The future of Hamilton's public transit

[LikeHamilton]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Peterborough rail link nixed
http://www.torontosun.com/News/Canad...36431-sun.html

Thanks for the info. Why cannot we tap into some of the $33 Billion fund for VIA in Hamilton? $3 mil was a drop in the bucket.

[SteelTown]

Via never gave station a chance, Bratina says

Katie Mercer and Daniel Nolan
The Hamilton Spectator
(Mar 31, 2008)

Downtown Councillor Bob Bratina says Via is violating its own mandate by refusing to take part in the re-establishment of rail passenger service to Hamilton's former CN station, now a prestigious banquet centre.

GO Transit has been given $3 million by the Ontario government to build a platform, ticket kiosk and lighting just of east of LIUNA Station on James Street North and bring back some semblance of the passenger service that left the station in 1993.

City and GO officials believed Via would use the stop for its Niagara-Toronto trains, but Via officials said Friday the locale is not its preferred site for a new rail station in Hamilton and it also wants something more for its customers in Hamilton than a ticket kiosk. It will continue to only stop in Aldershot and Grimsby.

But Bratina, who has lobbied hard to get a James Street North passenger stop, says a letter last fall from federal Transport Minister Lawrence Cannon to Mayor Fred Eisenberger on a new Via Rail station in the city says the location is up to Via management, but also noted the mandate of Via is to provide passenger service "while minimizing the funding required from the federal government."

"Lawrence Cannon is adamant . . . they have to do it as economically as possible," said Bratina. "What they're talking about (building a station) is in the millions. This is free. If the transportation minister's letter is to believed then this would be the most economical decision. That's his contention. That it has to be economically affordable."

The new platform came about as a result of a push from the Greater Toronto Transportation Authority, headed by former Burlington mayor Rob MacIsaac. It will not impact morning and evening GO trains that use the GO Centre, the former TH&B station, on Hunter Street, but is aimed for eventual GO train expansion into Niagara. The CN station lost Via trains in 1992 and GO passengers a year later. GO trains, however, stopped at a platform near the station until 1996 when the new $65-million GO Centre opened. Via has talked about building a new station in east Hamilton, Stoney Creek and Copetown in the last few years.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger said he will talk to Via officials and encourage them to consider utilizing the new GO stop. "My earlier indication was that Via would have an interest if GO would have an interest. It's a bit of a surprise to hear that they're not willing to consider it."

Via spokesperson Catherine Kaloutsky said Via representatives met with the mayor in December to talk about a new station in the Hamilton area. She couldn't say, at this point, if it is still being pursued.

"The James Street location was not our preference so, our position, at this point in time is that we are not going to be investing in a James Street location," she said. "We've looked at a number of locations and this was definitely not a preferred location from a customer safety and security point of view. We're looking for a station and a platform."

Bratina said Via never gave James Street North a chance.

[flar]

VIA knows the Hamilton area really well, Copetown is an obvious choice for a station

[SteelTown]

Sounds like the City and the province is gonna need to cough up a few more millions to build a Station to attract VIA to the James St N location.

[HAMRetrofit]

There are only two options for VIA, Hunter or James North. So does this mean they want to run VIA into Hunter?

[matt602]

Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit

There are only two options for VIA, Hunter or James North. So does this mean they want to run VIA into Hunter?

They probably do, but I doubt they want to pay for widening the tunnel. If that does happen though a James North station will be rendered pretty useless unless Niagara bound service becomes more than a dream.

[RePinion]

I really can't imagine them paying to widen the tunnel. Their growth strategy is clearly focused on suburban properties. Via Rail has defied common sense yet again, and failed in its mandate to provide sustainable rail transportation to as many Canadians as possible.

[mishap]

Originally Posted by flar

VIA knows the Hamilton area really well, Copetown is an obvious choice for a station

Wow, years ago, I figured that Copetown had the potential for a rail station, but not necessarily for VIA. I was thinking more along the lines of a GO stop on the way to Brantford. I used to live in the area. I didn't really care about train service, but there are two important features about that location:
- the line emerges from the Dundas Valley
- a future mid-pen highway would pass west of Copetown, so this location would have some intermodal potential for eastern portions of Cambridge and Brantford (and the smaller surrounding communities)

On the down side, it's no Downtown Hamilton.

