development or not supporting this plan. The current plan simply will not work. It makes no financial sense for the public landowner and the public who want to use the site. You can have greater public access if you don't add so much density. The reason is you have less servicing requirements and, simply, more space. Less density does in fact allow more people and less density means you have more options to move them. Keeping the park publicly owned with a new management partner means you can have greater returns on the park and a better arrangement for the taxpayer.
What concerns me is there are some that want to turn it into a central park to do that you would be looking at on the low side $200 million plus this that want that park want no fees so no revenue just for keep up you would be talking miillions of dolllars each year.
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  #1876  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2012, 8:32 PM
concernedottawa concernedottawa is offline
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What concerns me is there are some that want to turn it into a central park to do that you would be looking at on the low side $200 million plus this that want that park want no fees so no revenue just for keep up you would be talking miillions of dolllars each year.
Central Park is not possible since that model relies on massive amounts of wealthy sponsors which NY has many of. The current P3 format for this site is the way to go. A revenue model is needed. But there are many interested management groups who will provide the service of managing the site for a much better yield to the City than what is currently being offered ( which is peanuts ). Better rates means less density. Less density means a better functioning site and a site more inclined to be a destination which in turn is superior for tourism.
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  #1877  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2012, 10:01 PM
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Central Park is not possible since that model relies on massive amounts of wealthy sponsors which NY has many of. The current P3 format for this site is the way to go. A revenue model is needed. But there are many interested management groups who will provide the service of managing the site for a much better yield to the City than what is currently being offered ( which is peanuts ). Better rates means less density. Less density means a better functioning site and a site more inclined to be a destination which in turn is superior for tourism.
No matter how you cut it a new arena and stadium are needed.
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  #1878  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2012, 12:20 AM
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No matter how you cut it a new arena and stadium are needed.
Naturally with a stadium and renovated arena. But you work backwards with relation to density to make the site better.

Example, calculate how much you have to spend for the stadium and arena. Class A stadiums will go for roughly $4,000 per seat. But you are only adding a 12,000 seat structure on the South Stands so $48M. The North Stands and arena are already there so the heavy work is done on that side, but you need to rip out the concrete add raker beams for re-inforcement, new code angles and steps and seating for the second 12,000 seats leaving you with a liberal $2,500 price per seat, or $30M ( including causeways, bathrooms locker rooms, concessions, retail, etc...) Add another $10M for the arena which is in need of a new roof, corporate seating etc... All in stadium/arena is in the $88M range.

Park area is 16 acres. Calculate 1/2M per acre or $8M ( an acre is roughly 200 x 220 feet ).

Now you have to calculate how much density you will need to support financing $100M (rounded) to renovate the site.

Your financing costs on $100M are going to be $160M (rounded) on a 25 year mortgage or $6.4M per year. According to the City running the stadium is $3.7M per year and maintenance on the park is $2M per year.

Total expenses now are the mortgage, and expenses totalling $12.1M for the first 25 years, but then drops to $5.7M in year 26 ( present day numbers) since you no longer have to pay the annual $6.4M mortgage.

There are expected revenues from the stadium/arena of $2.9M per year. The City has also said that $112M are the avoided costs over 30 years but the mortgage is for 25 so for ease of math you spread it out over 25 giving you a further reduction of $4.48M annually. So you need to make a net revenue of roughly $12.1M less stadium arena revenue of $2.9M less $4.48M avoided costs giving you $4.72M per year to make up by lease space.

If you net $25 per sqft on lease space then you need 188,000 sq ft GLA to make the park self sufficient until year 26 when the $6.4M annual mortgage is paid off at which time you are making that amount in profit.

Most of the square footage is already there. If you have to build anything you keep it low scale and finance accordingly. At most you would need to add 50,000 sqft of new retail space, which at most would be say another $23M financed. ) $300 per sqft x 50,000 sqft = $15M which becomes roughly $23M financed )

This would add roughly $900K per year or a new net of a $5 per sqft increase in lease space or net $30 per sq ft.

The LPP is adding close to 850,000 sqft of GLA when the break even point is 188,000 sqft.

You can quickly see the waste for the taxpayer and the massive profits for the developers.

