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  #961  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 1:04 AM
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http://www.artsjournal.com/culturegrrl/

September 9, 2009

MoMA Monster Update: City Planning Downsizes Nouvel’s Tower (but it’s still too tall)


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/ar...0building.html

Off With Its Top! City Cuts Tower to Size




By NICOLAI OUROUSSOFF
September 9, 2009


Does Manhattan have a future as a great metropolis?

If you hope the answer is yes, you will be disheartened by the City Planning Department’s decision on Wednesday to chop off 200 feet from the top of a proposed tower next door to the Museum of Modern Art on 53rd Street in Manhattan.


Designed by Jean Nouvel, the building would have been as tall as the Empire State Building minus its antenna, a fact that probably made planners tremble. Amanda Burden, the city planning commissioner, said the tower’s top, which culminates in three uneven peaks, did not meet the aesthetic standards of a building that would compete in height with the city’s most famous towers. And who, after all, wants to be responsible for ruining the most famous skyline in the world?

Still, the notion of treating the Midtown skyline as a museum piece is more disturbing. The desire of each new generation of architects and builders to leave its mark on the city, to contribute its own forms, is essential to making New York what it is. The soaring height and slender silhouette of Mr. Nouvel’s tower not only captured the spirit of Midtown — the energy and hubris that transformed this island into a monument to American cosmopolitanism — it also brought that spirit forcefully into the present.

Mr. Nouvel’s design was conceived as a giant spire, like the Empire State’s but without the boxy building. Supported by a matrix of interwoven steel beams reminiscent of a spider’s web, it tapers jaggedly as it rises, evoking a shard of glass. The beams are flush with the building’s glass surface, giving it a taut muscular appearance; an underground restaurant and lounge, visible from the sidewalk, root the structure to the site.

The design’s beauty stemmed from its elegant proportions, particularly the exaggerated relationship between its small footprint and enormous height. Seen from the street, its receding facades would have induced a delicious sense of vertigo.

Ms. Burden’s objections were directed at the top of the building. “Members of the commission had to make a decision based on what was in front of them,” she said. “The development team had to show us that they were creating something as great or even greater than the Empire State Building and the design they showed us was unresolved.”

It’s true that aspects of the design had yet to be developed fully. The three peaks were too symmetrical, which gave them a slightly static appearance. And they could have been sharpened to finer points. But Mr. Nouvel, one of the profession’s most creative forces, would have been more than capable of dealing with these issues.

With the new height restriction in place, though, his original design concept will surely be diminished. And the loss of as much as 150,000 square feet of floor space could also lead to cuts in the design budget,
which could mean cheaper materials and more cramped interiors. Or, just as bad, it could push Hines, the building’s developer, into finding a way to pack more space onto the lower floors, which could further distort the building’s proportions.

But the greater sadness here has to do with New York and how the city sees itself. Both the Empire State and Chrysler buildings, built during the Great Depression, were celebrated in their time as emblems of the city’s fortitude. The Freedom Tower, our era’s most notable contribution to the skyline, is a symbol of posturing and political expediency. And now a real alternative to it, one of the most enchanting skyscraper designs of recent memory, may well be lost because some people worry that nothing in our current age can measure up to the past. It is a mentality that, once it takes hold, risks transforming a living city into an urban mausoleum.
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  #962  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 1:07 AM
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Well on the bright side, 1050 feet is decently tall, I just don't see why they can't reach a compromise like 11-1150 or even in the high 1000's. I suppose, if it gets built, it will have a flat roof, or just be fatter?

It's not even higher per say than the Empire State Building Spire, that pinnacle is 1,450 or so feet. The ESB's roof/mast is the same height.

Granted just because it is not 1,250 feet doesn't make it not a tall building.
     
     
  #963  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 1:12 AM
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Originally Posted by NICOLAI OUROUSSOFF
the greater sadness here has to do with New York and how the city sees itself. Both the Empire State and Chrysler buildings, built during the Great Depression, were celebrated in their time as emblems of the city’s fortitude. The Freedom Tower, our era’s most notable contribution to the skyline, is a symbol of posturing and political expediency. And now a real alternative to it, one of the most enchanting skyscraper designs of recent memory, may well be lost because some people worry that nothing in our current age can measure up to the past. It is a mentality that, once it takes hold, risks transforming a living city into an urban mausoleum.
That's the same argument I make all the time when people, even on this very board, are shocked (!) that something new could possibly be built in the City.

Again, what the standard for Amanda Burden's gang is...

NVinacco




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  #964  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 1:14 AM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/ar...0building.html

Off With Its Top! City Cuts Tower to Size

By NICOLAI OUROUSSOFF
September 9, 2009

Bravo! could not have said it better myself... just, Why won't somebody listen to the people who actually make sense??

Down with Amanda!


     
     
  #965  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 1:18 AM
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Fuck You Amanda Burden- Socialite Bitch who married into even more money.

