The Press Blocks (Oregonian Publishing Buildings) | 250' | 23 floors | U/C - Page 6

maccoinnich · #**101** Posted **Mar 15, 2017, 12:34 AM**

Staff Report, which recommends approval. Goose Hollow neighbors will be at the hearing with pitchforks, I imagine.

maccoinnich · #**102** Posted **Mar 15, 2017, 5:50 PM**

Drawings [PDF - 222MB].

urbanlife · #**103** Posted **Mar 17, 2017, 9:43 AM**

I am really loving this development, it makes it feel as if Downtown is expanding west.

ORNative · #**104** Posted **Mar 17, 2017, 4:20 PM**

I think it looks great. I like they way they broke up the space and kept a human scale with varied uses

maccoinnich · #**105** Posted **Mar 23, 2017, 9:59 PM**

Stopped in for a couple minutes. Pretty full room for the hearing.

maccoinnich · #**106** Posted **Mar 24, 2017, 4:17 AM**

Not approved today; returning for a second hearing on May 4th.

urbanlife · #**107** Posted **Mar 24, 2017, 8:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

Not approved today; returning for a second hearing on May 4th.

Why not? It looks like it was a good design for that area.

maccoinnich · #**108** Posted **Mar 24, 2017, 4:25 PM**

IDK, haven't listened to the hearing yet. Just caught the last couple minutes.

Tykendo · #**109** Posted **Mar 26, 2017, 4:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ORNative

I think it looks great. I like they way they broke up the space and kept a human scale with varied uses

Human scale. The most overused determining force in Portland. McMansions aren't human scale, so why do they spring up all over. If everything is supposed to be human scale, then tiny houses are the only thing that should be allowed to be built. Just sayin'. Those behemoth stumpy ocean liner-esqe block gobbling apartment buildings aren't human scale. A point tower with landscaping, public areas , like the John Ross are way more human scale IMO. Those Block Beast block all the sunlight.

maccoinnich · #**110** Posted **Apr 15, 2017, 9:19 PM**

innovativethinking · #**111** Posted **Apr 16, 2017, 7:11 AM**

What's wrong with a point tower? Why these 23 story "wall" looking behemoths

maccoinnich · #**112** Posted **Apr 16, 2017, 8:30 PM**

Point towers are very expensive to build. You still need to provide two sets of stairs and (at least) two elevators to every floor, but those are serving fewer units, meaning that percentage of each floor that generates revenue is lower. Furthermore, the amount of facade (one of the most expensive parts of a building) relative to floor area is higher in a point tower than it is in a building that fills out the width of a block.

The effect of this is that point towers will always be more expensive to build on a per-unit basis. With rents (finally) plateauing in Portland we're just not an expensive enough city to justify the construction of a significant number of point towers.

2oh1 · #**113** Posted **Apr 16, 2017, 10:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by innovativethinking

What's wrong with a point tower? Why these 23 story "wall" looking behemoths

As Mac explained, you need to learn to think in terms of affordability. The more expensive a building is to build, the more expensive it'll be for whatever's inside it. Condos? Apartments? Retail? Offices? Nobody is going to finance a tower that is too expensive for potential tenants to afford.

I hope this project goes through a bit more revision, but I think there's a lot to like here. I'm so excited about what this stretch of Goose Hollow is going to become.

innovativethinking · #**114** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 12:07 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

Point towers are very expensive to build. You still need to provide two sets of stairs and (at least) two elevators to every floor, but those are serving fewer units, meaning that percentage of each floor that generates revenue is lower. Furthermore, the amount of facade (one of the most expensive parts of a building) relative to floor area is higher in a point tower than it is in a building that fills out the width of a block.

The effect of this is that point towers will always be more expensive to build on a per-unit basis. With rents (finally) plateauing in Portland we're just not an expensive enough city to justify the construction of a significant number of point towers.

Thanks mac that makes sense

innovativethinking · #**115** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 12:14 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2oh1

As Mac explained, you need to learn to think in terms of affordability. The more expensive a building is to build, the more expensive it'll be for whatever's inside it. Condos? Apartments? Retail? Offices? Nobody is going to finance a tower that is too expensive for potential tenants to afford.

I hope this project goes through a bit more revision, but I think there's a lot to like here. I'm so excited about what this stretch of Goose Hollow is going to become.

So what was going on during the Southwater Front point tower boom days? Surely the city has much more people moving here since then. Could they afford it then and not now?

maccoinnich · #**116** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 1:39 AM**

Many of the south waterfront units were sold at auction for large discounts. I doubt those towers were a success for the investors.

innovativethinking · #**117** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 4:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

Many of the south waterfront units were sold at auction for large discounts. I doubt those towers were a success for the investors.

True. But the whole country at that time got hit with a historic downturn that caused the market to crash. I bet if that level of construction (south waterfront pre-2008, point tower boom) occurred in Portland 2017 it would be a massive success. Portland is growing in levels this city has ever seen.

ebetsure · #**118** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 5:50 PM**

I think this one looks pretty good in the renderings (these also seem to be especially high-quality renderings). Though some more point towers would be nice.

Regarding the south waterfront towers, I don't think they gave up that much square-footage at the top, it's just that a few of them have either circular or elliptical cross-sections for the tower. IMO Portland would do well to have several more towers with elliptical cross-sections.

mmeade · #**119** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 5:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

Many of the south waterfront units were sold at auction for large discounts. I doubt those towers were a success for the investors.

That's not entirely true. The first towers to hit the market had lines around the block of customers wanting to buy. Developers did well on those buildings. The next towers out of the ground were not quite as lucky, as the crash hit right about the same time they opened. My impression is that most of the developers of those buildings still managed to run a good profit. The last and most expensive towers took quite some time to fill, and developers had to sell at pretty deep discounts.

The big trick was that land was really cheap in South Waterfront before anyone built there. That is no longer the case. Now there is a thriving neighborhood, and land prices aren't all that much cheaper than they are in the central city.

The only point tower built in recent history was the Cosmopolitan, and it was a success because it filled a hole in the market. There had been no new high end condo towers since the South Waterfront boom, so there was a pent up desire. That building sold out by opening day.

It can be done, but not cheaply. The contents of the building have to be pretty high rent to make it work.

2oh1 · #**120** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 6:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmeade

It can be done, but not cheaply. The contents of the building have to be pretty high rent to make it work.

And this brings us back to the original point. More expensive to build. More expensive rent. That's the problem, not the solution.