[HAMRetrofit]

I really get the sense that VIA is subsidizing the failure of the Canadian Rail network. Perhaps to make roads the only viable alternative?

[SteelTown]

Bratina today on CHML said eventually there'll be a structure at LIUNA Station for GO Transit. Mayor Fred and Bratina will continue to talk with VIA.

[coalminecanary]

Originally Posted by mishap

You can't jump to full B-Line service right away. However, you can begin to establish the B-Line as the primary service in its corridor. Here's what can be done, within reason, to work toward that in the near term:

Here is a B-Line idea... put more B-Line buses, and put more stops, but buses only stop for pick up at alternating stops. so if you double the # stops, and also double the # buses, each bus can still be as fast as before since it only stops at half of them. And you don't wait any longer than before. But more people wil lhave access to express service if they are "Between stops" as it is now. Just a thought, maybe too complicated.

Originally Posted by JT Jacobs

Serving Aldershot and Grimsby over Canada's eighth largest city is absurd, particularly considering that the station is restored, has expanded GO service now, and a forthcoming additional platform, lighting, and ticket kiosk courtesy of the provincial government.

Regardless of all of these smaller cities, the real telling fact is that the ONLY city in all of Canada larger than Hamilton with no VIA service is Calgary -- and that's because there's no VIA train that runs anywhere near Calgary. Then as you run down the list of Canada's biggest cities (we are #9 by the way), the next lowest one with no service is all the way down at #18 - Regina followed by #19 - St. John's. Even Victoria has a VIA station and it's not even on the mainland!
http://hammerboard.ca/viewtopic.php?t=7

Originally Posted by LikeHamilton

If you read VIA Rails own study of service to Hamilton, the location at Liuna was at the bottom of their list and undesirable. At the top of there list was the GO Centre if the tunnel and the connection to the main line at Ottawa Street (Gage line) was addressed.
...
I believe the feds should invest in making the TH & B tunnel wider and taller, correct problems with the Gage line and connect the Gage line to the CN main line so the trains can go east and west from the Gage line.
...
This is nothing that a little money cannot solve.
...
Like I said, this is not a surprise to me. I was never in favor of a second downtown train station. It does not happen anywhere else. Bringing people to the CN station at Liuna only perpetuates the stereotype of view of Hamilton with some of the poorest areas and old vacant industries and steel mills. Coming into the GO Centre gives you a view of Cootes Paradise and coming out of the tunnel into the downtown, especially after Simpson gets done with it, would give people a better view of Hamilton before they see the steel mills.

I just want to second all of your points. I've said it a million times here before but we need to keep Hunter as the central transit terminal and have all of the local and regional connections in one spot. Mark my words, if we build two separate stations, the logistics are going to be a nightmare. Locals and visitors alike will curse it. People will do what they can to avoid having to make connections here. It will be a failure. Then we open the gates for people to make comments such as "See, we tried bringing transit to Downtown Hamilton and it failed! Told you so!"

Originally Posted by hamiltonguy

I still don't think the Gage connection is unrealistic. You can not run fast trains over the Belt Line and it's impossible to bring it up to the needed standard.

However if Via Was to propose a fast Toronto-Buffulo line via the old TH&B then i'd totally think they'd be on to something.

re: gage -- Nothing is impossible. They do at least that much work and much much more (including land appropriation and diversion of local roads) for highways. It is a pure lack of will that keeps us from treating rail with the same importance as our beloved multi lane behemoths.

re: a buffalo line: I think this is the real answer to the gage line problem. Serve fort erie and buffalo that way. If st. catharines really needs service, build a branch line to them somewhere in the peninsula where the land is easier to convert to rails (i.e. not tin the middle of a city). Something tells me the via demand in st catharines is low enough that ft erie/buffalo would easily usurp it.