Kiss My Ass http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Burden
     
     
  #966  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 1:55 AM
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Originally Posted by YSL View Post
BOOOOOOOOOO TOO SHORT.

200 FT is a very signifcant change and it won't have nearly as much of an impact on the skyline. I am so sick of the Empire State Building solely dominating the skyline and being used as a measuring stick for all future developments in this city. Why is it so difficult for NYC to catapult itself into the 21st Century? The Empire State Building is beautiful but it's time to move on and erect other iconic and yes, TALL buildings. NYC desperately needs something 1,200FT +. Fuck The Planning Commission, Amanda Burden and the rest of the foggy geratiric NIMBYs wet their their diapers at the thought of another one of those tall scary towers in Midtown Manhattan.

Now when (if) it's built, I will always think of what could have been when viewing it. It's a beautiful design but I will never be satisfied with it.

NEXT.
Exactly, was the Empire State Building used as a measuring stick when the World Trade Center was built. The were far away from each other. TV and ESB are also far away from each other.
     
     
  #967  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 2:05 AM
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Amanda was appointed by Bloomberg.

This is an election year for Bloomberg.

He wants to show that his administration is listening to the public so he can get votes.

NIMBYs show up to public meetings. You guys don't.

Government thinks the NIMBYs repesent the general public so they listen to them.

I don't think I will vote for Bloomie anymore.
     
     
  #968  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 2:31 AM
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Amanda Burden, the city planning commissioner, said the tower’s top, which culminates in three uneven peaks, did not meet the aesthetic standards of a building that would compete in height with the city’s most famous towers.
Why is the conclusion that it must be trimmed by 200 ft, why cant nouvel revise the crown so that it meets her aesthetic standard?

Aesthetic standard, how can there be a person(s) placed with the power to decide a completely subjective issue. We are dealing in personal standards for architectual aesthetic judging what meets New York's standards!

So it all comes down to lobbying, thats how this subjective decision is made...period.
     
     
  #969  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 2:31 AM
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Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
Amanda was appointed by Bloomberg.

This is an election year for Bloomberg.

He wants to show that his administration is listening to the public so he can get votes.

NIMBYs show up to public meetings. You guys don't.

Government thinks the NIMBYs repesent the general public so they listen to them.

I don't think I will vote for Bloomie anymore.
Won't matter. He's going to appoint himself Mayor-for-Life.
     
     
  #970  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 5:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NICOLAI OUROUSSOFF

September 9, 2009

Does Manhattan have a future as a great metropolis?

If you hope the answer is yes, you will be disheartened by the City Planning Department’s decision on Wednesday to chop off 200 feet from the top of a proposed tower next door to the Museum of Modern Art on 53rd Street in Manhattan

And the song goes on...


http://archpaper.com/e-board_rev.asp?News_ID=3808

Lopped Off
Nouvel's skyline-altering Midtown tower loses 200 feet


Poised to become the second-tallest building in Midtown—surpassing the Chrysler Building and the observation deck of the Empire State Building—Jean Nouvel’s proposed tower for Hines Interests drew wary attention from the City Planning Commission earlier this summer, as commissioners debated whether or not the 1,250-foot tower—next door to MoMA and in need of numerous zoning allowances—was worthy of such a privileged position on the skyline.

Despite being the work of a Pritzker Prizer winner, the answer is apparently not, as the commission voted today to knock 200 feet off the top of the building.

“While the proposed design of the building is exemplary,” said commission chairwoman Amanda Burden, “the applicant has not made a convincing argument that the building’s top 200 feet be worthy of the zone in which it would rise.” The commission approved the building at a modified height of 1,050 feet by a vote of 9-0 with two abstentions.

Both Hines and MoMA—which would occupy the second through fifth floors of the new tower as part of a 2007 deal that sold the development parcel to Hines for $125,000—were disappointed by the commission’s decision, though they said they would continue to work with commissioners on the design.

George Lancaster, a spokesperson for Hines, declined to say what direction the developer would be taking, but made it clear that Hines was not giving up. “We will soldier on,” Lancaster wrote in an email. “It is not scrapped!”


During a July public hearing, Hines had dismissed neighbors’ complaints about possible adverse impacts such as traffic and shadows by noting that it could build as high as 1,050 feet as of right, and given Nouvel’s notable design, an additional 200 feet would make little difference. That strategy appears to have backfired today despite eralier indiations commissioners had been swayed. Instead, Burden took the developer at its word, saying that the building could be just as good, if not better, at the default height. “The new building as modified can be a strong addition to Midtown and the city,” she said.

What continued to bother Burden and her fellow commissioners was the design of those last 200 feet. While the commission’s report outlined concerns such as “highly visible mechanical equipment” atop Nouvel’s tower, it does not appear that the architect would be entitled to improve the crown of his building and receive approval at the originally proposed height.

