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  #981  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2024, 1:31 AM
zahav zahav is offline
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United Airlines has been adding capacity on several routes to Canada, obviously in partnership with Air Canada. I don't have past frequencies to confirm if UA is adding or replacing AC service, but my thought is that it is additional. Ie. they added YYC-IAD, YYC-LAX, YUL and YYZ to SFO. And all the mainline up gauges. UA used to be so reliant on RJs for so many Canadian routes, but they've become much more mainline lately (both YYC and YVR are entirely UA mainline this summer, with daily+ to SFO, LAX, DEN, IAH, ORD, EWR, and WAS from each) AC has been pretty static I think, they haven't cut back really (other than from YYC, where they pulled out of SFO, LAX, DEN, IAH, and ORD and handed UA everything, the only route they kept was EWR). But they also haven't added noticeably. So UA is doing the heavy lifting for both airlines on several UA hub routes now, freeing up AC to operate increases to cities that aren't UA strongholds (ie. Austin, Miami/Florida in general, Phoenix, etc.). Really makes sense, it's the main point of a joint venture, that flexibility.

I never realized our bilateral with Turkey was so restrictive. UAE always seemed to get the attention in terms of miniscule bilateral allowances, and the frustration by carriers like EK with such low flight frequency. EK is a behemoth on so many routes to places that don't have tight restrictions like Canada, so as much as I don't like government overreach, keeping a tight leash on flights was probably a wise move by Canada, even though it isn't an inviting quality for many airlines. But then there's TK, the silent monster that wasn't as flashy as EK for advertising, it didn't have the reputation of a power player in the international market the way EK had, and it wasn't world renowned for crazy in flight offerings (EK was all about the A380s and big new planes, including the super luxurious first class offerings like private suites). From what I see, TK still only has economy and business class on all flights, that's very basic, not even premium economy. And yet here we are, and TK and IST airport are eclipsing EK in many respects, here's just a snippet of the Wikipedia article:

As of 2022,[needs update] it operates scheduled services to 340 destinations in Europe, Asia, Oceania, Africa, and the Americas,[8] making it the largest mainline carrier in the world by number of passenger destinations.[9][10][11] The airline serves more destinations non-stop from a single airport than any other airline in the world[12] and flies to 126 countries, more than any other airline.

They really came right for DXB and EK, and it wasn't splashed in the headlines or discussed even amongst AV geeks the way EK was. EK was the giant who could wipe out local and foreign competition, and build connections to DXB (possibly also being a deterrent to other airlines adding capacity to cities where DXB intimidates competitors). Yet all along, TK was building a massive global network through a single connecting hub the way DXB was, but never got any of the hate. They are doing exactly what DXB did (without the flash and opulence factor), but even more well positioned. So the fact that Canada has a tight bilateral with Turkey shouldn't be surprising, I just never knew about it. It certainly does explain why TK frequencies are so low on routes that could certainly absorb much more (3x weekly to YVR and YUL, and sub daily to YYZ?! I definitely should have known these low frequencies were due to government restrictions and not demand).

It is such a bizarre relationship Canada (and especially Air Canada) has with these ME airlines... TK is a full member of Star Alliance and has been for a long time, so they are supposed to be teammates with AC. But I don't see that at all. Yes there's some minor codesharing, but it's not that extensive. And then there's the bipolar saga with AC and EK. Basically AC saw EK as its adversary, plain and simple. Everyone knows AC was the big supporter of restrictions on EK, to protect their own routes to Europe, India, and their close relationship with LH from FRA and MUC. Years pass, you don't hear much about the issue anymore, and then all of a sudden AC announces a partnership with EK? Like a formal partnership, with a media blitz promoting their new cooperation. AC even codeshares with FlyDubai, the other Emirati owned airlines, focusing on regional ME and South Asia! Interestingly, at this same time United signed a similar partnership with EK, after previously taking the same position as AC (tight restrictions and defensive tactics to keep EK out). Something happened that made these *Alliance stalwarts pivot to partnership with EK, I am not someone who believes in rubbish like plots or blackmail or bribery being the reasoning for international events, but the AC/UA 180-turn regarding EK and DXB was really surprising. I can't help but notice there's no sign of LH and EK getting into bed together, they don't have any codesharing together. LH was probably a bit ticked off that their two big North American partners (and close ones) did this. Unless AC and UA gave LH advance notice, I have no clue, I have zero read or sense what the nature of their cooperation is and who is more dominant). And then here again we have TK and IST. AC could make IST more of a priority, having some of their own flights there (which are allowed in the bilateral), or even just stronger codesharing and domestic connection cooperation, but it doesn't seem the case. They (AC) don't fly to IST themselves at all, they are seemingly more focused on partnering with a non-alliance, dominant competitor at DXB than with a *Alliance partner airline and their home base?!
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  #982  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2024, 2:53 AM
zahav zahav is offline
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WestJet CEO Alexis von Hoensbroech outlines long-term growth plan and vision for Alberta's capital city

