Dynamic Ottawa. What would it take?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by harls

I've had a Scottish friend remark, "Ah.. moderately-sized Ben."

I don't get how anyone who has seen Big Ben can day they compare.

[OTownandDown]

I think what we all mean is "A park that is a destination" that is, one that isn't just trees and a small shrine to a cause.

Why do Ottawa parks lack ANY amenities? Why was it just 2019 when we finally got a try at cafe's in a park? Tavern on the Hill/Falls are always full, and an example of what should be in EVERY park.

But Karen from linear park doesn't want people interrupting her downtown solitude.

Why would a tourist want to walk across a barren city? Yes, Sparks Street has patios in summer. Great.

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Have you ever been to Ottawa?



Have you ever seen a map of Ottawa?

Why are so many people in Ottawa convinced that (a) Ottawa is lacking in parks, and (b) parks are the key to make a city more "dynamic/vibrant/exciting", etc.?

[OTownandDown]

Also, not to say that local shopping isn't important, but how did we end up with Elgin and Bank Streets completely devoid of any super-franchise shopping, be it H&M, UNIQLO, or something else of the sort? The Glebe is starting to get some high-end local talent set up shop, but they really cater to the new normal $1.5M homes in the Glebe (thanks...Lansdowne...for the property value bump).

Somerset House would be a perfect fast-fashion superstore, with all the environmental pitfalls and extreme foot traffic a place like that comes with.

Perhaps even after all is said and done, Bank wasn't really rebuilt to be pedestrian friendly? Maybe we should have made it one-way only, or no cars at all?

At least with this COVID experiment, the City and commercial business are learning the benefits to outdoor business.

[OTownandDown]

Also, I'm hoping that the tree-lined streets, fountains, and pedestrian-level amenities proposed for Byward come to fruition sooner than 10-15 years. These can be a great destination-builder. Hopefully some of the build-out can match Place des Arts fountains.

[OTownandDown]

Has anyone else seen this transformation? Skanderbeg Square, Albania. Beautiful new city-building exercise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M_ZQ6mH_EU

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I don't get how anyone who has seen Big Ben can day they compare.

Indeed, one is a clock tower attached to a legislature, while the other is a peace tower with a clock, attached to a legislature. I can't imagine how anyone could compare the two ...

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Also, not to say that local shopping isn't important, but how did we end up with Elgin and Bank Streets completely devoid of any super-franchise shopping, be it H&M, UNIQLO, or something else of the sort? The Glebe is starting to get some high-end local talent set up shop, but they really cater to the new normal $1.5M homes in the Glebe (thanks...Lansdowne...for the property value bump).

Somerset House would be a perfect fast-fashion superstore, with all the environmental pitfalls and extreme foot traffic a place like that comes with.

Perhaps even after all is said and done, Bank wasn't really rebuilt to be pedestrian friendly? Maybe we should have made it one-way only, or no cars at all?

At least with this COVID experiment, the City and commercial business are learning the benefits to outdoor business.

Is it? You mean Stag Shop and Boston Pizza? My impression is that the Glebe strip has been in decline for several years now.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Has anyone else seen this transformation? Skanderbeg Square, Albania. Beautiful new city-building exercise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M_ZQ6mH_EU

This is really cool.

Now one thing about large public squares, and this is not just an Ottawa issue, but an issue in many places, is that there is often nothing done to "animate" them.

So unless it's a mandatory "pass-through", ie between two important destinations, or a transit terminus of some kind, why would people go there?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The event program is a shadow of what it used to be, and it was very difficult for visitors to find stuff going on. As I said, there was very little to speak of. The desire to spread it over several sites in recent years (Market, Sparks, etc.) away from the immediate vicinity of the canal, coupled with what I assume are significant reductions to the programming budget, seriously impact things it seems.

In its heyday you had the canal skating rink bookended by a fantastic ice sculpture garden in Confederation Park and a maze of snow sculptures on Dows Lake.

Aside from some (rather brutal) bands playing sporadically on a stage at Fifth Avenue, it was really hard to distinguish the Winterlude weekends from just a regular weekend during the skating season.

They used to have the bed race, an opening night show (I saw Alanis there as a kid), fireworks, a bar with live music in a wooden shack operated by the NAC, etc.)

The transfer of responsibility for Winterlude from the NCC to Canadian Heritage probably hurt the festival. More so, climate change is devastating for the festival. With the exception of 2018-2019 weather and by extension the canal canal can be very unreliable. That's part of the reason why Winterlude seems so disconnected nowadays; Heritage is trying different things to make the event less weather dependent.

