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  #81  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 5:31 AM
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That is another thing that the Great Lakes Cities (In the American side) have in common. They are extremely centralized at the coast and expand from there.


DSC_1146.jpg by Giles Moger, on Flickr


Cleveland, OH by Anomalous_A, on Flickr


Detroit by Chris Parfeniuk, on Flickr



And yeah, I know most American cities are centralized like this, but this is more apparent here. Only the Northeastern cities are this centralized as a group. Many Sunbelt cities have more than one node and there is considerable distance between them.
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  #82  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 5:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Segun View Post
Atlanta is starting to resemble LA.

Like LA, Atlanta started off suburban, but has grown to the point where it's at capacity and has to build up. There are a LOT of new midrises, highrises and lowrises around the city, to the point where its starting to push the limit of suburbia. There are intersections where the highrises are bunched up and forming canyons. The traffic is worse than LA too, on the freeway and the street.

https://goo.gl/maps/zoeNQi3qMdQ2 - Put some Palm Trees in this shot and it could double for an LA satellite city, or a city along Ventura Blvd. Like LA, the new construction in Atlanta is very colorful and outrageous. It has to get motorists attention. Peachtree is becoming the counterpart to Wilshire and there are ethnic burbs like LA. I'd say that ATL is more similar to suburban DC though.
Most of Atlanta doesn't look like Peachtree, just like most of LA doesn't look like Wilshire.

I guess I just take issue with the idea of "cherry-picking" one view and saying that this city looks like that city (you could do that with really any place if you tried hard enough). What about the overall picture? You explained it beautifully in the second half of your post. It sounds like we're in agreement then.
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  #83  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 5:40 AM
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Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
But that's the thing. You've picked a couple of blocks and used a comparison for the entire downtowns' from that. It's just weird. That block doesn't represent downtown LA. It's actually one of the least interesting parts. That will change in the future, but it's hardly an area Angeleno's hang out at right now.

I'm sure someone from Baltimore or Pittsburgh can pick out a block or two that's similar to Manhattan. Hell, you can do that with LA. That doesn't mean those places are like NYC.
Yep. This is pretty black/white for me.

Anyone could post a link to a Google Streetview of Boston's Financial District and say that it resembles Lower Manhattan. It doesn't mean that Boston looks like Manhattan or NYC overall because it's an incredibly small sample size with very little context.

Talk about a leap.
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  #84  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 5:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Segun View Post
Atlanta is starting to resemble LA.

Like LA, Atlanta started off suburban, but has grown to the point where it's at capacity and has to build up. There are a LOT of new midrises, highrises and lowrises around the city, to the point where its starting to push the limit of suburbia. There are intersections where the highrises are bunched up and forming canyons. The traffic is worse than LA too, on the freeway and the street.

https://goo.gl/maps/zoeNQi3qMdQ2 - Put some Palm Trees in this shot and it could double for an LA satellite city, or a city along Ventura Blvd. Like LA, the new construction in Atlanta is very colorful and outrageous. It has to get motorists attention. Peachtree is becoming the counterpart to Wilshire and there are ethnic burbs like LA. I'd say that ATL is more similar to suburban DC though.

LA is grittier though. LA is grittier than any sunbelt city not on the West Coast by far. LA has a very worn out look to it in most of the city. Its misleading if you look at footage or drive by fast. When you look closer you see all sorts of dingy, stained sidewalks, hand made signs, buildings with bars on the windows with stucco crumbling, and trash in some areas that's as bad or worse than any East Coast city. There's just too many streets with too much stuff going on across LA to compare it. This shot right here is something you'll only find in LA:

https://goo.gl/maps/BYCWXPicZRt - The density of stores is like that of a walkable neighborhood in an East Coast city, though there are virtually no people walking.

Your average LA block could have
- a few 1 story buildings right up to the sidewalk
- a 2 story strip mall with 45 stores
- a Dennys
- a 10 story indoor mall/movie theater complex with obnoxious signs
- a neo futuristic 80s bank with some bizarre outdoor Palm tree showcase
- a giant neon chicken advertising a car wash
- a glass and steel Chipotle with outdoor seating overlooking the car wash
- a Mattress Warehouse with 6 clashing colors of paint used on its facade
- a blue and white stucco Korean electronics store
- a few single family homes that date back to when it was a small town
- and then the odd 1930's walkup apartment building just to throw it off.

