NEW YORK | Hudson Yards; 40 msf of development

[mrnyc]

yesterday

[Perklol]

Originally Posted by ablerock

Ha!

Ok, I'll bite.

Not impressive because...?

Oops! Sorry for the late reply but here's why.

I still have a hard time believing that swarms of people will visit this place for a sculpture and mall. The new (deep) subway extension will help somewhat. Also the High Line park will help but who else will come visit when all is finished?

I don't think the sculpture will be as impressive as they say.

[WestSideGuy]

Originally Posted by Eveningsong

Oops! Sorry for the late reply but here's why.

I still have a hard time believing that swarms of people will visit this place for a sculpture and mall. The new (deep) subway extension will help somewhat. Also the High Line park will help but who else will come visit when all is finished?

I don't think the sculpture will be as impressive as they say.

You said it yourself, the 7 line extension and the Highline just for starters. What about all the office workers? Plus all the residential that will be part of Phase 1. The upscale mall will be a draw, it will also include a movie cinema. It also isn't far from Penn Station and the ACE. I think this neighborhood will be fine.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by Eveningsong

Oops! Sorry for the late reply but here's why.

I still have a hard time believing that swarms of people will visit this place for a sculpture and mall. The new (deep) subway extension will help somewhat. Also the High Line park will help but who else will come visit when all is finished?

I don't think the sculpture will be as impressive as they say.

The large amount of office space (the large north and south towers already have anchor tenants) plus the 7 line extension will do more than enough to encourage people to travel to the west side.

[DCReid]

Neiman eyes HY for first NYC store:

http://nypost.com/2014/03/27/neiman-...move-into-nyc/

[Perklol]

^

While that looks attractive versus comparable rents around Manhattan, word of the deal has drawn skepticism from some insiders, who have balked at the site’s relatively remote and inaccessible location near the corner of 30th St. and 10th Ave.

“They had to find somebody from Dallas who didn’t understand New York real estate,” quipped one New York property insider. “They think ladies are going to get in a cab to go shop when they can walk to Fifth Avenue?”

Indeed, competitors including Saks Fifth Avenue, Nordstrom, Bloomingdale’s and even Paris-based Galeries Lafayette have all taken a look at Hudson Yards and passed, according to sources.

NY post

Should Related be worried?

[WestSideGuy]

Originally Posted by Eveningsong

^

NY post

Should Related be worried?

I wouldn't be worried if I was Related. That comment is commercial real estate sour grapes. Neiman Marcus at Hudson Yards is a Game Changer. They are getting the space between $30-40 a square foot. It will be a success.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Eveningsong

Should Related be worried?

Related is making an absolute killing on Hudson Yards. Why would they be worried?

I mean, Neiman Marcus as an anchor for the retail space? You can't get much better than that.

And there's no Neiman Marcus within 20 miles of Manhattan, so they will make huge money.

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Related is making an absolute killing on Hudson Yards. Why would they be worried?

I mean, Neiman Marcus as an anchor for the retail space? You can't get much better than that.

And there's no Neiman Marcus within 20 miles of Manhattan, so they will make huge money.

True. People tend to go into the city for the department stores when it comes to shopping. Hell, I do too. You can find stuff there that is hard to find in any suburban place or small city without looking hard for it. This will be a success neighborhood wise in drawing people. Right next to Penn Station, with the daytime population of the surrounding square miles in excess of 100,000 or more, this will be a crowded place. Not to mention the surrounding residential towers popping like bamboo all over he West Side. The fashion show also I believe is in the area or will be eventually, pushing its publicity even higher. Lets not forget about tourism too. This area will be hot like Nevada .

[mrnyc]

since it was brought up -- what is the size of this neiman marcus dept store of which we speak? do we know the sq footage yet? and if we know, how does that size rank among all their other stores? thx if you know. i was just thinking the size of the store might matter.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

since it was brought up -- what is the size of this neiman marcus dept store of which we speak? do we know the sq footage yet? and if we know, how does that size rank among all their other stores? thx if you know. i was just thinking the size of the store might matter.

The NY Post article said around 200,000 feet, when the typical Neiman Marcus is around 100,000 feet. So around twice the size of a typical Neiman Marcus, but much smaller than the old-style Manhattan flagships (Macys, Saks, Lord & Taylor, Bloomingdales, etc.).

