Living in Gatineau vs Ottawa

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by harls

If you are talking about rue Principale, it is most definitely not what you describe. It's changed a lot, even in the 13 years I've been living here.

When I moved here, it reminded me a bit of Monkland Avenue in Montreal with the volume knob at half.

It's not that far away... if you have a car, I guess.

Downtown Aylmer is kick ass these days. It has a wonderful village ambiance and there are great eateries and bars. It's exactly as far from downtown as Bayshore is on the Ontario side, not a big deal by car as you say.

[wingman]

TL;DR - moved from east coast, been living in Gatineau for 19 years, no regrets.

I moved to Hull in 2001 from the east coast. Never in my life did I ever expect to live in Quebec. The company I worked for put us up for 4 months when we relocated. The first thing we (wife and 3 year old) said at the time was, we're moving to Ottawa in 4 months. 19 years later and we're still here; having lived in de l'Ile, le Plateau and Bellevue (south west portion in Gatineau). Wife works in Ottawa, still doesn't speak any French but understands it well. I can piece together what I need and understand it very well.

The reason we stayed was the cost of living (overall). We were not well off (still not really), so buying a house in Ottawa was never going to happen, nothing decent anyway. With a child the cost of day care allowed my wife to work and the subsidized sports and activities (i.e. summer camps) made it all worth while. On top of that, and someone already mentioned this, the English schoolboard (WQSB) is top notch. Our child did French immersion from K through 11 and is fully bilingual (to the point where their work team thought French was their first language). Add on the cheaper insurance costs, cheaper public transit lower taxes (due to lower house valuation of course) and economical post-secondary costs it was a no brainer for us. I pay ~200 more per pay in income tax, so say 7k a year maybe give or take. But again, our family could not financially succeed in Ottawa as we have over here so you do what works for you. Coming from the east coast, Quebec and Ontario are the same with different languages essentially so there really wasn't a preference as to where we lived. And after that first 4 months it became pretty clear to us that language was not a reason to avoid Gatineau. Also, one has to remember Gatineau is a little unique in such that there are people from every corner of Quebec living here.

I work with a lot of people, many franco-Ontarians and they almost spit at the idea of living in Quebec... hell even crossing the bridges for any reason (Costco excluded). I find it amusing, but I guess there is some cultural back story there that I never really dug into. For the rest of my east coast friends, most live on the Ottawa side and I am sure they have no regrets either.

The only sub par thing I find living here is the health care, its not that its not good, its that they lack the numbers to provide it properly. The Outaouais has what, a 365k population? The region seems to be staffed for about 150k population... From family doctors, to specialists to in hospital staff there is a shortage. The CAQ is at least recognizing this, maybe it becomes a trend?

As I said, 19 years on for us and we have absolutely no regrets.

PS - the only reason we did not move to Aylmer after le Plateau was so our child could stay in the same high school; again no regrets on that decision either in the end.

[Harley613]

I'm with you all the way Wingman. I am a born and raised Calgarian with a very basic understanding of French but I am working on it while I raise a bilingual kid between Wakefield and the Plateau. Mom still lives in Wakefield and I am in the Plateau and my daughter is enrolled Grand-Boisé in Chelsea between us. Aside from the healthcare situation which will potentially be resolved in the coming decade I am very very happy with the social services, affordability and general lifestyle in the Outaouais. My girlfriend, my daughter, and I love the Outaouais and couldn't be happier as a family.

[Acajack]

As you guys alluded to, I am sure that if you're in an Ottawa milieu that many people are completely flabbergasted that as anglophones you choose to live on the Quebec side of the river.

Anglophones mostly but as has been said Franco-Ontarians too. Though the latter group has gotten less intense than they used to be about that. The political situation has changed (mellowed out) and Ottawa for a francophone has changed a lot too: much more visible bilingualism in terms of public signage and paperwork, etc., but ironically a near-total collapse of opportunities to use French in everyday life when out and about. Unless of course you're in the company of your own francophone friends.

A relative of my wife's moved to Ottawa from the GTA a number of years ago, and while there is more "stuff" in French in Ottawa (radio stations, books, newspapers, social clubs, etc.), when going about one's business every day they admit they don't really use French much more at the grocery store, with neighbours, with the repairman, bus drivers, than they did in the GTA.

(Most) Franco-Ontarians will still stick to Ottawa no matter what, though. And their anglophone grandkids will be grateful to them for that, I'm sure!

[Marshsparrow]

Outside of Gatineau and Montreal many anglophones and alophones still feel like second class citizens - Bill 101 and the various secularism bills I suspect have much to do with it.

[kevinbottawa]

When I first moved from Toronto to Ottawa my car insurance went down $100 a month. Then when I moved over to Gatineau it went down another $100 a month. Eventually, we moved back to Ottawa. Having grown up in the GTA for my whole life, there were some subtle differences in living in Quebec that were odd. Plus, my wife doesn't speak French so she eventually had enough of going to the store having the cashier either not being willing to speak English or not being able to speak English. But we look back at our time years and a half in Gatineau with fondness. We lived in a good neighbourhood (near the hospital). It was a great place to start out.

