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  #141  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
i'm always a bit amazed at suburban toronto's appetite for tall towers. you have so many areas of SFH's and then there will be a cluster of 30+ story towers looming over the houses at the end of the street.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7708...7i16384!8i8192

that kinda things would just not ever fly in suburban chicago. i don't understand how there isn't more NIMBY push-back against it in toronto. in 99% of suburban chicagoland, highrise/skyscraper proposals are so unilaterally DOA that they are hardly ever even proposed in the first place.

across the thousands of sq. miles that constitute suburban chicagoland, there are only like 20 buildings that rise above 200', and most of those are clustered in a small handful of places like downtown evanston and schaumburg, whereas in suburban toronto you have hundreds upon hundreds (perhaps thousands?) of such buildings.

it's a really interesting phenomenon from my perspective.
It is very unique from a North American perspective (Vancouver as well). Sure there are a lot of factors, but one thing to remember is that demographics are a lot different than Chicago. Multi-generational Canadians, especially wealthy ones, remained a lot closer to the Downtown than many American cities. As immigration picked up rapidly, the massive amount of Chinese and South Asians that migrated settled in the next ring of available land, being Mississauga, Brampton, Markham, etc. So the burbs end up being dominated by demographics who are more accustomed to high-rises and density than perhaps a comparable neighbourhood in Chicago that arose out of white flight. The staunchest NIMBY neighbourhoods in Toronto are those inner-city "yellow-belt" areas like the Danforth, St. Clair, The Annex, etc. that are comprised of long-term, probably third-generation plus Canadians who like the character of a SFH neighbourhood with the proximity to downtown.

The biggest administrative difference in Toronto is the presence of the Ontario Municipal Board (OMB) which is effectively a tribunal for local planning disputes. It allows the province to balance something like implementing the green belt, with pro-development decisions that force density on local municipalities, willing or not. You'll find many criticism of the OMB, but they are effective in pushing along these monster proposals.

Lastly, highway connectivity is abysmal in Toronto compared to Chicago. The major highways have a complete East-West focus along the 401 Corridor. All that greenfield you see to the North of the city might as well be in Narnia when it comes to driving into Downtown. Pull up Google Maps and compare Toronto's setup to the amount of yellow freeway that snakes out in all directions from Chicago. We may not like freeways but it helps for housing affordability to open up those far-flung areas. I wouldn't be surprised if an equidistant exurban location in the two cities took 30 minutes longer in Toronto.

This again puts greater emphasis on being around the terminus of the subway lines, like North York's large skyline, and Vaughan's rapidly growing one. GO stations are some of the hottest commodities. I personally would consider a larger suburban condo near a GO station compared to a SFH in Caledon or something.
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Last edited by suburbanite; Nov 5, 2019 at 10:57 PM.
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  #142  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 10:37 PM
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similar vibe in clayton, missouri. the further west you go the more "suburban" the housing and you can still see the skyscrapers right there from the street, which i always thought was pretty toronto or wilshire/westwood like, in a smaller area obviously.

https://goo.gl/maps/ChuEMCsuaRg1Y74i7

https://goo.gl/maps/p88QHeRZbdcWV5V28

https://goo.gl/maps/XmJCALVx3y9miesX6

https://goo.gl/maps/h3qaE168Xzg5rcat9
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Last edited by Centropolis; Nov 5, 2019 at 10:59 PM.
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  #143  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2019, 2:22 PM
dave8721 dave8721 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
i'm always a bit amazed at suburban toronto's appetite for tall towers. you have so many areas of SFH's and then there will be a cluster of 30+ story towers looming over the houses at the end of the street.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7708...7i16384!8i8192

that kinda things would just not ever fly in suburban chicago. i don't understand how there isn't more NIMBY push-back against it in toronto. in 99% of suburban chicagoland, highrise/skyscraper proposals are so unilaterally DOA that they are hardly ever even proposed in the first place.

