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View Poll Results: Most connected to Europe?
NYC 41 46.59%
Toronto 8 9.09%
Chicago 7 7.95%
Montreal 30 34.09%
Other 2 2.27%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 5:48 PM
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to tell you the truth, I prefer Jacksonville's Kielbasa to Chicago's. I know you guys are going to roast me, but I stand by my words.


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  #42  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 5:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post
I'm thinking of picking New York, due to raw numbers, but Montreal seems to be more "European" in feel.


NYC may have European influence with the Jews, Italians, Irish, etc, but a lot of those people form an "American" culture here which is a bit distinct from Europe. This goes for other groups as well. The city is very international and very domestic at the same time.
Well, to be fair Montreal also has a homegrown, domestic "French Canadian" identity that's separate from the "immigrants and expats from France" culture, even if the latter is also very influential.
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  #43  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 5:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
to tell you the truth, I prefer Jacksonville's Kielbasa to Chicago's. I know you guys are going to roast me, but I stand by my words.
jacksonville also has a more impressive skyline than chicago too. and a way, WAY, WAY better football team as well.

why does jacksonville always have better stuff? sausages, football, skyscrapers, probably better pizza too.

fuck you, jacksonville, and all of your superior shit.
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  #44  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 5:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
Well, to be fair Montreal also has a homegrown, domestic "French Canadian" identity that's separate from the "immigrants and expats from France" culture, even if the latter is also very influential.


Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Well then, for me, they have roughly the same influence with some European connections more represented than others.
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  #45  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 5:58 PM
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This forum has just gotten soooo Jacksonville centric.

It's like no other city even exists or something.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 6:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
So the French immigrants here in Quebec are much more visible (or should I say audible) than the British immigrants in the rest of the country.
Yeah, it's kind of rare to hear British accents in much of Anglo-Canada (unless you're in a setting that has lots of international people in general). It's not as common to "expect" a British accent walking around on the street in Toronto, than a European French (not Canadian French) accent walking around the street in Montreal.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 6:08 PM
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For New York city, the European tourist influence is really notable, probably more than the others.

Another thing I wonder about residents of all these four cities:

When you hear a foreign European-language accent, is it more likely that you assume said person is a tourist/expat, or a "local" who immigrated but is actually a resident of the city, or has been for a while?

Does the answer differ widely among the four cities?
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  #48  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 6:11 PM
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UK was top country of origin for migrants to Canada as recently as 2005, with 579,620 in total living there, whereas the French accounted for only 79,550. That may have changed in recent years as less Brits currently emigrate to Canada and many older Brits from previous waves of migration will have died, but 2011 figures still show over 600,000 Brits in Canada. Maybe they just lose their accent quicker than the French. There are however more Brits (700,000) in the US than there are in Canada.
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  #49  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 6:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
For New York city, the European tourist influence is really notable, probably more than the others.

Another thing I wonder about residents of all these four cities:

When you hear a foreign European-language accent, is it more likely that you assume said person is a tourist/expat, or a "local" who immigrated but is actually a resident of the city, or has been for a while?

Does the answer differ widely among the four cities?
If I hear a foreign European accent in tourist areas in Manhattan, I more than likely assume that person is a tourist or expat. If I hear the accent in the outer boroughs, I assume the person is a local resident.
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  #50  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 6:31 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnypd View Post
UK was top country of origin for migrants to Canada as recently as 2005, with 579,620 in total living there, whereas the French accounted for only 79,550. That may have changed in recent years as less Brits currently emigrate to Canada and many older Brits from previous waves of migration will have died, but 2011 figures still show over 600,000 Brits in Canada. Maybe they just lose their accent quicker than the French. There are however more Brits (700,000) in the US than there are in Canada.
Maybe another thing that makes the British accent less noticeable in Canada than French could be if a lot of those stats for Brits from past generations involved them immigrating as children (and thus losing their accent as adults), and maybe more French immigrate as former adult expats or students?
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  #51  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 6:43 PM
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Whitestone is post-war Italian/Greek, not "Ellis Island" Italian/Greek or Irish American copland:

https://statisticalatlas.com/zip/11357/Languages
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  #52  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 7:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
For New York city, the European tourist influence is really notable, probably more than the others.

Another thing I wonder about residents of all these four cities:

When you hear a foreign European-language accent, is it more likely that you assume said person is a tourist/expat, or a "local" who immigrated but is actually a resident of the city, or has been for a while?

Does the answer differ widely among the four cities?
In Toronto and Montreal, a local.

In NYC, a tourist/expat in Manhattan, a local in the outer boroughs.

Chicago - don't know.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 7:11 PM
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I don't know about Canada, but in both New York or Chicago when you hear a foreign accent it means nothing. You really can't tell if they live there or are visitors.

