HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Mountain West


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #7401  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 10:43 PM
TakeFive's Avatar
TakeFive TakeFive is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Orange View Post
Wow. First off Schwab isn't an insurance company. I don't work there but have several friends who do, none of them are low skilled or poorly paid. And even if someone is a low-skilled phone answerer, that doesn't make them a shitbag. Maybe let's don't dehumanize thousands of people we don't know personally.
Have to agree. We should all learn to get along better but then look at today's leadership.

It takes all kinds of people to do many of the things we all take for granted.
__________________
Cool... Denver has reached puberty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7402  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 11:24 PM
wong21fr's Avatar
wong21fr wong21fr is online now
Reluctant Hobbesian
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Denver
Posts: 12,624
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Wonderful job of putting into your own words most of what I was trying to communicate. Things do tend to change (a lot) over time. What happened two decades ago may already be 'out of style' but that's life.

That's why Lone Tree is a nice example of an updated suburban approach to density as well as being a walk and bike friendly place. It sounds to me that Lone Tree will better utilize mixed use components than Stapleton did and yes, "urbanism" was well-known when that development began.
I think you spend so much time posting that you miss about 75% of what others are discussing- except when someone disparages a suburb and then you perk up. I didn’t see much discussion from you of how DTC is now a waste of space, asides from the “current lens” quip of yours. Rather it was a throaty defense of it being a “great thing at the time” given your self-appointed role of the defender of the Everyman aka the dudes who live in the ‘burbs. But we’re ultimately talking past each other....

Lone Tree is a great example of what a suburb could be, but it appears that it misses some opportunities for good design. Alleys are lacking and schools don’t appear to be walkable though that might be because no schools are planned for at the moment. The development around the city center station looks good (comparatively the one at SkyRidge is a total failure while Lincoln is a good one IMO) but it remains to be seen if it pans out. Remember that Brookfield has the exact same thing planned around Central Park Station and hasn’t gotten anyone to sign on to it. Industrial
space in Stapleton has been a boom given the location but the establishment of a new commercial node hasn’t panned out because the market hasn’t bought in. The intent for Ridgegate might be there, but is the demand?
__________________
"You don't strike, you just go to work everyday and do your job real half-ass. That's the American way!" -Homer Simpson

All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field. ~Albert Einstein

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7403  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 11:41 PM
SirLucasTheGreat SirLucasTheGreat is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by rds70 View Post
Speaking of infill, an additional 12 story apartment building is being planned near Alameda Station (Bannock and Alameda):

Concept Plan Submittal
I can always rely on you to post new development activity. Thanks! 12 stories is pretty tall for the area but I'm down with it!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7404  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 11:46 PM
rds70 rds70 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 2,507
In other news:

The tower crane is going up at the Hyatt Centric Hotel site on 18th.

Construction trailers have arrived at the 10th and Acoma apartment site.
__________________
Check out www.denver-cityscape.com
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7405  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2019, 12:01 AM
wong21fr's Avatar
wong21fr wong21fr is online now
Reluctant Hobbesian
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Denver
Posts: 12,624
Quote:
Originally Posted by rds70 View Post
In other news:

The tower crane is going up at the Hyatt Centric Hotel site on 18th.

Construction trailers have arrived at the 10th and Acoma apartment site.
So that’s where the crane components I saw heading through AS were going.

Thanks for the updates.
__________________
"You don't strike, you just go to work everyday and do your job real half-ass. That's the American way!" -Homer Simpson

All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field. ~Albert Einstein

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7406  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2019, 12:49 AM
TakeFive's Avatar
TakeFive TakeFive is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
I didn’t see much discussion from you of how DTC is now a waste of space, asides from the “current lens” quip of yours.
It's entirely possible you missed this critique of the DTC. I've also talked extensively about the benefit of mixed-use (as well as being more bike/ped friendly) and even gave examples of how Tempe has done this as compared to the now, dated DTC area or traditional suburban office parks. But I can't blame them for decisions made 4 to 6 decades ago. Even today it's not unusual to see office-use clusters but in Tempe it will be a 5 minute streetcar ride to everything one could want.

