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  #81  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 6:50 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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There are three main reasons why Canadian caucasians might immigrate to the USA:

1. To attend a US university often because of a scholarship and then stay
2. Working in a multi-national that promotion requires a move to the USA
3. Working in an industry (example entertainment) where maximum success is dependent on moving to the USA

Generally Canadians are very satisfied with their country including the politics, social welfare system, education system and employment benefits. For most Canadians, there is not a great attraction to move south of the border.
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  #82  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 8:36 PM
Handro Handro is offline
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
That isnt how it works

the NHS will bill their home country if possible, the NHS is not "extended" to all EU citizens that is not true.
You're partly right. Since EU countries offer healthcare to their citizens, member countries can issue health insurance cards to their citizens to be used when traveling to other EU countries.

These are services offered to people who are not in EU countries:

Quote:
Some NHS services or treatments are exempt from charges so that they're free to all (although prescription, dentistry and other charges may still apply).

These include:

accident and emergency services – not including emergency treatment if admitted to hospital

family planning services – this does not include termination of pregnancy or infertility treatment

treatment for most infectious diseases, including sexually transmitted infections (STIs)

treatment required for a physical or mental condition caused by torture, female genital mutilation (FGM), domestic violence or sexual violence – this does not apply if you have come to England for the purpose of seeking that treatment

Furthermore, there are certain categories of people who are exempt from charges.
https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/nhs...omic-area-eea/

Are you still operating under the impression that the EU is made up of states in the same way the US is? If so, you are grossly misinformed.
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  #83  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 12:08 AM
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The us offers low taxes, a diversified economy, challenging and rewarding work for people with a lot of skills and human capital, a cheap cost of living outside of the coasts , nice scenery, good weather, good schools (if you live in middle class areas)

People with ability don’t care about (most) social services

If anything the Indians I know really appreciate the meritocracy in the us. It would nearly impossible for a major corporation in Austria or France to be lead by someone from a developing country
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  #84  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 1:52 AM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post

People with ability don’t care about (most) social services
Well, social services are precisely for people who need them, it's not for Elon Musk or Bill Gates.

The way people speak here, it seems every American/US immigrant is in their way to become a billionaire.
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  #85  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 2:17 AM
isaidso isaidso is offline
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^^ It's a myth the US uber rich feed the masses to keep the current system in place. It's a lie because the deck is heavily stacked against regular people and they know it. Unfortunately, tons of Americans get seduced by that lie.

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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post

People with ability don’t care about (most) social services
Sounds like one of those US political slogans some people eagerly latch on to but in practice society disintegrates without proper checks and balances. The affluent and privileged become more so while the rest fall further and further behind. You don't have to go far in the US to see what that looks like. Some see them as 'throw away people' but all I see is massive potential wasted; a human catastrophe. Some societies like Canada see the wisdom in rejecting that philosophy in favour of another: having as many of our citizens (ideally all of them) reach their potential.

I realize many Americans view it as outrageous that one would subsidize, give a leg up, and/or invest in marginalized people but I suppose it boils down to what kind of society you want to have. If opting for a more egalitarian juster society means we don't have an uber rich 1% I'm totally fine with it. I live on a street with multi-million dollar houses, middle class condos, and social housing one next to the other. Some of those people on assistance won't ever become successful and productive while others will. That's ok. I don't need social services but see first hand how important they are. I'm not the only prospering person who thinks so either.
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Last edited by isaidso; Nov 15, 2019 at 2:43 AM.
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  #86  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 2:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Handro View Post
That would suggest that the 'American Dream' hasn't died it's just moved north of the border to Canada. 150 years ago, Europeans emigrated en masse from a continent of rich land owners/people with title in search of opportunity across the pond. The US back then was an incredibly egalitarian place where you could make something of yourself if you just worked hard and/or had talent. Today in the US it's no longer about working hard/ability (although some will obviously succeed that way) but about being born into wealth. In Canada, if you're more twice as likely to climb out of poverty.
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  #87  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 2:51 AM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
^^ It's a myth the US uber rich keep feeding the masses to keep the current system in place. It's also a big lie.