Originally Posted by SteelTown

The real question is are we going to end up with a little GO Train shack next to LIUNA Station or is the East side of LIUNA Station going to be used as a Station.

I have been asking the same thing... and whatever they put there, whether it's simply a roof over a platform or an actual station, will not be able to hold a candle to the hunter station. It will be ugly. It will be an awful experience for long distance travellers arriving to Hamilton. And it will NOT be within walking distance of all of our major hotels. VIA needs to be in TH&B!

Originally Posted by LikeHamilton

I still don’t know why we need 2 stations in such a small market so close to each other? Downtown Toronto and Montreal only have one. We are shooting ourselves in the foot again. All our efforts should be in getting VIA and extended GO into Hunter Street.

YES!!!

[hamiltonguy]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

Regardless of all of these smaller cities, the real telling fact is that the ONLY city in all of Canada larger than Hamilton with no VIA service is Calgary -- and that's because there's no VIA train that runs anywhere near Calgary.
Then as you run down the list of Canada's biggest cities (we are #9 by the way), the next lowest one with no service is all the way down at #18 - Regina followed by #19 - St. John's. Even Victoria has a VIA station and it's not even on the mainland!
http://hammerboard.ca/viewtopic.php?t=7

This is not QUITE true. Yes the City of Hamilton doesn't have a VIA station, but neither does Mississauga which is much larger.

If the CMA numbers are being used (Missi is in the Toronto CMA) then what you're saying starts to make sense until you realize the Hamilton CMA has two VIA stations (Aldershot and Grimsby)

I just want to second all of your points. I've said it a million times here before but we need to keep Hunter as the central transit terminal and have all of the local and regional connections in one spot. Mark my words, if we build two separate stations, the logistics are going to be a nightmare. Locals and visitors alike will curse it. People will do what they can to avoid having to make connections here. It will be a failure. Then we open the gates for people to make comments such as "See, we tried bringing transit to Downtown Hamilton and it failed! Told you so!"

I don't think having one line that doesn't pass through Hunter is going to kill public transit in Hamilton. No it isn't ideal, but it's the realistic option

re: gage -- Nothing is impossible. They do at least that much work and much much more (including land appropriation and diversion of local roads) for highways. It is a pure lack of will that keeps us from treating rail with the same importance as our beloved multi lane behemoths.

I don't think you quite get things. The scale of what is being talked of is much larger.

RHVP only involved the expropriation of a few houses. Here we're talking about 3 times as much at least (i'm being very conservative) to double track as there is no extra right of way to double track. We're also talking about closing several roads close to each other. Both through Streets south of Main will have to be closed in order to allow the train to get low enough to pass under Main and Gage. As someone who has lived there in recent memory these are very important streets for these neighbourhoods.

re: a buffalo line: I think this is the real answer to the gage line problem. Serve fort erie and buffalo that way. If st. catharines really needs service, build a branch line to them somewhere in the peninsula where the land is easier to convert to rails (i.e. not tin the middle of a city). Something tells me the via demand in st catharines is low enough that ft erie/buffalo would easily usurp it.

Intercity trains do NOT end at St. Catharines and goes through to Buffulo as well as serving Niagara Falls (a more important city than Fort Erie.) As well Welland is much less important than St. Catharines. Also the TH&B line is less suited to passenger traffic than the CN line.

Just to remind people. By the time passenger trains on the Toronto-Buffulo run on CP/TH&B were down to once a day DMU service. The CN line was still able to sustain full trains, multiple times a day.

I have been asking the same thing... and whatever they put there, whether it's simply a roof over a platform or an actual station, will not be able to hold a candle to the hunter station. It will be ugly. It will be an awful experience for long distance travellers arriving to Hamilton. And it will NOT be within walking distance of all of our major hotels. VIA needs to be in TH&B!

When you've got a million bags neither is Hunter. We had friends come to town who took a cab from Hunter to the Sheraton because it was too far to walk with luggage.