The 1st thing that popped into my head when you mentioned alleys is all the problems that the Arcadia neighborhood (similar to Hilltop) is having with people dumping garbage in their alleys. It's generally bulky stuff that wouldn't fit inside a normal garbage can like couches etc. Alleys are typically 'walled off' from the residences anywhere in Phoenix so it's rather easy for pickup trucks to stop by and drop a load.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds70 View Post
In other news:

Construction trailers have arrived at the 10th and Acoma apartment site.
You wouldn't suppose Lennar is tricking us by storing those trailers there?
__________________
Cool... Denver has reached puberty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7407  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2019, 3:05 AM
SirLucasTheGreat SirLucasTheGreat is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 275
10th and Acoma is happening? I thought that they hadn't started excavation yet.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7408  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2019, 4:12 AM
CONative's Avatar
CONative CONative is offline
Mile High Guy
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
I think you spend so much time posting that you miss about 75% of what others are discussing- except when someone disparages a suburb and then you perk up. I didn’t see much discussion from you of how DTC is now a waste of space, asides from the “current lens” quip of yours. Rather it was a throaty defense of it being a “great thing at the time” given your self-appointed role of the defender of the Everyman aka the dudes who live in the ‘burbs. But we’re ultimately talking past each other....

Lone Tree is a great example of what a suburb could be, but it appears that it misses some opportunities for good design. Alleys are lacking and schools don’t appear to be walkable though that might be because no schools are planned for at the moment. The development around the city center station looks good (comparatively the one at SkyRidge is a total failure while Lincoln is a good one IMO) but it remains to be seen if it pans out. Remember that Brookfield has the exact same thing planned around Central Park Station and hasn’t gotten anyone to sign on to it. Industrial
space in Stapleton has been a boom given the location but the establishment of a new commercial node hasn’t panned out because the market hasn’t bought in. The intent for Ridgegate might be there, but is the demand?
What? A Sprouts, bank, and a few other retail components are being built at Central Park station right now. One office/residential/mixed-use building is supposed to start in 2020.
__________________
-D-

Last edited by CONative; Nov 17, 2019 at 5:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7409  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2019, 4:29 AM
CONative's Avatar
CONative CONative is offline
Mile High Guy
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Wonderful job of putting into your own words most of what I was trying to communicate. Things do tend to change (a lot) over time. What happened two decades ago may already be 'out of style' but that's life.

That's why Lone Tree is a nice example of an updated suburban approach to density as well as being a walk and bike friendly place. It sounds to me that Lone Tree will better utilize mixed use components than Stapleton did and yes, "urbanism" was well-known when that development began.

One of the issues is that lots of families still prefer single family homes. In fact that is what made Stapleton so popular and successful, no? Most people, (if they're over 30) can't wait to get home after work. It may be for the peace and security, it may be the desire to connect with family, go watch the kids play soccer etc. For neighborhoods that have nice open space and bike/ped trails that's even more desirable.

So far as land use goes there's more than one way to slice a pineapple although one usually starts by slicing off the top and bottom. But from there you have any number of choices.

I wouldn't consider open space to be inefficient and it's often incorporated as a part of drainage and flood control. If people still want single family homes then builders are going to build them. Jurisdictions are going to respond to what people want and since I still believe in free will that's how it should be. I don't think you'll find small homes on larger lots any longer though.

There's no shortage of land out there TBH and if employment clusters are dispersed it's not even inefficient. Even Aurora which is largely a bedroom community has good access to both downtown and the SE business corridor including light rail access to both areas. What's not to like? I know 'urbanists' forget how important the 'nuts and bolts' side of life is but all those (future) warehouses and light industrial developments out near DIA are just as important as cheeky downtown Denver is. Putting more residential development nearby is an efficient use of the land.

All that said everybody is entitled to hold to their own prejudices and dogma.
How is it that folks don't see the many mixed use components that Stapleton already DOES have? There are live/work units a block from me, several townhomes and small condo/apartment buildings all around me, a 3 story office building with ground floor retail/restaurants 2 blocks from me (and no, I am not near the 29th Ave Town Center or Northfield Center...which has even more of all of that), and I do live in a SF house. Why is it that folks expected more density from a very large 8 square mile development that is 7 miles from downtown? Fact is...Stapleton has a lot more walkable shops, amenities, retail than many think. A lot of SF home dwellers and multifamily folks can walk to shops within a 5-10 minute walk in Stapleton. Not all folks, but a slight majority can now, and more will as time passes. Fact also is...Stapleton has a lot more multi-family than most realize and is denser than most neighborhoods in the city of Denver....and that is now....before the large vacant parcels that are slated for multi-family/mixed use are finally developed and will bring more of that "urbanism". The developers and city of Denver never expected Stapleton to be fully developed for 30 years. Around 2030 is when it was expected to be fully developed with all the residential and commercial aspects....even when it had higher aspirations for more multi-family in certain spots. We are at less than 20 years and have a lot of large vacant parcels still slated for those things, but people expect it all to be there now and are judging it before completion. Many commercial businesses and investors are literally waiting until all the residents are in place before setting up shop. I feel like some people aren't seeing what is actually in Stapleton already, and focus on all the SF homes. They miss that small retail strip that is not on Quebec or Northfield or off the highway, but they do notice the SF homes. They miss the 3 story office building with retail as they see another street of SF houses or townhomes in the distance. They miss the many 3-5 story apartments and condos, or even the many condo buildings that are often mistaken for large houses. They miss the live-work units. When I point out all the retail and commercial spots in Stapleton (which I have on this forum before), the majority of density and mixed-use lovers are surprised. Weird.