There will never be old-style flagship department stores built in Manhattan again, because the prices are too high. The numbers literally don't work, even if you have a department store with crazy sales figures. It still won't be more than the 4,000 per foot you can generate from condos in the sky (the numbers work on the lower floors, but not up on Floor 10, and if you want a mega-department store, you will need a 10-12 floor setup).

[Perklol]

West Side of Manhattan unready for commuter boom

April 1, 2014 | 3:01am

The new Hudson Yards development will bring 24 million new people a year to the Far West Side — but there aren’t enough transit options to handle them all, according to a new study.

The 7 train expansion to 11th Avenue and 34th Street, supported by former Mayor Mike Bloomberg, helped spur the development, but too many other projects that would ease transit congestion are not on track, according to the New York Building Congress.

“Development is moving in a westward direction in Manhattan like it never has before,” said Richard Anderson, president of the NYBC — a nonpartisan coalition of business, labor and other groups.

“It’s over 30 million square feet of new development. One subway line is not sufficient. We’re already seeing severe overcrowding on the commuter rail lines.”

The rezoning includes 5,000 new apartments, five office towers and 100 shops.

Snagged projects that would ease congestion include redeveloping the old Farley Post Office on Eighth Avenue into a new home for Amtrak that would draw away some of Penn Station’s large crowds.

Demand for a new rail connection between the West Side and New Jersey has also skyrocketed — but only a small fraction of funding has gone toward a second train route under the Hudson River.

Amtrak proposed the Gateway project in 2011, which would add 25 slots for high-speed trains during rush hour between New York and Newark Penn Station. It was seen as an alternative to a new tunnel that New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie nixed in 2010. It also ends in Penn Station, rather than underneath 34th Street.

The project is expected to cost about $14 billion — but only $185 million has been allocated so far. The MTA has also wanted to bring Metro-North trains to Penn Station for years, giving it a second terminal if service to Grand Central is disrupted.

But delays in bringing the LIRR to Grand Central have put those plans on hold, since there won’t be enough track space at Penn Station for Metro-North.
The report calls for more coordination through a new intergovernmental group that would advance all the different projects.
The MTA said the authority backs all of the projects above to alleviate crowds on the West Side.
“We are either actively working on or are supportive of these projects,” said spokesman Kevin Ortiz.

http://nypost.com/2014/04/01/west-si...commuter-boom/

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Eveningsong

West Side of Manhattan unready for commuter boom

http://nypost.com/2014/04/01/west-si...commuter-boom/

April 1, 2014 | 3:01am

They're off base. New York City could always use another subway line. It will always been seens as not sufficient, and that's because it's the greatest public transportation system, and more people rely on and use it. Could there be another line on the east side? Yes, and it's coming. That won't end the crowding on the other lines, but it's another option.

Now about the 7 line extension. Currently, there are 4 stops in Manhattan. When the new Hudson Yards station opens, there will be 5. There were supposed to be 6, but the new station along 42nd isn't being built.

The 7 line connection was necessary to bring the neighborhood into the fabric of the rest of the city. And the connection will do that. But let's not get carried away, it's not the only option or even the option that will be most used by workers getting there. They will come from the east via the LIRR, the west via NJ Transit and even PATH. They will come from Downtown, and Brooklyn via subway, but who's going to take the train uptown to 42nd, just to transfer for an unnecessary trip back downtown on the 7? Some will, but most probably will not. The 7 line trip to Hudson Yards would best be suited to people coming from Queens, the Bronx, and Grand Central, which will be one of the 5 stops in the City.

However, most people commuting into Manhattan on the 7 line will have left the train before it makes it to that final Hudson Yards stop. For the amount of office space they are building, its sufficient enough. For residents in the area, it's a great connection to other parts of Midtown, or Yankee Stadium, Citifield, etc. It would be great if the line continued Downtown or Jersey even. But there are other areas of the city that could be better served, including the airports.

I think we are lucky to be getting this one line - without it the Hudson Yards doesn't happen. That's why basically the city is creating this extension, and not the MTA. There will be a lot of development in the area, and it will be dense. It won't be on the magnitude of Grand Central in density though, or Times Square even for that matter.

When the Hudson Yards station opens, the critics will come out and complain that the "low" ridership wasn't worth the expense of building, especially considering other areas of the city with a lack of subway service. But eventually everyone will see the worth of this extension, and what it means to the City.