across the thousands of sq. miles that constitute suburban chicagoland, there are only like 20 buildings that rise above 200', and most of those are clustered in a small handful of places like downtown evanston and schaumburg, whereas in suburban toronto you have hundreds upon hundreds (perhaps thousands?) of such buildings.

it's a really interesting phenomenon from my perspective.
There's a lot of funny examples around South Florida. How do you think these single family home owners felt about their new neighbor (there were lawsuits):
https://www.google.com/maps/@25.9573...7i16384!8i8192

(in this case the historic single family neighborhood is out of place)
https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7565...7i16384!8i8192

this one upset some people:
https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7523...7i16384!8i8192
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  #144  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2019, 4:03 PM
toddguy toddguy is offline
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^^ reminds me of Houston with towers just popping up anywhere.
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  #145  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 4:51 AM
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This is a booming area in the Vancouver area, these 3 towers in the below pic are nearly complete. On the Coquitlam side there are 9 new towers currently under construction. This area straddles two cities, Burnaby & Coquitlam and is knows as "Burquitlam". On the Coquitlam side alone there are 18 towers planned or in the presales stage, the sites are being cleared if they have not already been cleared, one of the highest is 52 storeys and one of the towers under construction right now will be Coquitlam's Tallest at 49 storeys.

The large City of Lougheed on the Burnaby side will have 23 towers when it is fully built out, there are currently 4 under construction, the Lougheed Village next to the City of Lougheed will be adding 3 more buildings, one tower will be 46 stories and there is a new proposal for three towers of 62, 72 and 82 floors next to the Lougheed Town Centre skytrain station.

In all in the next decade if all keeps going ahead there will be 53 towers added to this relatively small town centre with two busy skytrain stations. Plus there are a number of sites for sale mainly older 3 storey buildings that can be replaced by highrises under the Coquitlam plan so a number of proposals still to come.

This is the area that will have over 50 towers added to it in the next 10+ years.
Quote:
Quote:
[IMG]IMG_0419 by City Of Rain, on Flickr[/IMG]
this area is going to be redeveloped with a 6 tower development.




Metrotown in the foreground, on the left/centre is the Lougheed/Burquitlam skyline

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  #146  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 8:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
It is very unique from a North American perspective (Vancouver as well). Sure there are a lot of factors, but one thing to remember is that demographics are a lot different than Chicago. Multi-generational Canadians, especially wealthy ones, remained a lot closer to the Downtown than many American cities. As immigration picked up rapidly, the massive amount of Chinese and South Asians that migrated settled in the next ring of available land, being Mississauga, Brampton, Markham, etc. So the burbs end up being dominated by demographics who are more accustomed to high-rises and density than perhaps a comparable neighbourhood in Chicago that arose out of white flight. The staunchest NIMBY neighbourhoods in Toronto are those inner-city "yellow-belt" areas like the Danforth, St. Clair, The Annex, etc. that are comprised of long-term, probably third-generation plus Canadians who like the character of a SFH neighbourhood with the proximity to downtown.

The biggest administrative difference in Toronto is the presence of the Ontario Municipal Board (OMB) which is effectively a tribunal for local planning disputes. It allows the province to balance something like implementing the green belt, with pro-development decisions that force density on local municipalities, willing or not. You'll find many criticism of the OMB, but they are effective in pushing along these monster proposals.

Lastly, highway connectivity is abysmal in Toronto compared to Chicago. The major highways have a complete East-West focus along the 401 Corridor. All that greenfield you see to the North of the city might as well be in Narnia when it comes to driving into Downtown. Pull up Google Maps and compare Toronto's setup to the amount of yellow freeway that snakes out in all directions from Chicago. We may not like freeways but it helps for housing affordability to open up those far-flung areas. I wouldn't be surprised if an equidistant exurban location in the two cities took 30 minutes longer in Toronto.