First annual chamber event showcases airline's commitment to the community

EDMONTON, AB, April 24, 2024 /CNW/ - WestJet today provided a comprehensive update on the progress it is making against its targeted growth strategy for Edmonton. Alexis von Hoensbroech, WestJet Group Chief Executive Officer, outlined the airline's strategy and commitments for 2024 and beyond in collaboration with key partners at his first annual address to business and community leaders at the Edmonton Chamber of Commerce.

"As the capital city of our home province, we are unwaveringly committed to maintaining and growing our title as Edmonton's leading air carrier, as exhibited by our growing network and track record of fueling Edmonton's economic pipeline through inbound tourism and investment attraction," said von Hoensbroech to a sold-out business audience at the Glenora Club. "The Edmonton community is at the heart of our ambitious growth strategy as we strive to further cement the city's well-deserved position on the global stage, making it one of the most connected cities of its size in North America."

In his remarks, von Hoensbroech summarized WestJet's leading investments in Edmonton and provided an update on the airline's progress in bolstering Edmonton's transborder connectivity and expanding its domestic network.

Economic growth through transborder connectivity
WestJet has been working closely with key partners to inject flights that the business community relies upon to further build the local economy and advance the airline's growth plan. Through collaboration and strategic network planning, WestJet has answered the call for an expanded transborder network, with the following achievements:

-As Alberta's largest and most important bilateral trade partner, WestJet has fulfilled the critical demand for transborder connectivity providing service to three brand new destinations including Atlanta, San Francisco and Nashville in 2023, alongside nine additional U.S. cities.
-Through community engagement and partnership, WestJet has developed a transborder network that provides essential connectivity to the region for business, conventions and major sporting events.
-Through travel and trade missions to Minneapolis and Atlanta, WestJet is facilitating connections amongst partners, generating greater two-way tourism opportunities in service of the local economies.

Investments for Edmonton at the forefront of WestJet's Western strategy
-Apart from Calgary, Edmonton is the most connected city in WestJet's network and continues to grow.
-WestJet has increased its capacity growth in Edmonton this summer by 13 per cent since 2022 and has aggressive growth plans to build upon this momentum.
-Providing 50 per cent of all air travel from Edmonton International Airport, WestJet is proud to stand as the number one carrier in the region.
-This year, WestJet will provide direct connectivity to 40 unique destinations including 20 domestic, 12 transborder and eight sun destinations.
-Since opening a WestJet base in Edmonton, employment has more than doubled compared to 2019, providing a direct and indirect impact on the local economy.

Record-setting summer for domestic connectivity
Building on momentum, WestJet is focused on the future and growing its domestic investments in Edmonton, through the following initiatives:

-Fulfilling long-standing requests of Edmonton's business community, WestJet recently announced year-round, non-stop services between Edmonton and Ottawa and Montreal, featuring well-timed and frequent flights.
-This summer, WestJet will serve four direct routes between Edmonton and Atlantic Canada, providing the most coast-to-coast connectivity in history, for the region.


Interesting timing, as it came less than a week from my post about the statistics behind WS's "focus cities/secondary bases". I know this was not a proper news release, it was a presentation to the Edmonton Chamber of Commerce, there was no route announcement or frequency changes (those had already happened in separate earlier new releases). Both airlines and airport authorities give presentations to Chambers of Commerce, Boards of Trade, various business associations, it happens for all major airports and airlines. The presentations are usually very rah-rah boostering, very glowing and laying on the charm real thick to maintain a good relationship (airlines and airports want to be seen as strong allies to business concerns, really delivering strong statistics that win people over and make them feel important. This release is heavy on that, it's a sales pitch and meant to be decidedly cocky. I've noted one interesting point in the sea of sugar-sweet compliments:

-Apart from Calgary, Edmonton is the most connected city in WestJet's network and continues to grow.

