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  #1021  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2018, 3:08 AM
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New 4-5 lane bridge for Sicamous.
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  #1022  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2018, 3:14 AM
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In case anyone wants the source, here it is: https://www.kelownacapnews.com/news/...e-in-sicamous/.

I only have one word: cheap.
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  #1023  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2018, 4:06 AM
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In my opinion, I totally understand that money is limited and spending money in one place means not spending somewhere else, so we shouldn't overspend where it isn't necessary, and the projects with the most benefit should be built first, even if that means prestigious projects like the TCH have to wait.

However, I wish things were built with a better end goal in mind, so that things we build today won't need to be torn down and rebuilt in 20 years time. Rather than the pathetically weak objective of '4 laning highway 1', have the objective be a full freeway. I'd rather they wait longer to build things right than waste money on the bare minimum required in 2018.

And also, it is unfair to make BC shoulder this burden alone. The TCH is clearly a national entity, so the cost of every km should be split evenly between the provinces, rather than the province with the toughest terrain bearing the heaviest load.
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  #1024  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2018, 4:07 AM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
In my opinion, I totally understand that money is limited and spending money in one place means not spending somewhere else, so we shouldn't overspend where it isn't necessary, and the projects with the most benefit should be built first, even if that means prestigious projects like the TCH have to wait.

However, I wish things were built with a better end goal in mind, so that things we build today won't need to be torn down and rebuilt in 20 years time. Rather than the pathetically weak objective of '4 laning highway 1', have the objective be a full freeway. I'd rather they wait longer to build things right than waste money on the bare minimum required in 2018.

And also, it is unfair to make BC shoulder this burden alone. The TCH is clearly a national entity, so the cost of every km should be split evenly between the provinces, rather than the province with the toughest terrain bearing the heaviest load.
At the very least the feds knew to share the cost of KHC Phase 4. I will give them that.
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  #1025  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2018, 8:35 AM
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Also, I do agree that, unless the states decide to upgrade U.S. 97 up to the border, BC 97 south of Penticton should be left as is.
It's been a couple years, but even if US 97 isn't upgraded, but some BC 97 upgrades are needed - removed some of the direct driveway accesses, add some service roads where necessary, and upgrade to a 100 km/h standard. Between Oliver and Osoyoos it functions as both a major regional highway and a farm-to-market road. It probably doesn't need to be upgraded to 4 lanes.
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  #1026  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2018, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by dmuzika View Post
It's been a couple years, but even if US 97 isn't upgraded, but some BC 97 upgrades are needed - removed some of the direct driveway accesses, add some service roads where necessary, and upgrade to a 100 km/h standard. Between Oliver and Osoyoos it functions as both a major regional highway and a farm-to-market road. It probably doesn't need to be upgraded to 4 lanes.
Osoyoos to the 3A junction is fine as is. Making it 4 lanes would actually take away from the character of the area.

3A to the north end of Penricton 4 lane limited access (like the Lougheed Highway)

North of Penticton to UBC Okanagan, full controlled access freeway. 4 lanes except 6 lane bridge over Okanagan Lake. From Peachland to UBC completely new route.

North of UBC to Vernon, as is save for maybe one or two new interchanges.
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  #1027  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2018, 4:59 AM
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I just noticed (once again) Dawn Creek has a dedicated route around the town for dangerous goods. It’s literally called “Dangerous Goods Route”. I suppose it also serves as a bypass for Highway 2, Highway 49 and Highway 97?
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  #1028  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2019, 4:17 PM
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Proposing Solutions for TCH through Three-Valley Gap

A Revelstoke-based article expressed the concern that upgrading that stretch of TCH might be so expensive that BC will just leave it as is, even if it’s twinned from Craigellachie westward and from Revelstoke eastward.

Question: Is is viable to dig a straight 4-lane tunnel under the mountain north of the current alignment up to 23 and toll it to recover the cost? If people have already answered this question, can someone point me to the thread and the comments?

TCH should then also receive appropriate upgrades in Revelstoke.

TCH’s closed between Revelstoke and Forde Station right now, by the way.
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  #1029  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2019, 4:37 PM
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I say toll the entire thing through the mountains and use the money to do what is necessary where required. Tolling individual pieces would be needlessly complex and be unfair if that happened to be your commute.

I've always wondered why tunnels just aren't a thing in Canada. Drive through Europe and there are lots, and I can't imagine it being any more affordable to do so there.
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  #1030  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2019, 4:48 PM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
I say toll the entire thing through the mountains and use the money to do what is necessary where required. Tolling individual pieces would be needlessly complex and be unfair if that happened to be your commute.

I've always wondered why tunnels just aren't a thing in Canada. Drive through Europe and there are lots, and I can't imagine it being any more affordable to do so there.
I have always wondered this as well. It is not just Canada, the US for its population and massive freeway network also has a major relative lack of tunnels.

Where I live in Japan is not a very populated place, but it has two main expressways that I use often, one goes along the coast and the other across the island.

The first expressway, I often drive an 80km stretch of it through an area about as populated as Victoria to Courtney / Comox. Along it (I have counted) there are 20 tunnels.