As far as new service to the area? Well, there is the second tunnel that will be built under the Hudson, creating more capacity for commuters coming in from New Jersey. The LIRR will be adding service to Grand Central, with Metro North bringing service into Penn Station. I think the city will be ok.


http://web.mta.info/maps/images/subway_2100x2505.jpg

[Busy Bee]

Extending the L to Hudson Yards would be a worthy project IMO.

[Perklol]

Originally Posted by NYguy

They're off base. New York City could always use another subway line. It will always been seens as not sufficient, and that's because it's the greatest public transportation system, and more people rely on and use it. Could there be another line on the east side? Yes, and it's coming. That won't end the crowding on the other lines, but it's another option.

Now about the 7 line extension. Currently, there are 4 stops in Manhattan. When the new Hudson Yards station opens, there will be 5. There were supposed to be 6, but the new station along 42nd isn't being built.

The 7 line connection was necessary to bring the neighborhood into the fabric of the rest of the city. And the connection will do that. But let's not get carried away, it's not the only option or even the option that will be most used by workers getting there. They will come from the east via the LIRR, the west via NJ Transit and even PATH. They will come from Downtown, and Brooklyn via subway, but who's going to take the train uptown to 42nd, just to transfer for an unnecessary trip back downtown on the 7? Some will, but most probably will not. The 7 line trip to Hudson Yards would best be suited to people coming from Queens, the Bronx, and Grand Central, which will be one of the 5 stops in the City.

However, most people commuting into Manhattan on the 7 line will have left the train before it makes it to that final Hudson Yards stop. For the amount of office space they are building, its sufficient enough. For residents in the area, it's a great connection to other parts of Midtown, or Yankee Stadium, Citifield, etc. It would be great if the line continued Downtown or Jersey even. But there are other areas of the city that could be better served, including the airports.

I think we are lucky to be getting this one line - without it the Hudson Yards doesn't happen. That's why basically the city is creating this extension, and not the MTA. There will be a lot of development in the area, and it will be dense. It won't be on the magnitude of Grand Central in density though, or Times Square even for that matter.

When the Hudson Yards station opens, the critics will come out and complain that the "low" ridership wasn't worth the expense of building, especially considering other areas of the city with a lack of subway service. But eventually everyone will see the worth of this extension, and what it means to the City.

As far as new service to the area? Well, there is the second tunnel that will be built under the Hudson, creating more capacity for commuters coming in from New Jersey. The LIRR will be adding service to Grand Central, with Metro North bringing service into Penn Station. I think the city will be ok.


http://web.mta.info/maps/images/subway_2100x2505.jpg

I agree.

Construction for phase 1 still has a long ways to go. One subway is enough for the amount of construction now, but in the future maybe they could extend the L over there if the whole area is fully developed.

[JSsocal]

The L and the 7 are on two different subway divisions (their cars cannot run on each others' tracks). On the issue of transportation the gateway project is a must, as commuter train service is at capacity during rush hour.

On a macro scale there really does need to be significant investment in new rail service as the city grows to unseen levels of population. The subways can barely handle rush hour traffic, and there will be a lot more growth over the next few years.

[antinimby]

The city should build a light rail line running on the West Side Highway from Battery Park all the way up to the UWS. They already have the right of way and it should be a lot cheaper than any new subway lines.

Think about this...there's almost no train service west of 8th Ave and that's a huge chunk of Manhattan. That's crazy.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by JSsocal

The L and the 7 are on two different subway divisions (their cars cannot run on each others' tracks).

No one said anything about through running the L and 7, most people know that they're on different divisions with different rolling stock requirements. An extended L would terminate at HY.

As for other transportation options, I mentioned this in the Hudson Spire thread but it got deleted, there could be a high frequency light rail line on a partially pedestrianized 34th St running from River to River. IMO that could increase access as successfully as a subway line.

[j-biz]

^ Theoretically the SBS M34 should already fill that need. But those damn buses are just as slow as the rest because people (mostly traffic cops, mind you) are always blocking the bus lane.

[mrnyc]

absolutely no. no crosstown surface rail in midtown. this isnt freakin portland or san diego. back to the yards...any news about the westernmost end of the rail yards? when will work start over there? all i've seen is staging and surveying.