You can also see why new management will easily offer a much better arrangement and a much better scaled retail model that fits into the local business area and tourism.

Last edited by concernedottawa; Jul 2, 2012 at 1:21 AM.
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  #1879  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2012, 10:34 PM
concernedottawa concernedottawa is offline
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Addendum to previous post.

As mentioned the break even square foot requirement for the Lansdowne Park site is 188,000 sqft.

The current development group is adding 850,000 sqft giving you an idea of the massive profits that will be taken out of the site.

New SQFT Break Even Point lowered by adding parking revenue

The 188,000 sqft break even level did not include parking revenue.

According to the City and the Price Watherhouse Coopers report ( paid for by Graham Bird of OSEG/City ignoring of course conflict of interest legislation that prohibits consultants working for the City and vendor at the same time ) there are to be 1370 parking spots ( down from the current 2,400 ). Only 660 however will be available to the public, the rest are reserved for private spots. Revenue on those 1,370 spots will be $2.1M or $1,500.00 per spot per year. These spots are underground at a cost of roughly $40,000.00 per spot. Underground parking is needed since you have added so much density.

Underground parking wasteful and not needed with lower density

Now consider the previous post that calculated you needed 188,000 sqft to break even. You will still need parking, but add 1,200 spots or roughly half the amount of parking spots that exists there now. Half of the current parking is replaced with grass and trees, as is required, and the rest is converted outdoor surface parking.

Those spots are already there, so no significant cost for resurfacing.

New Break Even Density is 104,000 sqft when you add parking revenue

Each spot will bring in according to the City, $1,500 per year. On 1, 200 spots that is an additional revenue stream of $1.8M.

Calculations

Your new break even point for square footage is now:
-$6.4M mortgage ( 25 years )
-$3.7M stadium/arena
-$2.0M park maintenance
= $12.10M total cost
less $ 2.90M stadium/arena revenue
less $ 4.48M avoided costs revenue
less $ 1.80M parking revenue
= $2.60M needed from lease revenue

At $25 per sqft Net, you will need to add 104,000 sqft.

There is currently 104,000 sqft already available on the site right now.

If the City knocks down the two Coliseum Buildings ( Red Brick Building of roughly 16,000 sqft and long newly renovated arena area of roughly 24,0000 sqft for a total of roughly 40,000 sq ft ) that would need to be replaced and financed by adding $5 Net per sqft to to pay for it.

Benefit for the City, sport fans and taxpayers

What this means for the City and patrons is that the park can be developed in superior scale ( less density requirements),
- with better parking ( on the surface and 1 parking spot for every 86 sqft of density instead of the developers underground - parking with 1 spot for every 620 sqft )
- better parking and less density means less traffic congestion
- a site that pays for its own loan in 25 years ( no taxpayer cost )
- and a site that will yield an annual surplus of over $4M per year starting year 26.

Conclusion

Quite simply a stadium at the site will work, and be great for tourism but on a scaled site with 104,000 sqft of restaurants, shops, boutiques and under new management.

A stadium on the site with a multi tower/condo, high density development of 850,000 sq ft will be out of scale, greater traffic issues, less attractive for tourism ( who need ease of access and enjoyment of scale ) and not attractive for the local taxpayer or to sport fans.

This is not to say that the high density development will be lost. Not in the least. It will simply relocate. And the LRT corridor is where it is all happening, as confirmed by the other topics in this forum.

Taxation dollars arrive in many forms, and tourism is a huge one to pin down, and it is there, provided you scale back the density.

Leave the high density development tax dollars for the rapid transit corridor.

Bring on the stadium with sensible development, greater public use and greater tourism taxation dollars at the Lansdowne Park site.

New management groups are ready and waiting to help this city.

Last edited by concernedottawa; Jul 7, 2012 at 2:56 AM.
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  #1880  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2012, 10:46 PM
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waterloowarrior waterloowarrior is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2005
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-Where are these numbers from? Altus? CBRE? OSEG's proforma? Seems pretty exact...
-What conflict of interest legislation prohibits consultants working for the City and vendor at the same time when they are partnering together on a project?
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