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  #21  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 8:56 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
Which ones there are being funded with 0% local financing?
All the GO projects with the exception of Union Station redevelopment. This includes the $10+ billion GO electrification plan. All the LRT lines being built in the GTA are to be owned, funded and operated by Metrolinx. The deal that Ottawa got was horrendous.
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  #22  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 8:59 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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In what way?
The city builds traffic sewers. At least the NCC has parkland and MUPs around their traffic sewers.
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  #23  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 9:00 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
All the GO projects with the exception of Union Station redevelopment. This includes the $10+ billion GO electrification plan. All the LRT lines being built in the GTA are to be owned, funded and operated by Metrolinx. The deal that Ottawa got was horrendous.
I totally agree. We got screwed each time so far with the largest percentage coming from local property taxpayers. This is one of the reasons why our remaining bus system is in a shambles.
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  #24  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 10:45 PM
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Gat-Train Gat-Train is offline
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Rather than making a Greenbelt 2, I'd actually prefer a plan to replace the existing Greenbelt with a Greenbelt 2 through land swaps.

In the west, sell off the land between Barrhaven/Kanata and Nepean, and use the money to buy up all the land separating Barrhaven & Kanata from Richmond, Manotick, and Carp for a new Greenbelt. That way, we build up the suburbs to be closer to each other instead of extending further outwards. There's so much land in this part of the Greenbelt that it could basically mean the southern and western limits of the urban boundary are not extended again for a century or more.

In the south and the east, however, this is harder to do because much of the Greenbelt lands are undevelopable anyway (due to the airport exclusion zone and Mer Bleue). However, some smaller scale swaps might be possible. In the east, sell off the Greenbelt lands north of the 174 and use the money to extend the Greenbelt to include some of the rural areas between Orleans and Navan. (That actually helps Mer Bleue by keeping Orleans further away from it). In the south, sell off the area between Blossom Park and Findlay Creek and use the money to buy up the land between Findlay Creek/Riverside South and Greely.

Because the sold off Greenbelt land would be more valuable than the land making up the new Greenbelt 2, we could actually have a net increase in the amount of protected land. And we could trade in simple farmland for the opportunity to protect lands like the wetlands between Kanata and Carp. Not to mention, makes the city grow closer together instead of further apart. Win-win-win.
I don't like the idea of giving up existing greenbelt, with the possible exception of the area around Eagleson and Moodie, which is ripe for some TOD following the LRT extensions. Also the area around Hurdman needs development.
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  #25  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 11:00 PM
CityTech CityTech is offline
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I don't like the idea of giving up existing greenbelt, with the possible exception of the area around Eagleson and Moodie, which is ripe for some TOD following the LRT extensions. Also the area around Hurdman needs development.
Thing is, every spot of land in the Greenbelt is just one more spot of land on the fringes of Barrhaven and Stittsville that is turned from farms or nature to houses. Land is going to be used up for the growth of the city, and putting it between existing urban communities makes a lot more sense than expanding outwards.
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  #26  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 2:59 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Originally Posted by Gat-Train View Post
I don't like the idea of giving up existing greenbelt, with the possible exception of the area around Eagleson and Moodie, which is ripe for some TOD following the LRT extensions. Also the area around Hurdman needs development.
We may wait forever to see Hurdman fully redeveloped having been a garbage dump. That is why that strip of land from Brewer Park to Dow's Lake along Bronson has never been developed other than roads, parking lots and sports fields.
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  #27  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 4:59 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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The city builds traffic sewers. At least the NCC has parkland and MUPs around their traffic sewers.
That just generates lots of additional vehicle-miles worth of emissions.
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  #28  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 2:38 PM
passwordisnt123 passwordisnt123 is offline
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Originally Posted by CityTech View Post
Thing is, every spot of land in the Greenbelt is just one more spot of land on the fringes of Barrhaven and Stittsville that is turned from farms or nature to houses. Land is going to be used up for the growth of the city, and putting it between existing urban communities makes a lot more sense than expanding outwards.
That's not true. Urban sprawl happens because city hall wants it to happen. It's the city that authorizes the expansion of the urban boundary. It's the city that grants permits. It's the city that says where and when those suburban developments happen. The fact that some land is being reserved from development by the greenbelt doesn't mean that an equal parcel of land somewhere else will invariably be used for development. Intensification is a real thing that can and is often used as an alternative to more and more shitty sprawl.
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  #29  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 3:00 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
That just generates lots of additional vehicle-miles worth of emissions.
An inefficient congested road system generates unneeded emissions. So, if we look at from an emissions point of view, we should not wish this city to reach gridlock in order to force people onto transit. Transit should stand on its own merits, something that it has not been achieving lately.
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  #30  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 4:18 PM
CityTech CityTech is offline
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Originally Posted by passwordisnt123 View Post
That's not true. Urban sprawl happens because city hall wants it to happen. It's the city that authorizes the expansion of the urban boundary. It's the city that grants permits. It's the city that says where and when those suburban developments happen. The fact that some land is being reserved from development by the greenbelt doesn't mean that an equal parcel of land somewhere else will invariably be used for development. Intensification is a real thing that can and is often used as an alternative to more and more shitty sprawl.
Intensification is real but it will never amount to 100% of our new construction unless the city's growth slows down considerably.
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  #31  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 9:00 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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The city can continue to grow; there just need to be tighter constraints on the form that growth takes, starting with the basics of street layout, transportation hierarchy, and especially land use regulation. It's not just intensification of existing areas; new ones have to be built having shattered the post-war orthodoxy into tiny pieces.

So far, we still ain't doing much of that.
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