And it will still feel gritty and seedy somehow. No rhyme or reason, its Amazing. Its a bizarre Twilight Zone city. And it's not just this picture, its nearly every other street that's like this. That's why it rarely feels quiet, traffic everywhere you go, everywhere. LA is not suburbia. Its Cyborgsuburbia.
nm
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  #85  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 6:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
Most of Atlanta doesn't look like Peachtree, just like most of LA doesn't look like Wilshire.

I guess I just take issue with the idea of "cherry-picking" one view and saying that this city looks like that city (you could do that with really any place if you tried hard enough). What about the overall picture? You explained it beautifully in the second half of your post. It sounds like we're in agreement then.
Yea, Peachtree might be similar to wilshire, but the rest of Atlanta doesnt look like la at all. The retail section of the Atlanta pic isn't even as packed as Encino or Sherman Oaks. it might be more vertical, but where the hell are the businesses? it just looks like a bland office park.

la is bizarre , both good and bad. I just dont see another place resembling it.
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  #86  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 6:31 AM
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I really don't have anything against Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, or Miami. Each has qualities that I'm envious of and wish LA had. But I just don't see the similarities beyond a very superficial (granted, this thread is about appearance... it says so in the title) level. That's my honest opinion, without the homer glasses. The Atlanta comparison in particular is bizarre. I've actually been to Atlanta, and not once did I ever feel as if I was in a place like LA. The large African American population, thick tree coverage, brick architecture, clean freeways, sprawling airport, lack of a grid structure, etc. are all pretty foreign to me as an Angeleno.

Miami also felt pretty different. Okay, so we have beaches, palm trees, and Latinos. Big deal.
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  #87  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 6:43 AM
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Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post

Half of the West Coast (California) is part of the Sun Belt (Which is just all of the states that are in the southern half of the country. However, California developed before much of the rest. It had a good resource (gold) to attract people and people stayed and came for the weather and the economic opportunities that it grew to provide (oil, film, tech, food, etc). San Francisco developed largely before the world wars and is built in a dense fashion that is similar to the Northeast but unique in its own way. Los Angeles developed greatly prewar and interwar but reached its prominence afterwards. Even then, it has a dense suburban layout that gives people space and is continuous.

I've never been to LA but based on the photos I've seen, its older areas have a weird similarity to Minneapolis and Denver. They aren't exactly the same but seem to be cut from the same cloth - vast swathes of 1920s streetcar suburbia, craftsman houses, bungalows, lots of stucco, vernacular prairie school apartment buildings, Spanish revival. The three of them were built the same way in the same era.
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  #88  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 6:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
First you said they were "clones."

Then you said they were "fraternal twins."

Then you pretty much made my point for me.
I only changed it because you chose to break it down and analyze it so much. The fact is that Houston, Dallas and Atlanta are all fraternal twins. They don't look exactly the same but are similar in function and stature. That's the way I feel.
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  #89  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 6:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chef View Post
I've never been to LA but based on the photos I've seen, its older areas have a weird similarity to Minneapolis and Denver. They aren't exactly the same but seem to be cut from the same cloth - vast swathes of 1920s streetcar suburbia, craftsman houses, bungalows, lots of stucco, vernacular prairie school apartment buildings, Spanish revival. The three of them were built the same way in the same era.
Why Denver? Because there's a big mountain behind Downtown?
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  #90  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 1:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
I've always liked the look of sumac trees too. Sometimes they're purposely grown as garden plants but you'll also see them scattered around all kinds of places, in the margins of neighborhoods, by roadsides, parking lots, and in parks and forest edges.

Sumac fruit in powdered form as a spice is used in Middle Eastern cuisines -- one of the Mediterranean/southern European species of sumac is used as one of the ingredients in za'atar spice mix. Native peoples in North America also consumed the berries of some edible sumac species -- those of the staghorn sumac found in Ontario and Quebec, and the northeast US can be ground, strained and used to make syrup for a pink lemonade. Though on the other hand, there's also a species of sumac, the poison sumac in North America that's toxic and causes rashes (more so than even poison ivy) found in wet swampy soil.