I think the problem (but also the great thing) about these boards are the people are dreamers. They seem to think that just by drawing lines on the Map they can build anything. While I think VIA should come to James North, I don't think Hunter Street could realistically be used, and I think the people arguing for it don't know much about Hamilton Railways.

[mishap]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

Here is a B-Line idea... put more B-Line buses, and put more stops, but buses only stop for pick up at alternating stops. so if you double the # stops, and also double the # buses, each bus can still be as fast as before since it only stops at half of them. And you don't wait any longer than before. But more people will have access to express service if they are "Between stops" as it is now. Just a thought, maybe too complicated.

What you propose is known as "skip-stop" service. New York does this with a couple of their subway lines (1 and 9, I think), where they serve alternating stops, but all stop at the transfer points. And I think this is only done during peak periods, otherwise the 1 train serves all stops. The point of this is to increase the amount of trains that can run on the same track.

I have proposed skip-stop local service for Barton. In rush hours, there would be two different buses, call them 2A and 2B. Off-peak, there would only be route 2. Local stops would be signed as 2/2A or 2/2B. The major stops would signed as 2/2A/2B. The most a passenger would have to walk is one stop at one end of the trip. If they walk one stop at each end, then they just got on the wrong bus, or they chose to walk to save time.

Skip-stop service works well as long as all buses are in service. An A or B stop only gets half as much peak service as a common stop, or every 15 minutes for a "skipped" stop on Barton. If a bus is out, then people wait up to 30 minutes at those specific stops, as two of the other buses go by. Then again, breakdowns can occur on any route.

I was riding the King bus the other day, and a B-Line went past us as I was talking to another passenger. She actually said, "I wish they would stop at all the stops." Um, yeah, kinda like this bus.

[raisethehammer]

don't get me started on NYC subway 'express lines'. haha...last time I was there, I'm sitting on a train minding my own business when the operator comes on and says "this train is now an express train due to extreme crowding" and off we go, flying past my stop. Lol. I spoke with a local and he said to stay on your toes...trains become express trains anytime of the day with no warning. It's quite a system there though. I've never heard of underground 'traffic congestion' let alone sat in it before. NYC is one congested mess, but at least the underground traffic jams move along quicker than the street level ones.

[SteelTown]

VIA will stop at the new station!

[SteelTown]

Via trains will stop at LIUNA after all

Andrew Dreschel
The Hamilton Spectator
(Apr 2, 2008)

The on again, off again return of Via passenger service to downtown Hamilton is back on track.

Via spokesperson Catherine Kaloutsky says the Crown corporation's trains will pull into LIUNA Station on James Street North when GO Transit builds the $3-million platform facility promised by Ontario.

"If GO is able to entrain and detrain passengers at that location, Via will stop some of its trains as well," Kaloutsky said in an interview.

The categorical statement clears up several days of confusion and miscommunication around Via's plans for the location near LIUNA .

Reports have suggested Via's Toronto-Niagara service would continue to run from Aldershot to Grimsby without stopping in Hamilton.

But Kaloutsky insists Via's position has not changed since funding for the new GO platform was announced in last week's Ontario budget.

She says Via has consistently said it will not spend any money on a James Street site, but if GO invests in a platform and supporting facilities, Via will have "certain" trains that operate on the route stop there.

Kaloutsky says it's too early to say which trains highballing through the area will come to a halt in Hamilton.

But she's clear some will wind up at LIUNA when GO does.

"If something is set up, if they invest in that station, creating a platform for passengers to get on and off a train and along with that goes lighting ... we will stop our trains," Kaloutsky said.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger says that fits with his original understanding of Via's position.

"How the message got lost, I'm not sure, but I'm glad it's back on track," Eisenberger said.

So is Bob Bratina, the ward councillor for the area, who has tirelessly pushed for Via's return to James Street, which it abandoned in 1992 in favour of Aldershot.

Bratina says it only makes sense for Via to stop at the platform near the former CN station, now home to the LIUNA banquet centre.

"Here we're offering them a stop on a platter," Bratina said.

"They don't really need to do anything but stop the train."

