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  #21  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2019, 4:16 PM
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MonkeyRonin MonkeyRonin is offline
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Originally Posted by yuriandrade View Post
Not sure whether those laws encouraged the construction of narrow towers. I just meant they were not result of lax zoning laws as this period had very strict (and bad) ones.

Perhaps it was not the intended outcome, but given that regulation it does help to explain in part why there are so many skinny high-rises.



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Originally Posted by sbarn View Post
Skinny highrise projects are fairly typical in Manhattan:

Infill examples:

Makes sense that there'd be a lot in New York. Going back to my earlier points about those skinny towers in Toronto, New York is filled with properties that fit those three criteria - there are many constrained lots, precedence of existing high-rises/favourable zoning, and an expensive/high-income market that can bear the higher costs associated with building these.
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  #22  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2019, 6:49 PM
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SIGSEGV SIGSEGV is online now
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This is my favorite narrowish (not sure if it's narrow enough by the criteria here) residential tower in Chicago: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7975...7i16384!8i8192 because it's so out of place with with its surroundings. Too bad things like this cannot happen nowadays.
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  #23  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 2:20 PM
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Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
This is my favorite narrowish (not sure if it's narrow enough by the criteria here) residential tower in Chicago: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7975...7i16384!8i8192 because it's so out of place with with its surroundings. Too bad things like this cannot happen nowadays.
I like it too except for the blank wall. Too bad it's not setback slightly above the 5th floor to allow for windows.
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  #24  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 1:30 AM
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Originally Posted by yuriandrade View Post
Yes, US$ 9,000. As São Paulo GDP per capita is 2.5 lower than Canadian metro areas, it seems labour costs are relatively lower in SP. As Brazil is still recovering from the 2014-2016 crisis, salaries are still depressed.

When it comes to apartment prices then São Paulo is considerably more expensive than Toronto and alligned with Vancouver, again, relatively speaking.

There are many pockets of low rise only areas as you can see clearly on Google Earth 3D, where buildings suddenly stop. Regulations affect mostly the total floor area vs size of the plot, which increases costs, induces land wasting which makes no sense in a 21 million people urban area.

In fact, those regulations impacted the entire urban area, causing crazy traffic jams and crowded public transit. The low rise residential districts on the far east parts of the city have densities up to 15,000 inh./sq km while more central districts where virtually all the jobs are could manage much higher densities without the regulations. For instance, Paris houses 2.2 million people in 120 sq km, same for Manhattan plus adjacents parts of Brooklyn, Queens and Bronx while São Paulo has “only” 1.4 million people in its most central 120 sq km.
ok that makes sense. The small footprint towers in Sao Paulo are different from the ones that have been posted so far from Toronto, New York and Chicago in that they're in a more lowrise setting.

Some of those North American examples actually don't have that small footprints, since even though they're narrow, they extend quite deep into the lot. Or they have a skinny width to height ratio but they're also much taller so they floorplates are actually not that small. But even the ones that do have small floorplates are usually in a "wall to wall" environment, surrounded by a lot of 3-10 storey buildings.

In Sao Paulo they're often built in semi-suburban areas, or at least areas that are not "wall to wall".

If the cost of construction labor, relative to housing costs or relative to upper-middle class incomes, is lower in Sao Paulo, then that could explain how they're able to compensate for some of the inefficiencies of small footprint buildings.

And Sao Paulo is building primarily in existing neighbourhoods, rather than on brownfield sites or vacant land like a lot of North American cities. That would explain why they often have to work with smaller sites, and if there's zoning that limits ground coverage, then that obviously leaves you with small building footprints.
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  #25  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Why are we singling out Sao Paulo, when this is a standard South American typology?

And why are we comparing to NA, where middle and upper class people rarely live in urban towers (yes there are a few regional exceptions).

In NYC, the NIMBYs made it much harder to build "silver" towers in the 1980's. There was a huge wave of slivers in the early 1980's, and then the rules were tightened up, so it is almost impossible to build true residential slivers in residential areas.
Wasn't there a fairly bad creepy/scary movie made a couple of decades ago called "Sliver"? Maybe that gave a bad name to the slivers. There are many benefits to having good neighbors. Being the only occupant on a small sliver floor might be sort of lonely/scary. Maybe that movie scared away potential sliver unit buyers.
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