The other zoning waivers the developer sought—allowing for the building’s distinctive shape and the transfer of air rights from the University Club and St. Thomas Church down the street—are still in place, with the potential for the building to remain at 650,000 square feet, though the reduced height and parameters of the zoning envelope make that unlikely. Any new designs by Nouvel must return to the commission for approval.

Hines and MoMA are not the only ones irked by the decision. In an interview, Justin Peyser, director of the Coalition for Responsible Midtown Development, a group of neighbors and local businesses opposed to the tower, said the commission had not gone far enough.

“A Chrysler-sized building is still too tall for the middle of this block,” he said.

Jeff Byles
Reporting by Matt Chaban
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  #971  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 5:42 AM
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damn.
     
     
  #972  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 12:19 PM
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http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...gwTMharerFozxO

MoMA's tower slash

By TOM TOPOUSIS
September 10, 2009

An abstract skyscraper next to the Museum of Modern Art that was supposed to rise as high as the Empire State Building was cut down to size yesterday by the City Planning Commission, which approved the project only if it's slashed by 200 feet.

The tower, which would include exhibition space for the museum as well as a super-luxury hotel and apartments, would still rise 1,050 feet -- about the height of the Eiffel Tower -- on a small midblock lot on West 53rd Street.

Designed by French architect Jean Nouvel, the asymmetrical tower with a crisscrossing fabric of exposed steel columns was initially designed to reach 1,250 feet, as tall as the Empire State Building without the antenna.

While praising the design of most of the tower, city Planning Commissioner Amanda Burden said the design for the upper 200 feet wasn't good enough to merit a place in the same level of atmosphere as the Empire State Building.

"This is a good project for the site and for the city," Burden said of the reduced-size project by one of the world's celebrated starchitects.

Planners like the design of the rest of the building so much that they made their approval contingent on the developer keeping the same "tapering, sculpted form and unique, asymmetrical" wall.

Residents along West 53rd and 54th Streets have opposed the project, even at the reduced height, because it would dwarf all the surrounding buildings and cast a shadow that would sweep across the neighborhood and reach into Central Park.

The tower was initially proposed to begin construction next year. A spokeswoman for the Texas-based developer, Hines, said they will continue to work with the city on "this milestone project."

MoMA, which sold the lot to Hines in 2007, is slated to get 40,000 square feet of exhibition space in the tower.

"While we had hoped that the commission would approve the Jean Nouvel design as originally proposed, we are confident that the process will yield a project that contributes greatly to the architectural heritage and economy of the city," said a museum spokesman.
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  #973  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 1:23 PM
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Im still not understanding why revising the crown is not an option, why is chopping it the only option? Is there any possibility of meeting the aesthetic standards of a tower that meets the height of the ESB?

Anyone got any answers?
     
     
  #974  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 2:41 PM
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Im still not understanding why revising the crown is not an option, why is chopping it the only option?
It's the only option simply because that's the way the CPC wants it. If Hines wants those special permits for the tower, they'll have to cut it off at 1,050 ft.

Ironically, Nouvel & Hines may lose some of those extra air rights anyway because the CPC is also restricting the design sharply...

Quote:
Planners like the design of the rest of the building so much that they made their approval contingent on the developer keeping the same "tapering, sculpted form and unique, asymmetrical" wall.
Bunch of morons...
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  #975  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 2:53 PM
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Thats too bad...
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  #976  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 2:58 PM
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A huge step back for NYC and it's skyscraper future.

200ft lost for no real substantial reason. And then to tell them that they have to keep the tepring structure? How can he do that with 1/6th of the building height lobbed off?
     
     
  #977  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 4:11 PM
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fuck, that sucks. fuck.
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  #978  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 6:40 PM
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Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
Amanda was appointed by Bloomberg.

This is an election year for Bloomberg.

He wants to show that his administration is listening to the public so he can get votes.

NIMBYs show up to public meetings. You guys don't.

Government thinks the NIMBYs repesent the general public so they listen to them.

I don't think I will vote for Bloomie anymore.
It sounded like more a political appeasement move as this thing dragged on.
     
     
  #979  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 8:34 PM
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I just want to say that you should also modify the metric height measure of the Tower Verre ...
1,050 FT is not 381 M but 320 M.

Last edited by NYguy; Sep 11, 2009 at 3:44 AM.
     
     
  #980  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 8:37 PM
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If that wrinkly nasty dumbshit Amanda whatever the hell her name is thought it was such a horrible thing to build over 1,050 feet, then how did fatman Douglas Durst get approval to build One Bryant Park up to 1,200 feet? Seriously, this is a fuckin joke... If I had to guess, the Department of City Planning, the assholes that they are, must have thought that even though this project was good, it wasn't as worthy as others to get such a height. I will say personally though, I think One Bryant Park is the best looking most original design I've seen for Midtown IMHO in a very long time. Hopefully this will still start construction and NYC can get another building over 1,000 feet into it's skyline.
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Last edited by CHAPINM1; Sep 10, 2009 at 8:48 PM.
     
     
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