The second expressway is even more amazing. I drive about a 60km stretch of it through the mountains from my region to another that has half the population of Vancouver Island. Around a solid 40km of that stretch is tunnels. Some are over 5km long and there is about a 20 km stretch where one is not in a tunnel for only about 2 or 3km (and most of those few kms are elevated on bridges over river valleys).

And it is not just the main freeways, the secondary and sometime even tertiary routes have tunnels. For example near my house there is a local road that goes straight through a hill. Not a highway, just a two lane local road.

Even with population / density factored in there are relatively waaaaay more tunnels (and elevated roads) in Japan than there are anywhere in Canada (especially since my area is essentially the Newfoundland of Japan and it is still loaded with tunnels and viaducts). Even Toronto would have far more elevated / tunnelled roads if it were in Japan for its size.
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  #1031  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2019, 4:58 PM
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Also, looking on Google Earth, it looks as if the federal government has cheeped out a bit on the first 7km of 4 lane work done through Yoho Park in BC.

Unlike in Alberta there are at grade access points. They aren't even the somewhat acceptable protected T intersections which the province builds on lower volume rural intersections.

Ugh, it is still a massive improvement of course, but now I am worried that they won't add interchanges at busier access points.

We will have to wait and see when they actually show some of their plans for the next 40km.
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  #1032  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2019, 5:05 PM
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Also, looking on Google Earth, it looks as if the federal government has cheeped out a bit on the first 7km of 4 lane work done through Yoho Park in BC.

Unlike in Alberta there are at grade access points. They aren't even the somewhat acceptable protected T intersections which the province builds on lower volume rural intersections.

Ugh, it is still a massive improvement of course, but now I am worried that they won't add interchanges at busier access points.

We will have to wait and see when they actually show some of their plans for the next 40km.
So Parks Canada's finally done with the first 6 (or 7) km into Yoho Park? That's the impression I got from your comment.
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  #1033  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2019, 5:14 PM
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Yeah it's done, you can take look on street view.
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  #1034  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2019, 5:16 PM
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Yeah it's done, you can take look on street view.
A new street view?! That hasn't been updated for 3.5 years. Okay I definitely have to see it for myself.
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  #1035  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2019, 5:21 PM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post

I've always wondered why tunnels just aren't a thing in Canada.
Calgary has a very expensive tunnel to nowhere...
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  #1036  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2019, 6:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
I have always wondered this as well. It is not just Canada, the US for its population and massive freeway network also has a major relative lack of tunnels.

Where I live in Japan is not a very populated place, but it has two main expressways that I use often, one goes along the coast and the other across the island.

The first expressway, I often drive an 80km stretch of it through an area about as populated as Victoria to Courtney / Comox. Along it (I have counted) there are 20 tunnels.

The second expressway is even more amazing. I drive about a 60km stretch of it through the mountains from my region to another that has half the population of Vancouver Island. Around a solid 40km of that stretch is tunnels. Some are over 5km long and there is about a 20 km stretch where one is not in a tunnel for only about 2 or 3km (and most of those few kms are elevated on bridges over river valleys).

And it is not just the main freeways, the secondary and sometime even tertiary routes have tunnels. For example near my house there is a local road that goes straight through a hill. Not a highway, just a two lane local road.

Even with population / density factored in there are relatively waaaaay more tunnels (and elevated roads) in Japan than there are anywhere in Canada (especially since my area is essentially the Newfoundland of Japan and it is still loaded with tunnels and viaducts). Even Toronto would have far more elevated / tunnelled roads if it were in Japan for its size.
When I drove around Kyushu last year, it cost me around $80 CAD in tolls for about 300 km of travel (reduced to $45 CAD with an ETC for foreigners). There was lots of tunnels, and some of them were pretty long. Tunnels are expensive to build, expensive to maintain and have more safety hazards than almost any above ground solution. There's a reason they're avoided at all costs.
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  #1037  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2019, 6:29 PM
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Tunnels are expensive to build, expensive to maintain and have more safety hazards than almost any above ground solution. There's a reason they're avoided at all costs.
I’m aware of that, but for the segment through T-V-G, if BC’s averse to using the Public-Private-Partnership (P3) model, a tunnel might be the only option.

The slopes on the south side of the highway are hard to stabilize, from what I read.
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  #1038  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2019, 7:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
I’m aware of that, but for the segment through T-V-G, if BC’s averse to using the Public-Private-Partnership (P3) model, a tunnel might be the only option.

The slopes on the south side of the highway are hard to stabilize, from what I read.
So are you willing to pay a $10 toll every time you go from Revelstoke to Sicamous? I'm sure a tunneling solution isn't very feasible without something like that. The toll would probably be needed if a tunnel was done, P3 or not.
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  #1039  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2019, 7:13 PM
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So are you willing to pay a $10 toll every time you go from Revelstoke to Sicamous? I'm sure a tunneling solution isn't very feasible without something like that. The toll would probably be needed if a tunnel was done, P3 or not.
That’s exactly what I said earlier, tolls. But $10 one-way? You’d need to ask people that commute regularly through T-V-G then. I was thinking more like $4 or $5 (the cost of TCH Cobequid Pass in Nova Scotia), max at $7.50 each way.

Personally for me, as a traveller, as long as it’s no more than $25, I’ll bite the bullet and use it.
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  #1040  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2019, 7:21 PM
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What is it with BC bridges and having an odd number of lanes?
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