Atlanta Project Thread IV - Page 137

Martinman · #**2721** Posted **Dec 2, 2017, 10:05 PM**

I just went by the site today. Demolition is now underway.

Atlanta3000 · #**2722** Posted **Dec 3, 2017, 4:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by smArTaLlone

https://www.bisnow.com/atlanta/news/...elopment-82176

The proposed additional floors at the top of Campanile is not specifically mentioned in the bond documents but I believe that is also a part of this bond package.

I am completely baffled about where these numbers are coming from. Dewberry purchased this property on a fire sales in 2010 for $30 Million. The previous owner had paid over $97 Million in 2007. Dewberry did make architectural changes to the building's crown (by removing it) it 2013 which I assume is how the DAFC became involved. However, there is no way removing a crown would increase the value of the building from $30 Million to $66 Million. Now the DAFC wants to provide $125 Million in revenue bonds when Dewberry is only publicly committing to building an additional 70K sqft. of retail space. WTF is going on here?

When does "business friendly policies" give way to criminal acts? Could someone here shed light on this?

http://qpublic9.qpublic.net/ga_displ...how_history=1&

Libertarian · #**2723** Posted **Dec 3, 2017, 6:22 PM**

When does "business friendly policies" give way to criminal acts? That's the issue isn't it. Not for nothing that we have the reputation of the most corrupt state in the union, and that covers a massive territory - so many states with corrupt criminals.

Martinman · #**2724** Posted **Dec 3, 2017, 7:38 PM**

One might debate whether or not this incentive practice is wise but you'll need to explain how any of this would be criminal.

Obviously the $66 million was the value of the property and the renovations that were done in 2013. And it was bought for $36 million in bidding process by Wells Fargo at the bottom of a severe recession. Presumably other bidders such as Cousins offered even less. $125 million is the value of the property and proposal in 2017. Whatever it was purchased for in the past is totally irrelevant.

Atlanta3000 · #**2725** Posted **Dec 3, 2017, 9:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinman

One might debate whether or not this incentive practice is wise but you'll need to explain how any of this would be criminal.

Obviously the $66 million was the value of the property and the renovations that were done in 2013. And it was bought for $36 million in bidding process by Wells Fargo at the bottom of a severe recession. Presumably other bidders such as Cousins offered even less. $125 million is the value of the property and proposal in 2017. Whatever it was purchased for in the past is totally irrelevant.

Martinman,

Totally appreciate the response, but did you even bother to review the link in my original post regarding the property details?

Look at Exhibit A - Historical Assessments, the building and land value never increased after the renovations were done in 2013. As a matter of fact, the assessed value stayed the same from 2011 - 2016. More importantly, why did the DAFC issue a $66 Million revenue bond in 2013, when the tax records indicate the property was only valued at $32,081,300 (2013)?

Look at Exhibit B - 2017 Assessment Notice, why the did the property's assessment jump from $32,081,300 in 2016 to $82,414,700 in 2017? No changes to the property occurred over this time. So why did the value of the property increase 250% in 1 year?

Look at Exhibit C - DAFC Meeting Notes October, it details Dewberries plans to add 40K of retail space and penthouse renovations. Keep in mind the property's 2017 assessment was $82,414700 and the DAFC plans to issue a $125,000,000 revenue bond for these "renovations" and "additions". So if my math is correct $125,000,000 - $82,414,700 = $42,585,300 is the implied value the property will increase in assessed value from a 40K retail addition and penthouse upgrades.

In the past I have used the term "Code Brown" to insinuate a past, present or future unfortunate bowel movement, but I also use it for when circumstances are an obvious classic case of bullshit. Martinman, what we have here is a Code Brown.

EXHIBIT A - Historical Assessments

EXHIBIT B - 2017 Tax Assessment

Exhibit C - DAFC Meeting Notes October

RocketSurgeon · #**2726** Posted **Dec 4, 2017, 1:55 AM**

For some reason Fulton was neglecting assessments during those years. They finally updated them in 2017 and many increased by 50% or even 100% because of the market having recovered over that period. Enough people complained that they restored them to the 2016 amounts, with some exceptions made for cases like renovations. That's what led to the APS budget shortfall. If you own property in the county you should have gotten notices about it in the mail.

Libertarian · #**2727** Posted **Dec 4, 2017, 3:02 AM**

My recollection is, in Atlanta there were maybe three years with no change in assessed valuation but seven years? I don't remember anything like that many years of no updates. Maybe my memory is slipping.

Libertarian · #**2728** Posted **Dec 4, 2017, 3:35 AM**

I just can't comprehend how Dewberry justifies a tax break for Campanile.
https://www.bisnow.com/atlanta/news/...elopment-82176

bryantm3 · #**2729** Posted **Dec 4, 2017, 3:35 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libertarian

When does "business friendly policies" give way to criminal acts? That's the issue isn't it. Not for nothing that we have the reputation of the most corrupt state in the union, and that covers a massive territory - so many states with corrupt criminals.

agreed, government policy from local all the way to federal gives favor to larger, global businesses and disfavors local trade.