Sounds like one of those US political slogans some people eagerly latch on to but in practice society disintegrates without proper checks and balances. The affluent and privileged become more so while the rest fall further and further behind. You don't have to go far in the US to see what that looks like. Some see them as 'throw away people' but all I see is massive potential wasted; a human catastrophe. Some societies like Canada see the wisdom in rejecting that philosophy in favour of another: having as many of our citizens (ideally all of them) reach their potential.

I realize many Americans view it as outrageous that one would subsidize, give a leg up, and/or invest in marginalized people but I suppose it boils down to what kind of society you want to have. If opting for a more egalitarian juster society means we don't have an uber rich 1% I'm totally fine with it. I live on a street with multi-million dollar houses, middle class condos, and social housing one next to the other. Some of those people on assistance won't ever become successful and productive while others will. That's ok. I don't need social services but see first hand how important they are. I'm not the only prospering person who thinks so either.
As I said, people mostly aren't and shouldn't be moving to the US to take advantage of the social safety net. they should be (and are) moving here to work and produce value in the the economy. Whether those that fall through the cracks deserve various types of support is a whole other discussion.

your other points don't really align with what modern globalized capitalism has delivered in both countries (eg vancouver, luxury-car capital of the world)

also read this:

https://economics21.org/html/does-am...rt-1-1302.html

https://economics21.org/html/does-am...rt-2-1303.html

https://economics21.org/html/does-am...rt-3-1317.html

https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...e-scandinavia/
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  #88  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 4:53 AM
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Originally Posted by yuriandrade View Post
Well, social services are precisely for people who need them, it's not for Elon Musk or Bill Gates.

The way people speak here, it seems every American/US immigrant is in their way to become a billionaire.
Most importantly, social services are for people who suffer some calamity in their lives. Like an accident, or a serious illness. I have heard some Americans say that 'those people' don't deserve services because they are lazy or what not. That may be true in some cases, but it also lumps in people who have had some misfortune through no fault of their own.
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  #89  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Most importantly, social services are for people who suffer some calamity in their lives. Like an accident, or a serious illness. I have heard some Americans say that 'those people' don't deserve services because they are lazy or what not. That may be true in some cases, but it also lumps in people who have had some misfortune through no fault of their own.
When the rate of people who are disabled has gone from somewhere around 1 in 50 to 1 in like 13...yeah we have a problem.

I know so many people who are getting disability through SS or through military service who are completely fine to work, but want the check. I also know that my best friend's dad, God rest his soul, had an extreme condition where his muscles basically were degenerating over time. He was a professor and couldn't even sit up in his office, he needed to lay down during meetings. He didn't take his very strong pain meds until he went home and was done working. Now, someone in my family is on disability. He details cars on the side to make more money. He's been living off the government now for 10 years. He gets the check because of his back...yet he can detail cars. Ok.

NPR did a story on this about 4 years ago. The government does a horrible job screening people. For the VA, they have to prove you're not disabled, the veteran doesn't have to prove anything. So if the paper pusher doesn't want to deal with a long and paperwork-heavy situation-APPROVE.
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  #90  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 12:37 PM
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Yep...

Disability is white peoples welfare

Pretty disgraceful that people misuse it
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  #91  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 3:34 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Yep...

Disability is white peoples welfare

Pretty disgraceful that people misuse it
Is welfare not white peoples' welfare?
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  #92  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 5:20 PM
Jonesy55 Jonesy55 is online now
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
That isnt how it works

the NHS will bill their home country if possible, the NHS is not "extended" to all EU citizens that is not true.
No, sorry you are not correct, there are reciprocal agreements in place within the EU, the rebilling only occurs for pensioners living in other member states.

The NHS does not bill the home country for working age citizens of EU countries resident in the UK.

Last edited by Jonesy55; Nov 15, 2019 at 5:54 PM.
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  #93  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
Is welfare not white peoples' welfare?
Stereotypically , Republicans used to blame minorities for abusing welfare .