The word 'sumac' traces its etymology from Old French sumac (13th century), from Mediaeval Latin sumach, from Arabic summāq (سماق), from Syriac summāq (ܣܡܘܩ)- meaning "red".


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumac#Etymology
In modern French the sumac is known as "vinaigrier" which actually means vinegar tree.
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  #91  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 3:35 PM
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There seem to be a lot of questions about the thread topic. I did not intend for the subject to be interpreted as "in x region, cities a, b, and c all look exactly the same in every way, shape, and form." My point is that there are a lot of shared characteristics between places like the Great Lakes cities. Chicago's geography is flatter than Toronto's, but the two cities have a very similar appearance from above. There are glaring differences at street level, but even then the form is fairly similar. I didn't intend for anyone to hyper focus on one particular, but compare these cities holistically.

LA may feel a bit like Atlanta in the sense that they both lack a central area that businesses and cultural amenities gravitate towards, but the development patterns aren't that similar IMO. LA isn't New York or Chicago, but it is fairly dense for being almost entirely detached SFHs. TBH, parts of LA feel a bit like some fringe neighborhoods and inner ring suburbs of Chicago to me.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9633...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9527...7i13312!8i6656

Atlanta's grid falls before it even gets started, really. This is Atlanta ~4 miles north of downtown.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7911...7i13312!8i6656

That looks more like Charlotte to me
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  #92  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 4:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ThePhun1 View Post
I'd say Oakland does more than San Francisco. There's no place to find a San Francisco anywhere else in the US.
SF's rowhome topography is more similar to the Mid-Atlantic than anything else in the country.

Much of why the Lakes cities look so similar visually is that they were developed in the same way, on similar topography, at the same time. The differences in vernacular are incredibly slight and it takes a trained eye to spot them.

I would also add I don't buy the whole Chicago-is-pancake-flat thing. Multiple terminal moraines (low relief) run through Chicagoland and the whole damn place is where it is because of a gap through the hill between the lake and the headwaters of the Illinois River. In fact, this belt of terminal moraines define the southern edge of the Great Lakes system, hydrologically, which is why the headwaters of the Allegheny (which are the hydrological headwaters of the Mississippi River system, believe it or not) are so close to Lake Erie ... and why the Illinois' headwaters are a stone's throw from Lake Michigan, even though those rivers drain into the Gulf of Mexico, a thousand miles the wrong way away.
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Last edited by hammersklavier; Jan 28, 2018 at 4:22 PM.
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  #93  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 4:16 PM
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Tried to find recent satellite imagery of the largest Great Lakes cities. These cities are textbook urban planning and development come to life IMO. Certainly for North America.

Chicago, Illinois
https://i.imgur.com/6nShUod.jpg
https://cbschicago.files.wordpress.c...from-space.jpg

Cleveland, Ohio
http://www.pictureninja.com/pages/un...-cleveland.JPG
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...nd%2C_Ohio.jpg

Detroit, Michigan
http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/cac2aba568...une-ex6rcc.jpg
http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townn...dcfe.image.jpg

Milwaukee, Wisconsin
https://i.pinimg.com/600x315/a1/37/c...6cc5a48bd9.jpg

https://cityprints-wpengine.netdna-s...9/lt_mil_1.jpg

Toronto, Ontario
http://n7.alamy.com/zooms/8c41b685a5...ust-ex6nmx.jpg
https://torontoist.com/wp-content/up...ieldspace5.jpg

Chicago and Milwaukee are brothers.

Chicago River @ Wells St
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8875...7i13312!8i6656
Chicago River @ State St
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8877...7i13312!8i6656

Milwaukee River @ Wells St
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0405...7i13312!8i6656
Milwaukee River @ State St
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0429...7i13312!8i6656

Milwaukee is not as built up as Chicago, but similar foundations.