Atlanta3000 · #**2730** Posted **Dec 4, 2017, 12:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

For some reason Fulton was neglecting assessments during those years. They finally updated them in 2017 and many increased by 50% or even 100% because of the market having recovered over that period. Enough people complained that they restored them to the 2016 amounts, with some exceptions made for cases like renovations. That's what led to the APS budget shortfall. If you own property in the county you should have gotten notices about it in the mail.

You are only half correct. If you own residential property in the city, YES taxes went up substantially. However, if you own commercial property in the CoA you did not see any appreciable difference in the last SEVERAL years even as property values and lease rates have soared.

Folks - this is the problem with America. Business don't want to pay city, state and federal taxes so the Middle Class is left picking up the tab. And we wonder why our infrastructure is crumbling in this country.

RockSurgeon - this is not a personal attack on you, but it concerns me that people on here are reasonably educated and don't know this is going on.

Below are historical tax assessments for commercial buildings near Dewberry's Campanile building:

1170 Peachtree Street

1180 Peachtree Street

999 Peachtree Street

1180 West Peachtree

1201 West Peachtree

Street Advocate · #**2731** Posted **Dec 4, 2017, 4:06 PM**

Those land values are laughable and I think it's good cause to review what/why they've been stagnant for such a duration, particularly during a bull market. For comparison, the 1/2 acre Firestone parcel that just sold across from Lenox mall sold for $5 million.

Libertarian · #**2732** Posted **Dec 4, 2017, 4:31 PM**

I remember that when I owned apartments in Atlanta, the rule of thumb was as a small landlord I was paying twice the property taxes per unit on apartments that earned half the average gross rent revenue of those owned by the big companies. Why? Those guys had "good lawyers" who (I'm convinced) were lining the pockets of public servants in the tax commissioner's office. But I used that statistic to appeal assessments.

Atlanta3000 · #**2733** Posted **Dec 4, 2017, 4:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

Those land values are laughable and I think it's good cause to review what/why they've been stagnant for such a duration, particularly during a bull market. For comparison, the 1/2 acre Firestone parcel that just sold across from Lenox mall sold for $5 million.

The GA Tech Foundation paid over $10 Million an acre for land on West Peachtree in March of 2017. Also the CoA on values the Campanile's property @ $6,233,700 for 1.5488 acres at the corner of 14th Street and Peachtree Street (or the most valuable intersection in Midtown).

https://atlanta.curbed.com/2017/3/21...achtree-street

http://qpublic9.qpublic.net/ga_displ...how_history=1&

Street Advocate · #**2734** Posted **Dec 4, 2017, 5:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

The GA Tech Foundation paid over $10 Million an acre for land on West Peachtree in March of 2017. Also the CoA on values the Campanile's property @ $6,233,700 for 1.5488 acres at the corner of 14th Street and Peachtree Street (or the most valuable intersection in Midtown).

Shady business or government incompetence? Probably a mix of both... And FWIW, I don't think Atlanta is regarded as a highly corrupt city nationally. Seems like it with the Reed administration (since I've been in Atlanta), although I'm not as sure it's nationally recognized as such.

What's the point of keeping the land values low, if specifically done so by the government? To encourage development via lower taxes? If Midtown land values are that low, I imagine the rest of the city is much lower than it's actual rate as well. But we all know different cities look to earn income through different preferred methods of taxation, whether it be property taxes, local income tax, permitting and impact fees, etc.

Atlanta3000 · #**2735** Posted **Dec 4, 2017, 10:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libertarian

I just can't comprehend how Dewberry justifies a tax break for Campanile.
https://www.bisnow.com/atlanta/news/...elopment-82176

What I find most offensive is the DAFC actually insults our intelligence to believe they actually require a reasonable explanation for a developer to get a tax break.

RATBOYKEV · #**2736** Posted **Dec 5, 2017, 1:04 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

What I find most offensive is the DAFC actually insults our intelligence to believe they actually require a reasonable explanation for a developer to get a tax break.

This "little project" is probably one of the easiest to get financing for than any other in the southeastern United States right now. IMO, it's a pure tax rebate giveaway due to the perverse incentive that this reliable bond will generate them(DAFC) their little fee.

Midtown doesn't need this bullshit;help the neighborhoods that do!

*edit - the building looked better before the renovation, assholes.

cabasse · #**2737** Posted **Dec 5, 2017, 2:20 AM**

^I always thought so too. I thought the glass crown was a neat pomo touch to the very pomo midtown district...

trainiac · #**2738** Posted **Dec 5, 2017, 4:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabasse

^I always thought so too. I thought the glass crown was a neat pomo touch to the very pomo midtown district...

And it supposedly had a real campanile at the top. It hadn't worked for years from what I've heard. I wonder what it sounded like?

smArTaLlone · #**2739** Posted **Dec 7, 2017, 1:26 AM**

https://atlanta.curbed.com/2017/12/6...ket-apartments

Libertarian · #**2740** Posted **Dec 8, 2017, 4:58 AM**

Dewberry was one of Keisha Bottoms main contributors. Could that help his ability with getting the tax break on Campanile? I hope not. JFK was elected based on the Mafia delivering Illinois, and some think that when he and AG Bobby did a 180 and started prosecuting, it ended up getting him killed. I would like to see Keisha do a 180 on Dewberry but thank goodness whatever Dewberry is it isn't the mob.