I am not sure what metric they are using for this claim, there is certainly a strong case for YEG being WS's 2nd most important base, but technically the facts don't present a definitive endorsement of it being second most connected. That term itself is so subjective, it could potentially mean different things. For example:

# of destinations
YEG - 39 destinations (33 mainline destinations, 6 Encore destinations, and 0 Link, includes year-round and seasonal) **destinations served by mainline and Encore are only counted once)
YVR - 39 destinations (30 mainline destinations, 5 Encore destinations, and 4 Link, includes year-round and seasonal) **destinations served by mainline and Encore are only counted once
YYZ - 48 destinations (all mainline, includes year-round and seasonal)

So YYZ is clearly the 2nd most 'connected' in terms of # of destinations. That total includes a ton of Carribean/Mexico/South, so many individual destinations. But often low frequencies, some even once weekly. So this is where the subjectivity comes in. Does having the most destinations served non-stop define it? Obviously not on its own, unless WS flat out lied to Edmonton and made that claim despite YYZ really being the winner

Or is connectivity judged by # of flights overall? By that metric this summer, YVR has ~490 weekly flights vs. 347 for YEG and 348 for YYZ (using week of August 12th-August 18th). Just comparing YVR and YEG, YEG absolutely has better connectivity to the Maritimes hands down, and even got back year round to YUL and YOW. YVR is stronger for transborder destinations and total number of flights, same for Mexcico/South (# of destinations are virtually the same, but YVR has more frequency). YYZ is strong for sun and US south, but underwhelming domestically.

By available seats, YVR is approx. 30% higher than YEG and 20% above YYZ summer 2024.

So each airport is pretty even in terms of "connectivity", different metrics present a slightly different picture. The numbers don't put YEG in clear second place to YYC though, so it's an interesting comment to make. Maybe it was said as a fluff piece to make businessman feel good, but it was presented as statement of fact.

At the end of the day, WS is YYC, and presentations or claims made to the secondary airports are just for good PR and advertising. It wouldn't be smart to go to Edmonton or Vancouver gatherings and say "we appreciate you and appreciate your business, but ultimately our goal is to build YYC as a singular global hub, and we will route you through there every chance we get. You will get decent service and attention, but the real focus is Calgary and not you". Unless they want to get killed, they won't mention YYC and their true aim to an Edmonton audience lol, understandable!

I should be a troll and go to their next presentation to a Vancouver organization (Chamber of Commerce, BOT, etc.) and say "you recently told YEG they were second most connected, but our data shows that isn't necesarily true. Is YEG more important to you than YVR?!?!" LOL I could never, that's such troll behaviour, but would be funny to see if he claimed YVR is second most important when he's here haha!
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  #983  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2024, 2:24 PM
Myst Myst is offline
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Originally Posted by zahav View Post
Maybe it was said as a fluff piece to make businessman feel good, but it was presented as statement of fact.
Yes.

Westjet’s self perception is strange at times. I think they do see themselves as a Calgary carrier, but also realize that they can’t limit themselves to that if they want to grow. They’d probably prefer to run everything through YYC, but also know that to compete and to defend their market share they need enough service from YEG, YVR and YWG, etc. to actually keep the YYC traffic, as if they aren’t a realistic option elsewhere they’d also be more vulnerable to competitors on the YYC routes. But one does also wonder if they want to serve everywhere at its full potential, or just enough to keep others out. Becoming a DL feeder seems to be a related part of that strategy.
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  #984  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2024, 3:21 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is offline
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AC has been pretty static I think, they haven't cut back really (other than from YYC, where they pulled out of SFO, LAX, DEN, IAH, and ORD and handed UA everything, the only route they kept was EWR). But they also haven't added noticeably.
Yes they have.

This year alone, they are adding:

YUL-AUS
YUL-STL
YUL-MSY
YYZ-CHS

Not to mention all the increases on other routes (see link below).

https://canadianaviationnews.ca/more...th-air-canada/

AC carries the vast majority of Canada-US demand (around 45-50%, last time I checked), and has added the most service in the last 10 years. No one else even comes close.

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Originally Posted by zahav View Post
They (AC) don't fly to IST themselves at all
They used to serve it, back around 2013-2014. They canceled due to political unrest/bombings in the city. Erdogan (Turkish president) is a loose cannon. So the politics plays a role in this as well.