[kwoldtimer]

For many in Ottawa, it would be unthinkable to llve across the river. For reasons that have little or nothing to do with language.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

When I first moved from Toronto to Ottawa my car insurance went down $100 a month. Then when I moved over to Gatineau it went down another $100 a month. Eventually, we moved back to Ottawa. Having grown up in the GTA for my whole life, there were some subtle differences in living in Quebec that were odd. Plus, my wife doesn't speak French so she eventually had enough of going to the store having the cashier either not being willing to speak English or not being able to speak English. But we look back at our time years and a half in Gatineau with fondness. We lived in a good neighbourhood (near the hospital). It was a great place to start out.

I'm surprised about the language thing. I speak C level French if barely and I can't think of more than a handful of times I was allowed to complete a transaction in French. I almost always start in French so maybe that's all it takes, but English is really widespread in Gatineau in my experience.

Curious about subtle differences. I think you might find a lot of these. I certainly find more similarities than maybe between other provinces in some ways. Language obviously a big exception to that.

[Kitchissippi]

If you are into community involvement like neighbourhood associations or advocacy groups, language can be a big thing. I lived on the Quebec side for a few years and I personally find it easier to participate in public affairs in Ottawa. Also, even though we complain about the urban/suburban divide, it actually far more balanced in Ottawa whereas Gatineau is clearly skewed to suburban.

[OTownandDown]

Of all my friends and colleagues who made the jump to Quebec, the number one factor was having more than one child in daycare. (in fact, all of them moved to have more kids). Saving tens of thousands a year in daycare fees is enough of an incentive.

In Ontario, after two kids, its more financially sustainable to have one partner just *not* work, rather than hiring a live-in nanny (which is the cheapest option, compared to daycare in Ontario)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

Outside of Gatineau and Montreal many anglophones and alophones still feel like second class citizens - Bill 101 and the various secularism bills I suspect have much to do with it.

I would say that while Gatineau and Montreal may be better on a practical level, the mindset and societal conditions that led to Bill 101 and the secularism debate are still very present in both cities.

If you have serious issues with any of that stuff you'll likely only be marginally happier in Gatineau/Montreal than in the rest of Quebec.

If Gatineau truly was a mini "Ontario"/"ROC (rest of Canada)" on Quebec territory, it would be much larger and have a far greater share of its population from across the river.

As such, non-francophone Ontarians are way more likely to move to historically francophone places that happen to be in Ontario like Orleans, Rockland, Embrun, etc. than they are to Gatineau. (With the resulting demographic changes to those places that we all know about.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

If you are into community involvement like neighbourhood associations or advocacy groups, language can be a big thing. I lived on the Quebec side for a few years and I personally find it easier to participate in public affairs in Ottawa. Also, even though we complain about the urban/suburban divide, it actually far more balanced in Ottawa whereas Gatineau is clearly skewed to suburban.

I think this is a very good point.

If you look at Kevin's and YOWetal's posts, it's one thing to be able to get by in everyday life with only minor inconveniences. I mean, I could get by anywhere in the world without starving and not having clothes on my back. And I also think that French isn't that different from English that even the least linguistically gifted aren't able to figure the essentials out.

But that's a very different from actually feeling at home and in a place and wanting to put down roots there. You pointed to community involvement but it can also be as simple as something like coaching your kid's soccer or hockey team.

Obviously, it's not impossible to do but if you look at those who are truly living the dream (), they've all pretty much gone "full native": city councillor Mike Duggan, and our three federal MPs Greg Fergus, William Amos and Steven MacKinnon. I believe at least three and maybe even all four of them have francophone spouses so that no doubt helps a lot.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

For many in Ottawa, it would be unthinkable to llve across the river. For reasons that have little or nothing to do with language.

Lived in Ottawa for six years and never once considered moving across the river. From horror stories of dealing with Quebec provincial agencies to simply having everything I needed in Ottawa I didn't see the need to live in an area that was less transit-friendly with fewer amenities further away from job nodes. As someone without a car Gatineau was simply not feasible.

[wingman]

Some really good points here.

As an anglo, one of the concerns I had was being able to have access to critical services in English (prov and local government, doctor, notary, pharmacy, etc.). Sometimes not being fluent in the language can be somewhat potentially hindering. I have not had this issue, period. From 811 to the local hospitals to the city and provincial services sectors I've really never had an issue.

One thing I would say is MTL being such a large area, they do have a lot more services in English than Gatineau does... this is where access to Ottawa can come in to play, for better or worse it is something affects the level of English services available on the QC side of the river.

The person who mentioned being involved in community groups has a very good point, I would say that is pretty much a no go if your are anglo-only. I would say that the Outaouais is a very large and active English community with newsletters, meetings, etc etc. I think its still called the Regional Association of West Quebecers (https://qcgn.ca/us/).