Both Eisenberger and Bratina hope Via's undertaking is the first step on the path to a greater presence in Hamilton.

"We think that the experience will lead them to understand that this is a good move and that they'll make a commitment," Bratina said.

Via has made it clear from the beginning that among the several locations it considered for Hamilton, James Street was not its preferred option.

It's hardly a secret that they were eyeing a Stoney Creek site.

But Eisenberger and Bratina have consistently argued that James Street suits the city better because it would help boost downtown and waterfront redevelopment.

Discussions picked up steam when former Burlington mayor Rob MacIsaac, now head of Metrolinx, went to bat on the city's behalf with the provincial government to bring more GO services to Hamilton. The home run was the $3-million budget announcement.

When it's built, the platform at LIUNA will augment existing GO service at the renovated TH&B Hunter Street station and bus terminal, where train service is constrained by track and tunnel bottlenecks.

The LIUNA stop not only means extra GO service, it means Hamilton can once again be counted among the 450 communities across Canada that receive some kind of Via service, whether it's through a station with a waiting room or a simple whistle-stop shelter to keep off the rain.

For Bratina, a train buff from long back, it puts Hamilton back on its rightful place on Canada's rail map.

Bratina notes passenger trains have been stopping here since 1853.

He says he didn't attend the closing of the old CN station because it was "too emotional" for him.

And it "broke his heart not to see Hamilton on a Via schedule."

Given Bratina's good work at guiding that lost choo-choo back home, perhaps the city should name him its honorary brakeman.

[raisethehammer]

Lol....man, VIA is one well-run organization.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by hamiltonguy

RHVP only involved the expropriation of a few houses. Here we're talking about 3 times as much at least (i'm being very conservative) to double track as there is no extra right of way to double track.

Why would ther be a need to double-track Gage? If it were used simply to redirect passenger trains from the CP line to the CN line, it can easily still act as a single spur. Simple signalling can control bidirectional traffic here, seeing as there would not be a significant inrease in traffic along teh spur. Expropriation would really only be necessary at the north end of the spur to allow for bidirectional alignment with the CN line.

[markbarbera]

Here is an interesting article just posted on 900chml.com's news:

Younger workers choosing 'greener' commuting options
Canadian Press
4/2/2008

Young workers in the Hamilton region are more likely to pick "green" commuting options than their older co-workers.

New data from the 2006 census shows workers under the age of 25 in the Hamilton region use public transit 14% of the time, while a further 10.5% walk and 1.9% use a bike.

That's a considerably higher reliance on environmentally friendly means of getting to work than the average commuter in the Hamilton region, who commutes by public transit 8.7% of the time, by foot 5% of the time and 0.9% by bike.

The reliance on the car in the Hamilton region seems to increase as the age of commuters gets older.

Commuters under the age of 25 went to work by car 72% of the time.

Those aged 25 to 34 commuted by car 84% of the time, and those 35 and over drove or were driven 88% of the time.

In Hamilton, 9% of workers use public transit while 83.5% go to work by car.

It is encouraging to see this positive trend towards transit among young workers entering Hamilton's workforce. Many observers have generalized in the past that HSR ridership demographics consist almost exclusively of students and the unemployed, and therefore downplayed the economic benefits HSR brings to the city. From my personal experience as a commuter using public transit, I thought this wasn't right, that the demographics were very much different from that kind of assumption. It is a relief to see that the most recent census data supports my gut feeling that HSR ridership was changing significantly. Obviously, the ols-school view on HSR ridership is becoming more and more out of date. Ridership by young professionals will increase even more significantly once higher-order transit is in place. With any luck this trend won't go unnoticed by HSR staff and city council.

[I, Sinclair]

We can't really call it a trend with only one data point. What was ridership among these segments over the last several years?

I read these numbers and come to a different conclusion: workers under 25 probably have less ability to own and operate a car.

It's a bit of a stretch to say people who can't afford a car are "choosing" a green alternative.

Not to dump all over transit (which I strongly believe is one of the keys to a livable city), but statistics without context dos not provide information.