Even TS used to serve YUL-IST, but it didn't last long. Around 2011 I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zahav View Post

I am not sure what metric they are using for this claim,

# of destinations
YEG - 39 destinations (33 mainline destinations, 6 Encore destinations, and 0 Link, includes year-round and seasonal) **destinations served by mainline and Encore are only counted once)
YVR - 39 destinations (30 mainline destinations, 5 Encore destinations, and 4 Link, includes year-round and seasonal) **destinations served by mainline and Encore are only counted once
YYZ - 48 destinations (all mainline, includes year-round and seasonal)
Clearly they are using number of mainline destinations as the metric.
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  #985  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2024, 3:29 PM
casper casper is online now
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Originally Posted by thenoflyzone View Post
Yes they have.

This year alone, they are adding:

YUL-AUS
YUL-STL
YUL-MSY
YYZ-CHS

Not to mention all the increases on other routes (see link below).

https://canadianaviationnews.ca/more...th-air-canada/

AC carries the vast majority of Canada-US demand, and has added the most service in the last 10 years. No one else even comes close.



They used to serve it, back around 2013-2014. They canceled due to political unrest/bombings in the city. Erdogan (Turkish president) is a loose cannon. So the politics plays a role in this as well.

Even TS used to serve YUL-IST, but it didn't last long. Around 2011 I think.
Well despite the issues in that country (and there are many), it is still a democracy in the NATO alliance and therefore should have a preferential relationship versus UAE and others in the region.
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  #986  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2024, 3:30 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is offline
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Well despite the issues in that country (and there are many), it is still a democracy in the NATO alliance and therefore should have a preferential relationship versus UAE and others in the region.
Turkey is not a democracy. It's an autocracy. Don't be fooled. Also, Turkey is one of the worst countries in the world in terms of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, human rights violations, etc.

https://www.civicus.org/index.php/re...gime-in-turkey

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/t...-for-the-west/

As for NATO, the only reason they are in it is for their strategic location within Western Asia. Nothing else. Politically, they are not 100% aligned with NATO policies. Just look at their stance with regards to Russia/Ukraine.

If I was the US/EU, I would kick them out of NATO.

Last edited by thenoflyzone; Apr 28, 2024 at 3:46 PM.
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  #987  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2024, 3:37 PM
casper casper is online now
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Turkey is not a democracy.
On paper it is. But poorly executed with a high degree of corruption and interference. Yes, it is autocracy in practice.
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  #988  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2024, 4:41 PM
fanofYOW fanofYOW is offline
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A little bit of older news (2 weeks-ish). Porter's CEO outlines vision for YOW in this video interview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7_2Dy3R_HY

Juicy stuff is between 23:00 to 39:00
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  #989  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2024, 5:36 PM
Djeffery Djeffery is online now
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Originally Posted by thenoflyzone View Post

Clearly they are using number of mainline destinations as the metric.
Which still makes them third behind YYC and YYZ, not second like claimed, doesn't it?
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  #990  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2024, 6:10 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is offline
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^ they probably meant to say second most connected “..in western Canada”.

That’s where my mind went automatically.
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  #991  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2024, 7:05 PM
TheGreatestX TheGreatestX is offline
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Originally Posted by zahav View Post
-This year, WestJet will provide direct connectivity to 40 unique destinations including 20 domestic, 12 transborder and eight sun destinations.

# of destinations
YEG - 39 destinations (33 mainline destinations, 6 Encore destinations, and 0 Link, includes year-round and seasonal) **destinations served by mainline and Encore are only counted once)
YVR - 39 destinations (30 mainline destinations, 5 Encore destinations, and 4 Link, includes year-round and seasonal) **destinations served by mainline and Encore are only counted once
YYZ - 48 destinations (all mainline, includes year-round and seasonal)
Hmm, either more to come or you missed one.
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  #992  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2024, 8:46 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is offline
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From zero UA mainline service to now 3 destinations: ORD, EWR and SFO.

Redeye eastbound, day trip westbound. Clearly timed to optimise connections over SFO.