The beginning stages of the the Central Park TOD has started with Sprouts, a bank, and a few other retail components being constructed now...and a mixed use apartment/retail building planned to start in late 2020.

I'm not saying Stapleton is some urban paradise. It's not... but it is also NOT some suburban development with a wall of fences along collector streets...with parking lot oriented retail strips that folks have to walk 30 minutes through a maze of curved streets and cul-de-sacs to get to. I also think Stapleton doesn't get the respect for what it does have while it still has NOT been finished over 8 square miles of land...and when folks focus on the SF homes and the power retail centers that are on the arterial edges of Stapleton. That's not what I'm referring to when I talk about the mixed-uses and decent density throughout, and are definitely still to come in more than a few areas of Stapleton.
__________________
-D-

Last edited by CONative; Nov 17, 2019 at 5:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7410  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2019, 8:52 PM
DenvertoLA DenvertoLA is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 243
Has anyone seen if One Platte has broken ground? I think I was supposed to start in October.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7411  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2019, 11:40 PM
RyanD's Avatar
RyanD RyanD is offline
Fast. Fun. Frequent.
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 2,835
__________________
DenverInfill
DenverUrbanism
--------------------
Latest Photo Threads: Los Angeles | New Orleans | Denver: 2014 Megathread | Denver Time-Lapse Project For more photos check out: My Website and My Flickr Photostream
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7412  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 12:29 AM
twister244 twister244 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 538
Always nice to see projects sneak under the radar and go straight to a ground breaking.....

The DP posted a really nice article giving a bit of an update on the McGregor Square project. Our very own Ken is quoted multiple times....

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/11/1...s-coors-field/

I also did a quick search and found this site with mostly the same renderings, but there are some now showing what the residences will look like:
https://www.mlb.com/rockies/fans/mcgregor-square

Everytime I go by this site, and the Market Station, I get super excited! By far my favorite projects am excited to see being completed since moving here in 2015. I think the combination of the two will really elevate LoDo / US to a new level.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7413  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 1:02 AM
SirLucasTheGreat SirLucasTheGreat is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 275
Thanks for the update, Ryan! I really appreciate your work. I spent some time around downtown and made a few observations:

1. Glass is starting to go up on Block 162

2. Nothing happening on One Platte

3. Construction trailers at 10th and Acoma. This area is starting to become very urban feeling. I just hope more food options open up inside Golden Triangle.

4. I drove through Market Street. 14th through 20th on Market is going to be very exciting 1 to 2 years from now.

5. I got a haircut around Union Station. I see a few more restaurants opening up on Chestnut. Seems like there's much more foot traffic in this part of Union Station.

All in all, I'm really excited for LoDo. Many great projects taking form.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7414  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 4:34 PM
COtoOC's Avatar
COtoOC COtoOC is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO (Stapleton)
Posts: 1,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by CONative View Post
How is it that folks don't see the many mixed use components that Stapleton already DOES have? There are live/work units a block from me, several townhomes and small condo/apartment buildings all around me, a 3 story office building with ground floor retail/restaurants 2 blocks from me (and no, I am not near the 29th Ave Town Center or Northfield Center...which has even more of all of that), and I do live in a SF house. Why is it that folks expected more density from a very large 8 square mile development that is 7 miles from downtown? Fact is...Stapleton has a lot more walkable shops, amenities, retail than many think. A lot of SF home dwellers and multifamily folks can walk to shops within a 5-10 minute walk in Stapleton. Not all folks, but a slight majority can now, and more will as time passes. Fact also is...Stapleton has a lot more multi-family than most realize and is denser than most neighborhoods in the city of Denver....and that is now....before the large vacant parcels that are slated for multi-family/mixed use are finally developed and will bring more of that "urbanism". The developers and city of Denver never expected Stapleton to be fully developed for 30 years. Around 2030 is when it was expected to be fully developed with all the residential and commercial aspects....even when it had higher aspirations for more multi-family in certain spots. We are at less than 20 years and have a lot of large vacant parcels still slated for those things, but people expect it all to be there now and are judging it before completion. Many commercial businesses and investors are literally waiting until all the residents are in place before setting up shop. I feel like some people aren't seeing what is actually in Stapleton already, and focus on all the SF homes. They miss that small retail strip that is not on Quebec or Northfield or off the highway, but they do notice the SF homes. They miss the 3 story office building with retail as they see another street of SF houses or townhomes in the distance. They miss the many 3-5 story apartments and condos, or even the many condo buildings that are often mistaken for large houses. They miss the live-work units. When I point out all the retail and commercial spots in Stapleton (which I have on this forum before), the majority of density and mixed-use lovers are surprised. Weird.