That said, I agree many of the events have been down-scaled or canceled though the years and that has impacted quality.

Would love to see SuperEx return, but at LeBreton Flats Park. Ohter than Bluesfest, it's very under utilized. SuperEx would be a great addition.

[silvergate]

This discussion seems to relate a lot to central planning, but some of the most dynamic cities in the world, the ones you go to to experience the culture, or some local scene, got that way because the people in them made it that way.

It's been discussed here before that local BIAs will fight tooth and nail for street parking, but maybe it's time to consider decentralizing local rule making further. Especially on traditional main streets like Bank, Wellington/Richmond, or Beechwood, maybe a local citizens committee with BIA representation should be at least part of the design of rules for that area.

It may not always work out favorably in terms of parking or bike lanes or on-street patios, but it would help to add a distinctive feel to every main street, and the most effective techniques could be copied by other neighbourhoods.

You might travel to a city to see the major sights, but what makes you fall in love with a city is how it feels to be there. Bringing the people who live into the design conversation is one way to improve the feel.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Catenary

There have been a few posts so far about streetcars or trams, and while I think they're a great idea, I think we can all agree that they have a high upfront cost and are unlikely to come to fruition anytime soon.

What doesn't have a high upfront cost is a bus. I could foresee a system run by the NCC serving downtown Ottawa and Gatineau and popular attractions. Neither STO or OC has huge interest in serving the other side of the river apart from the bare necessities, and having two transit authorities also creates a challenge for tourists. OC does serve some local attractions, but I pity the tourist who tries to navigate OC Transpo to get to the Aviation museum. At the same time, when we do run tourist-friendly bus routes like the SNO Bus or the Tulip shuttle, the services are very popular with locals and tourists alike.

An NCC run bus network could be operated by a contractor with rides at a nominal cost, either $1 or $2 work well with loonies and toonies. Electric buses are hitting their stride and would be a good fit. The service would be fare-integrated with OC and STO, so would require both a PRESTO and Multi reader, but this is a challenge that could be overcome.

The benefit of a system like this is that the tourist season is the opposite of the season when transit ridership is highest. Buses could run frequent service between the downtowns in the winter, and less frequent service in the summer, when they would also run more tourist focused seasonal routes.

If this idea seems familiar, it's largely because I stole it from Washington DC's Circulator. There, the system operates separate from the larger regional transit system. It was great to use it to get around with a simple map, rather than having to figure out which bus went where.

That's a good idea.Would love to see the NCC implement this year round to serve all National Museums and major destinations not on an O-Train Line.

Another successful example of such a service that already exists is the shuttle to Gatineau Park during the Fall season.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by silvergate

This discussion seems to relate a lot to central planning, but some of the most dynamic cities in the world, the ones you go to to experience the culture, or some local scene, got that way because the people in them made it that way.

It's been discussed here before that local BIAs will fight tooth and nail for street parking, but maybe it's time to consider decentralizing local rule making further. Especially on traditional main streets like Bank, Wellington/Richmond, or Beechwood, maybe a local citizens committee with BIA representation should be at least part of the design of rules for that area.

It may not always work out favorably in terms of parking or bike lanes or on-street patios, but it would help to add a distinctive feel to every main street, and the most effective techniques could be copied by other neighbourhoods.

You might travel to a city to see the major sights, but what makes you fall in love with a city is how it feels to be there. Bringing the people who live into the design conversation is one way to improve the feel.

I agree,we should be doing a better job promoting our traditional main streets to tourists. With Stage 2, a few of them will be far more accessible/visible.

I would love for the City to rename Gladstone station to Little Italy and Carling to Dow's Lake. I think Dominion station is better situated to be called Westboro (for the beach and the village), though I don't know what the best name would be for the current Westboro station.

Local area maps at Transit stations should highlight traditional main streets and other nearby designations and maybe list local businesses. Add signs pointing the way outside the stations.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Is it? You mean Stag Shop and Boston Pizza? My impression is that the Glebe strip has been in decline for several years now.

Not decline, no. It's moved laterally now for a couple years. Old guard shops have closed, and new blood has moved in.

Coupled with lots of new construction, the likes of which hasn't been seen in years, and the next 12 months in the Glebe should be very exciting.