This again puts greater emphasis on being around the terminus of the subway lines, like North York's large skyline, and Vaughan's rapidly growing one. GO stations are some of the hottest commodities. I personally would consider a larger suburban condo near a GO station compared to a SFH in Caledon or something.
I think the root of the difference pre-dates large scale Asian immigration a bit. Toronto already had a lot of suburban highrises getting built in the 60s and 70s while Chicago didn't. That probably helped normalize the idea of having highrises along transit (mainly bus routes along arterials) within an otherwise typical suburban neighbourhood.
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  #147  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 5:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
Yeah, it’s odd how many one here, Americans it seems especially, see it as binary situation. Either you have a car and drive everywhere, or you are poor and must take transit...

Growing up in Vancouver and now living in Japan it is much more dynamic than that.

In Vancouver nearly all my friends have cars, and yet nearly all of them also regularly take transit (and walk, and bike).

There is a strong desire in most to live near a transit station (not just for the transit access but also all the amenities within walking distance that often accompany such stations) Seeing how only so much space is available around transit stations this leads to higher densities and towers. Most people who live in towers near train stations in Metro Vancouver can afford single detached houses in the far flung suburbs (Maple Ridge, Langley, Abbotsford and the Valley) but they choose the condo because it better fits their preferred urban lifestyle.

Yes, not every station has high density around it even in Vancouver (that is largely due to the city dragging its heels with zoning in some neighborhoods) and yes not every tower is located near a train station, but using such outliers to prove your counter point is an obvious straw man argument.

My current life in Japan I have a car, a bike, and a train pass.

Going somewhere near my neighborhood that only requires a small basket (haircut, quick 1 or 2 bag shop, seeing a friend for coffee, etc...) I ride my bike.

Going somewhere to pick up something heavy / that is far away and not near a train station. I take my car.

Going somewhere for white collar style work that is within a 20 minute walk of a train station / going out to party with friends (especially if drinking). I take the train.

I would hate to live somewhere that required me to drive for every outing and small errand. Hence I would always choose a condo near a train station over a detached house in the far flung burbs if given only those two choices.

Also, yes, as an elementary child many of us walked, took transit and rode bikes to school. Especially after 10 years of age. Sucks that you guys didn’t have the same experience.
I remember reading somewhere that while Toronto has a bigger percentage of people living in condos vs SFH than Vancouver, Vancouver has a bigger percentage of its luxury market in condos vs SFH, meaning that condos are more of a lifestyle choice here rather than simply being priced out of SFH.
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  #148  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 5:48 PM
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Toronto Drone video, which shows some of the secondary skylines within the city of Toronto

Video Link
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  #149  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2019, 1:00 AM
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  #150  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2019, 6:20 AM
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^^^I'll add Klazu's amazing Brentwwood skyline pics to that set.

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Originally Posted by Klazu View Post

Cold and clear evenings have made for perfect conditions to capture dusk setting above beautiful Brentwood.



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  #151  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 6:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nite View Post
Toronto needs to find housing for 100,000 to 150,000 people each year.
So where would the housing come from if we don't continue to build up since we can't build out anymore?
Removing foreign investors would not change this fact, hence why without them we would still be building at the current pace.
That need has been there throughout the real estate booms and busts of the last 50 years. In my humble opinion, the last thing a city struggling to meet the housing needs wants to do is tie up supply in projects that take five plus years to build. The city is 600 plus square kilometres with much of it pavement and an ever shrinking industrial sector. Where is the need to build at the 25 to 30 FSI typical for infill towers now in downtown? That must be a half a million to a million person density stretched to a square kilometre.
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  #152  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2019, 12:28 PM
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Another suburban area of Van not shown above.

This area (right where the two Skytrain lines meet) has the region’s tallest tower currently proposed, at 82 floors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
One more Metro Vancouver town centre missing from above:


Lougheed









Source: https://globalairphotos.com/photo-se...0&gid=1&pid=20
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  #153  
Old Posted Yesterday, 1:41 AM
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Those shots of Toronto and Vancouver are absolutely stunning!
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