The beginning stages of the the Central Park TOD has started with Sprouts, a bank, and a few other retail components being constructed now...and a mixed use apartment/retail building planned to start in late 2020.

I'm not saying Stapleton is some urban paradise. It's not... but it is also NOT some suburban development with a wall of fences along collector streets...with parking lot oriented retail strips that folks have to walk 30 minutes through a maze of curved streets and cul-de-sacs to get to. I also think Stapleton doesn't get the respect for what it does have while it still has NOT been finished over 8 square miles of land...and when folks focus on the SF homes and the power retail centers that are on the arterial edges of Stapleton. That's not what I'm referring to when I talk about the mixed-uses and decent density throughout, and are definitely still to come in more than a few areas of Stapleton.
I agree, as a 15 year Stapleton resident. I walk to the Eastbridge town center and the Stanley, so something like 15 local restaurants, the grocery store, a rec center.... I'm pleased with how it's turned out so far.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7415  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 4:36 PM
wong21fr's Avatar
wong21fr wong21fr is online now
Reluctant Hobbesian
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Denver
Posts: 12,624
Quote:
Originally Posted by CONative View Post
What? A Sprouts, bank, and a few other retail components are being built at Central Park station right now. One office/residential/mixed-use building is supposed to start in 2020.
I don't think that's a resounding amount of development given that Forest City (now Brookfield) has been working the TOD site for nearly a decade. They've been marketing the hell out of the area and just cannot get commercial office tenants to bite. Now compare that lack of success with Lone Tree's wins and that's my beef with the TOD in Stapleton.

Oh, and who do I have to knife to get a Costco out here?
__________________
"You don't strike, you just go to work everyday and do your job real half-ass. That's the American way!" -Homer Simpson

All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field. ~Albert Einstein

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7416  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 9:32 PM
COtoOC's Avatar
COtoOC COtoOC is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO (Stapleton)
Posts: 1,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
I don't think that's a resounding amount of development given that Forest City (now Brookfield) has been working the TOD site for nearly a decade. They've been marketing the hell out of the area and just cannot get commercial office tenants to bite. Now compare that lack of success with Lone Tree's wins and that's my beef with the TOD in Stapleton.

Oh, and who do I have to knife to get a Costco out here?


And whatever happened to the proposal for the SE corner of MKL and CP Blvds? I remember some high density condos or apartments were proposed, neighbors screamed, then nothing happened.

That really pissed me off. You bought a new house next to a lot at a busy intersection with a sign that says, "High Density Development Coming" and then complain when it's proposed. But then people bitched about the Eastbridge town center, claiming "traffic"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7417  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 10:50 PM
The Dirt's Avatar
The Dirt The Dirt is offline
Ground Scraper
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 2,950
People that move to Denver: "I bought a house in the middle of the largest city in a 500 mile radius. Why isn't my house the last thing to be built ever?! Waaaah!"
__________________
"That emoticon is the most foolish thing you have posted in this whole thread full of foolish statements." - Cirrus
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7418  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2019, 4:25 AM
jbssfelix jbssfelix is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
Oh, and who do I have to knife to get a Costco out here?
Hell, I just want a dry cleaner north of 70...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7419  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2019, 4:14 PM
wong21fr's Avatar
wong21fr wong21fr is online now
Reluctant Hobbesian
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Denver
Posts: 12,624
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbssfelix View Post
Hell, I just want a dry cleaner north of 70...
I heard we're getting another taco joint instead. That makes four in the area I believe.
__________________
"You don't strike, you just go to work everyday and do your job real half-ass. That's the American way!" -Homer Simpson

All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field. ~Albert Einstein


Last edited by wong21fr; Nov 19, 2019 at 4:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7420  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2019, 4:32 PM
twister244 twister244 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 538
I honestly can't remember if this is a proposed office building in RiNo that we have discussed already.... My apologies if it has already....

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n...tml#g/463803/1
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Mountain West
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:05 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.