Someone also said they were tired of not being served in English, I find people switch too quickly for my liking. I want to get better in French, they want to serve me as well as they can... I am to the point now where they don't switch until they say something I don't understand lol. There may be some small pockets of French-only but they are small imo, even in Gatineau proper we never have an issue.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by wingman

Someone also said they were tired of not being served in English, I find people switch too quickly for my liking. I want to get better in French, they want to serve me as well as they can... I am to the point now where they don't switch until they say something I don't understand lol. There may be some small pockets of French-only but they are small imo, even in Gatineau proper we never have an issue.

That's definitely been my experience. My French is quite good, but the Southwestern Ontario accent is hard to hide, and I find that 9 times out of 10, the person will switch to English on me. That 1 time out of 10 when they don't try to switch is usually in Gatineau proper, not Hull or Aylmer.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wingman

Some really good points here.

As an anglo, one of the concerns I had was being able to have access to critical services in English (prov and local government, doctor, notary, pharmacy, etc.). Sometimes not being fluent in the language can be somewhat potentially hindering. I have not had this issue, period. From 811 to the local hospitals to the city and provincial services sectors I've really never had an issue.

One thing I would say is MTL being such a large area, they do have a lot more services in English than Gatineau does... this is where access to Ottawa can come in to play, for better or worse it is something affects the level of English services available on the QC side of the river.

The person who mentioned being involved in community groups has a very good point, I would say that is pretty much a no go if your are anglo-only. I would say that the Outaouais is a very large and active English community with newsletters, meetings, etc etc. I think its still called the Regional Association of West Quebecers (https://qcgn.ca/us/).

Someone also said they were tired of not being served in English, I find people switch too quickly for my liking. I want to get better in French, they want to serve me as well as they can... I am to the point now where they don't switch until they say something I don't understand lol. There may be some small pockets of French-only but they are small imo, even in Gatineau proper we never have an issue.

The experiences seem quite mixed and variable.

Since I lived outside Quebec as a francophone for a long time, I am often attuned to "barriers to living in English in Quebec" and so if I am attentive I do notice such things.

There do seem to be some, mostly from the municipal and provincial government levels, but also from the private sector as well.

Stuff like when you call an agency for an appointment and the phone message is only in French. In practice the majority of them do have the option of "pressing 9" for English but those that don't are not that rare. Recently I had to call to set up appointments for various public services for a family member and a decent number of places did not have an English option. Not that I needed it, but those days I happened to pay attention and thought "no English option, that's interesting".

And some of these services are region-wide so even if you're living in Aylmer you're calling the same number.

Also signage as we all know is very frequently in French only. It's no big deal if it says ENTRÉE or SORTIE or ARRÊT but when it's a sign in a building that says "you must do this before you do this otherwise you won't get what you want and won't be happy", it's a bit of pain in the ass if you don't understand it.

As I've mentioned before there is also the informal stuff that is often yelled out to members of the public with the assumption that everyone understands, such as "the stop for route 52 has moved today so you need to cross the street and walk down the block and take it next to the daycare centre, and hurry up he'll be there in 2 minutes" or "checkout number four is only accepting cash, no debit or credit". Then you line up unknowingly and let the cashier ring all your stuff in, only to find out you can't pay with no cards and you have no cash on you.

These are just examples. I know they don't happen that often but they'd happen often enough (even if very sporadically) for it to get on my nerves. These things have happened to me in other countries but never anywhere I was living permanently.

Another example is that locally-produced products that are more "artisanal"often have labelling and especially the long list of ingredients, only in French. That would be a big concern for me if I or my kids were allergic. Though obviously we're in the era of smart phones so you can always translate the words on the label.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by phil235

That's definitely been my experience. My French is quite good, but the Southwestern Ontario accent is hard to hide, and I find that 9 times out of 10, the person will switch to English on me. That 1 time out of 10 when they don't try to switch is usually in Gatineau proper, not Hull or Aylmer.

My Nouveau Brunswick full immersion was never considered good enough for much Franco-dialogue in Gatineau. Most switched to English after a few words.

People from France i've met have had more patience than Quebeckers.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

My Nouveau Brunswick full immersion was never considered good enough for much Franco-dialogue in Gatineau. Most switched to English after a few words.

People from France i've met have had more patience than Quebeckers.

I am sure it's just because they could understand you better, since you learned "Parisian French"!

[harls]

I like to play a game, where if the person switches to English, I keep talking French. Most of the time, they will switch back if they see how stubborn you are.

[Nowhere]

French is my first language, but I still wouldn't consider living in Gatineau, since I absolutely need prescription medications. The Québec goverment is letting people die from lack of health care in Gatineau and Montréal because building freeways to rural areas in Eastern Québec is often more politically popular. It seems that for a lot people, it's a larger factor than language for not wanting to live on the Québec side.

It's great to see that a new hospital will be built, but if there's not enough staff, it might be basically unusable just like the Hull and Gatineau hospitals.