Meanwhile white Americans are the biggest disability beneficiaries out there
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  #94  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 4:36 PM
Baronvonellis Baronvonellis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yuriandrade View Post
Well, social services are precisely for people who need them, it's not for Elon Musk or Bill Gates.

The way people speak here, it seems every American/US immigrant is in their way to become a billionaire.
Yea, you have a better chance of being struck by lighting or winning the lottery as becoming a billionaire in the US. That's what the rich tell to the masses to keep the current system, that everyone can move up in the US.

Have you guys seen all the immigrants from Mexico and central America, the first thing they do is sign up for social welfare when they come here.
The PHD immigrants from India coming here are the exception to the masses of low skilled immigrants.

Have you seen small towns in Illinois or Indiana lately? It's sad how small towns have gone to shit, when I go though them I see tons of addicts with heroin needle marks these days. The opioid crisis is a huge cancer in America, that no one seems to care about. These people aren't becoming the next Elon Musk anytime soon, and are the ones getting on disability in massive numbers in the last 10 years. It's caused by the lack of social mobility in society, where large masses of people feel like they have no future.
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  #95  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 5:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Baronvonellis View Post
Yea, you have a better chance of being struck by lighting or winning the lottery as becoming a billionaire in the US. That's what the rich tell to the masses to keep the current system, that everyone can move up in the US.

Have you guys seen all the immigrants from Mexico and central America, the first thing they do is sign up for social welfare when they come here.
The PHD immigrants from India coming here are the exception to the masses of low skilled immigrants.

Have you seen small towns in Illinois or Indiana lately? It's sad how small towns have gone to shit, when I go though them I see tons of addicts with heroin needle marks these days. The opioid crisis is a huge cancer in America, that no one seems to care about. These people aren't becoming the next Elon Musk anytime soon, and are the ones getting on disability in massive numbers in the last 10 years. It's caused by the lack of social mobility in society, where large masses of people feel like they have no future.
The amount of stupidity in this post is mind boggling.
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  #96  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 6:28 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Stereotypically , Republicans used to blame minorities for abusing welfare .

Meanwhile white Americans are the biggest disability beneficiaries out there
What is your source? The data I've seen suggests the complete opposite. There are other things like short term and long term recipients.

It's true more white people received welfare benefits than non white people, but that's because this country is 75% white.

Quote:
Though rates of participation are higher among people of color, white people comprise the greatest number of recipients when measured by race.

Given the population of the United States in 2012 and the annual rate of participation by race reported by the U.S. Census Bureau in 2015, about 35 million white people participated in one of the six major government assistance programs that year. That's about 11 million more than the 24 million Hispanics and Latinos who participated and considerably more than the 20 million black people who received government aid.

In fact, most white people receiving benefits are enrolled in Medicaid. According to an analysis by the Kaiser Family Foundation, 42% of non-elderly Medicaid enrollees in 2015 were white. However, U.S. Department of Agriculture data for 2013 shows that the largest racial group participating in SNAP is also white people, at more than 40%.
https://www.thoughtco.com/who-really...elfare-4126592
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  #97  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 11:30 PM
Ant131531 Ant131531 is online now
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US is about 60% white if you only include non-hispanic whites(if you make hispanics it's own category, then you can't add that to the NHW population).
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  #98  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2019, 1:30 AM
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US is about 60% white if you only include non-hispanic whites(if you make hispanics it's own category, then you can't add that to the NHW population).
Whatever you want to use, your metric reinforces my previous post.

2012: 35 million whites. 24 million hispanics. 20 million blacks.
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  #99  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2019, 10:07 PM
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With automation we will need a UBI so the issue isn't so much being a moocher but how to properly manage a social safety net.
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  #100  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2019, 10:25 PM
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With automation we will need a UBI so the issue isn't so much being a moocher but how to properly manage a social safety net.
Why have currency at all. Everybody should have a human right to every service and good, right?

Everything is free. That'll work!
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