Last edited by IrishIllini; Jan 28, 2018 at 5:50 PM.
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  #94  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 4:25 PM
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Toronto and Detroit seem very similar, especially the suburbs. Toronto has that segmented land use peculiarity though (shopping centers mixed in with light industrial buildings).

http://mapmerizer.mikavaa.com/#11;42...se;false;false

random suburbs of Detroit and Toronto: separated at birth?

http://mapmerizer.mikavaa.com/#13;42...se;false;false
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  #95  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 4:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishIllini View Post
There seem to be a lot of questions about the thread topic. I did not intend for the subject to be interpreted as "in x region, cities a, b, and c all look exactly the same in every way, shape, and form." My point is that there are a lot of shared characteristics between places like the Great Lakes cities. Chicago's geography is flatter than Toronto's, but the two cities have a very similar appearance from above. There are glaring differences at street level, but even then the form is fairly similar. I didn't intend for anyone to hyper focus on one particular, but compare these cities holistically.

LA may feel a bit like Atlanta in the sense that they both lack a central area that businesses and cultural amenities gravitate towards, but the development patterns aren't that similar IMO. LA isn't New York or Chicago, but it is fairly dense for being almost entirely detached SFHs. TBH, parts of LA feel a bit like some fringe neighborhoods and inner ring suburbs of Chicago to me.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9633...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9527...7i13312!8i6656

Atlanta's grid falls before it even gets started, really. This is Atlanta ~4 miles north of downtown.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7911...7i13312!8i6656

That looks more like Charlotte to me
Yea, I think LA and Chicago have things in common. The street grid is similar, and the Valley to me is a newer version of Chicago's bunaglow belt, with some exceptions. I've spent considerable time in both now.
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  #96  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 4:59 PM
IrishIllini IrishIllini is offline
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Toronto and Detroit seem very similar, especially the suburbs. Toronto has that segmented land use peculiarity though (shopping centers mixed in with light industrial buildings).

http://mapmerizer.mikavaa.com/#11;42...se;false;false

random suburbs of Detroit and Toronto: separated at birth?

http://mapmerizer.mikavaa.com/#13;42...se;false;false
I can see why you'd say that. Neither Detroit nor Toronto's downtown is on a river. I guess you could argue Detroit's downtown is on the Detroit River, but the river does not run through downtown Detroit. Chicago, Cleveland, and Milwaukee's are. Downtown Cleveland is a bit east of the Cuyahoga, but it's close enough.
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  #97  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 5:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post

Miami also felt pretty different. Okay, so we have beaches, palm trees, and Latinos. Big deal.
Parts of South Beach remind me of parts of Santa Monica (think ocean front drives, grass and biking/walking paths between the road and the beach as well as restaurants with white colors and glass); older rundown parts in the city of Miami (small cinderblock houses, trash everywhere, poor quality infrastructure) remind me of similar neighborhoods in LA. Otherwise not much in common.
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  #98  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 5:17 PM
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We're judging similarities by satellite view? umm...

Detroit and Chicago have identical mile road grids by the way.

Atlanta is also absurdly low density, I don't know how it's comparable to LA in any way other than traffic problems. A couple blocks outside the CBD you get urban prairie and cul-de-sacs.
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  #99  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 5:48 PM
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Originally Posted by The North One View Post
We're judging similarities by satellite view? umm...

Detroit and Chicago have identical mile road grids by the way.

Atlanta is also absurdly low density, I don't know how it's comparable to LA in any way other than traffic problems. A couple blocks outside the CBD you get urban prairie and cul-de-sacs.
Holistic perspective
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  #100  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 6:17 PM
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Small parts of Houston inside the loop has somewhat of an LA feel to them particularly the neighborhoods around the Montrose area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
I really don't have anything against Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, or Miami. Each has qualities that I'm envious of and wish LA had. But I just don't see the similarities beyond a very superficial (granted, this thread is about appearance... it says so in the title) level. That's my honest opinion, without the homer glasses. The Atlanta comparison in particular is bizarre. I've actually been to Atlanta, and not once did I ever feel as if I was in a place like LA. The large African American population, thick tree coverage, brick architecture, clean freeways, sprawling airport, lack of a grid structure, etc. are all pretty foreign to me as an Angeleno.

Miami also felt pretty different. Okay, so we have beaches, palm trees, and Latinos. Big deal.
DTLA reminds me a lot of downtown Houston or Dallas. The immediate downtown areas, not the surrounding dense areas (in LA which remind me of older cities up north)
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