For Chicago one clue is if they are walking around downtown in groups and with shopping bags. More likely tourists. If they are out in the neighborhoods pushing a shopping cart or sitting at a pub--you're looking at a local
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  #54  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 7:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
In Toronto and Montreal, a local.

In NYC, a tourist/expat in Manhattan, a local in the outer boroughs.

Chicago - don't know.
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
I don't know about Canada, but in both New York or Chicago when you hear a foreign accent it means nothing. You really can't tell if they live there or are visitors.

For Chicago one clue is if they are walking around downtown in groups and with shopping bags. More likely tourists. If they are out in the neighborhoods pushing a shopping cart or sitting at a pub--you're looking at a local
I suspect that in all of these cities, the foreign-accent person will have proportionally a greater chance to be assumed a local in the more outlying/suburban/residential areas, and proportionally more likely a tourist downtown.

But perhaps, in New York and Chicago's case there's enough foreign tourists downtown (relative to local commuters) that the perception is stronger, relative to the case for Montreal and Toronto?
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  #55  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 7:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnypd View Post
UK was top country of origin for migrants to Canada as recently as 2005, with 579,620 in total living there, whereas the French accounted for only 79,550. That may have changed in recent years as less Brits currently emigrate to Canada and many older Brits from previous waves of migration will have died, but 2011 figures still show over 600,000 Brits in Canada. Maybe they just lose their accent quicker than the French. There are however more Brits (700,000) in the US than there are in Canada.
That's the total migrant stock though, most of those probably migrated from the 1950s to 1980s rather than in more recent years.

I was looking at annual numbers over the past few years and Canada seems to get 5,000-8,000 per year from the UK over the past decade or so which is similar to the numbers of British people going to New Zealand. Australia seems to get around 20,000-25,000 per year which doesn't surprise me, many Brits moving to other countries are looking for warm climates to relax in rather than doing it purely for the purposes of getting a job somewhere.

It's a bit more difficult to track down annual figures for Brits moving to EU countries but Spain and France are the most popular, again in many cases for lifestyle reasons while Germany, Netherlands etc are more popular for work-related migration from anecdotal experience.

Other wildcards like the UAE are also popular for work-related migration for UK residents, around 100,000-150,000 British people live there apparently but I haven't found any figures for annual migration flows.
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  #56  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 7:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
Yeah, it's kind of rare to hear British accents in much of Anglo-Canada (unless you're in a setting that has lots of international people in general). It's not as common to "expect" a British accent walking around on the street in Toronto, than a European French (not Canadian French) accent walking around the street in Montreal.
As someone who has spent and spends a lot of time in both French and English speaking Canada, yeah... it's definitely more common these days to hear French accents in Quebec, and those speakers are noticeably younger as well.

Back when I was a kid in the 70s and 80s I grew up in various places in Anglo-Canada (Maritimes and Ontario) and British accents were way more common back then. More than a few of my friends had either parents or grandparents who were British.

This doesn't mean that you *never* hear British accents in Toronto, Ottawa, Halifax or Calgary, but it's not really very common anymore. Often when it's a young person it's often that they're working as a barmaid/barman in a pub or something like that as part of a globe-trotting working holiday trip...

Of course, there are small "accent pockets" too. They're not British of course but Aussie accents are quite common in Western Canadian ski resorts like Whistler, for example.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 7:58 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnypd View Post
UK was top country of origin for migrants to Canada as recently as 2005, with 579,620 in total living there, whereas the French accounted for only 79,550. That may have changed in recent years as less Brits currently emigrate to Canada and many older Brits from previous waves of migration will have died, but 2011 figures still show over 600,000 Brits in Canada. Maybe they just lose their accent quicker than the French. There are however more Brits (700,000) in the US than there are in Canada.
As I mentioned on a previous page, British immigrants to Canada are also more spread out across the country, contrary to French immigrants who concentrate in one province (Quebec), and even in one city (Montreal) and even to some degree in certain specific areas of that city.

The Plateau Mont-Royal district in Montreal is often referred to as le 21e arrondissement de Paris.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 8:04 PM
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Besides Vancouver Island there really isn't a concentration of British immigrants in Canada.
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  #59  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 8:09 PM
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Surprised no one mentioned the SF Bay Area.
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  #60  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 8:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
Well, to be fair Montreal also has a homegrown, domestic "French Canadian" identity that's separate from the "immigrants and expats from France" culture, even if the latter is also very influential.
Indeed it is. But even though it holds its own, the homegrown culture in Montreal is nowhere near the all-encompassing juggernaut that the American culture can be in New York.

This definitely makes the local mainstream culture more permeable to outside cultural influences, be they American, European French or of other origins.
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