One big 'missing' piece in Ottawa is St. Catherines or Queen West, with larger multi-national chains coupled with local shops. Why don't we have this? Too many malls?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Not decline, no. It's moved laterally now for a couple years. Old guard shops have closed, and new blood has moved in.

Coupled with lots of new construction, the likes of which hasn't been seen in years, and the next 12 months in the Glebe should be very exciting.

One big 'missing' piece in Ottawa is St. Catherines or Queen West, with larger multi-national chains coupled with local shops. Why don't we have this? Too many malls?

We used to have this with Rideau and Sparks. Both were "high-streets" lined with large, local, department stores. Those areas had been declining for a few years with the surbanization (including malls), and the Rideau Centre was the last nail in the coffin for many.

I think maybe we were/are too small to support such a shopping street, in addition to the malls.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

We used to have this with Rideau and Sparks. Both were "high-streets" lined with large, local, department stores. Those areas had been declining for a few years with the surbanization (including malls), and the Rideau Centre was the last nail in the coffin for many.

I think maybe we were/are too small to support such a shopping street, in addition to the malls.

I've lived here for 15 years, and Sparks has never been anything but lunch for public servants and tourist shops. High street it is not. High streets require a population centre. Maybe in the 1910's-1950's when there was a streetcar line and people came for the extra-large department store experience.

After work, public servants walk down bank and elgin to frequent the local shops and bars.

Queen Street is doing a better job than Sparks lately. Could it be *gasp* the horrible, disorganized, ineffective, overly-complex landlording of the NCC?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

We used to have this with Rideau and Sparks. Both were "high-streets" lined with large, local, department stores. Those areas had been declining for a few years with the surbanization (including malls), and the Rideau Centre was the last nail in the coffin for many.

I think maybe we were/are too small to support such a shopping street, in addition to the malls.

Both too small and too tight - it has been noted before that Ottawa really doesn’t do high-end retail (in Ottawa).

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

I've lived here for 15 years, and Sparks has never been anything but lunch for public servants and tourist shops. High street it is not. High streets require a population centre. Maybe in the 1910's-1950's when there was a streetcar line and people came for the extra-large department store experience.

After work, public servants walk down bank and elgin to frequent the local shops and bars.

Queen Street is doing a better job than Sparks lately. Could it be *gasp* the horrible, disorganized, ineffective, overly-complex landlording of the NCC?

Late 1800s up maybe the 1970s. Sparks has been little more than a glorified food court over the last 40-50 years.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Ottawa has been maligned as the city that fun forgot. I believe that is not really true.

What does Ottawa need to add or change to end that perception?

Ottawa just needs to readjust its workbase and diversify its economy further so that government employees and their offshoots don't comprise such a large percentage of the population. Any government town is sleepy by its very nature and Ottawa is no different. The majority are boring and naturally passive by nature.

[FutureWickedCity]

A few ideas..

More clubs/music venues for sure. Maybe some on the top floors of high rise buildings.

One thing I would love to see is a winter garden, a big indoor park with a greenhouse roof. The roof of Rideau Centre would be ideal. A place to escape the winter.

If DND fully withdraws from their downtown former HQ, I would love to see that site transformed into a huge public space akin to the RA center but with other amenities and possibly residential as well.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by grooveduster

Uhuniau, I dig this city...I'm just trying to envision it as world class, because I think it's possible. You disparage my points, and that's OK, but don't you think we should "raise the bar" and not be satisfied with mediocrity?

Oh, we absolutely should be raising the bar and not settling for mediocrity.

Unfortunately Ottawans are too cheap to spend much of their own public resources to raise said bar, the province of which Ottawa is a part barely knows anything exists out of clear-day sight of the CN Tower, and federal priorities for spending on the national capital are mired in radiantgardencitybeautiful thinkin of 70 and 80 years ago.

The 'proposed park' I was referring to was imaginary...it could be Lebreton...some useless piece of disputed unused land turned into something cool. It bugs me that there are so many unused parks in Ottawa, and not a single "central" park.

I question the very idea that a "central" park is needed or desireable, or that Ottawa suffers from any shortage of parks. It really, genuinely, honest-to-godly baffles me, the mindset that is absolute and unquestionable orthodoxy in Ottawa, that we lack parks and that various of our urban problems could be solved by just making more of them.

I'm not advocating for more green space, just a single really cool big green space, you know? Work with me here....we're on the same forum....we're on the same page.

Why is a "single really cool big green space" a necessity, and why don't our existing, under-used big green spaces not already fit the bill? Those are the questions I'd be working on.