PD starts YUL-SFO 3 days prior. Not the same timings, obviously, but maybe they're trying to push them out of the market, as a bonus.
Looks like UA has removed mainline service on ORD-YUL and EWR-YUL. They were both supposed to start August 1.
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  #993  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2024, 6:48 AM
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LO 044 LO 044 is offline
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Turkey is not a democracy. It's an autocracy. Don't be fooled. Also, Turkey is one of the worst countries in the world in terms of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, human rights violations, etc.

https://www.civicus.org/index.php/re...gime-in-turkey

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/t...-for-the-west/

As for NATO, the only reason they are in it is for their strategic location within Western Asia. Nothing else. Politically, they are not 100% aligned with NATO policies. Just look at their stance with regards to Russia/Ukraine.

If I was the US/EU, I would kick them out of NATO.
Agree completely and that is the way the world is going. Leaders of the pack are Russia, Hungary, China. Poland almost made the cut until the last election. Slovakia has just moved over to the "axis". All these countries in the rallying cry of "nationalism". This is the 1930's all over again but who cares about that. My kids watch morons on Tik Tok so we'll be fine.

NATO will never kick out Turkey. If they do, Turkey will move over to the axis so it won't happen. You know what they say, keep your friends close and your enemies closer. TK flies here. I am surprised AC doesn't reciprocate.

But for air travel I don't get it. Is Erdogan any more of a loose cannon then anywhere in the Middle East including Israel? AC also flies to Chile which has some problems. India as well albeit probably more so around the borders with Pakistan as opposed to New Delhi.
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  #994  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2024, 12:32 AM
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Ruh-roh, better cancel and rebook those Flair flights. From their sister carrier down under:

Bonza cancels all flights across Australia as owners consider airline’s ‘ongoing viability’
Passengers left stranded as services suspended amid speculation budget carrier’s aircraft have been repossessed
Follow our Australia news live blog for latest updates

The low-cost airline Bonza has abruptly cancelled all its flights across Australia, with speculation its aircraft have been repossessed, as its owners consider the viability of the carrier’s future.

Passengers were left stranded at a handful of airports when Bonza “temporarily suspended” all services due to be operated on Tuesday with no notice.

“Discussions are currently underway regarding the ongoing viability of the business,” Bonza’s CEO, Tim Jordan, said in a statement.

“We apologise to our customers who are impacted by this and we’re working as quickly as possible to determine a way forward that ensures there is ongoing competition in the Australian domestic aviation market.”..

...Meanwhile, aviation sources told the Guardian that Bonza’s fleet of Boeing 737 Max 8 aircraft had been repossessed.

Bonza’s private equity owners, the US firm 777 Partners, own the airline’s fleet of Boeing 737 Max 8 planes. The parent company also part owns the Canadian low-cost carrier Flair and leases its aircraft assets between the airlines.

Flair had some of its aircraft repossessed at short notice in 2023.

Bonza had been operating two aircraft wetleased from Flair in recent months, in addition to its fleet of four aircraft.

Bonza did not immediately respond to questions about aircraft repossessions...


https://www.theguardian.com/australi...ices-suspended
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  #995  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2024, 12:45 AM
Justanothermember Justanothermember is offline
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^^^TBH, I thought it would have been Flair to get to this stage first as Bonza had been doing decently until this last week or so. Regardless, I think the writing is on the wall for Flair.
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  #996  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2024, 1:46 AM
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^^^TBH, I thought it would have been Flair to get to this stage first as Bonza had been doing decently until this last week or so. Regardless, I think the writing is on the wall for Flair.
That’s why I do not plan to buy any tickets on Flair anytime soon. I hope that they manage to survive and move on. But it sucks for the employees who must be on pins and needles. But will there be another carrier who will attempt the ULCC model in the country?
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  #997  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2024, 2:34 AM
Justanothermember Justanothermember is offline
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Who knows. Maybe ULCCs simply can't exist in Canada for XYZ reasons. There has never been single ULCC established in this country beyond a handful of years to my knowledge. Australia is the same thing. Large geographically, small populated countries don't seem to be a winning recipe for the ULCC model. I can't imagine anyone wanting to take yet another chance in this area anytime soon.
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  #998  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2024, 2:47 AM
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Who knows. Maybe ULCCs simply can't exist in Canada for XYZ reasons. There has never been single ULCC established in this country beyond a handful of years to my knowledge. Australia is the same thing. Large geographically, small populated countries don't seem to be a winning recipe for the ULCC model. I can't imagine anyone wanting to take yet another chance in this area anytime soon.
I think the biggest problem is the point-to-point flying using 200 seat aircraft. Between Vancouver-Calgary-Edmonton-Toronto-Montreal maybe they can make it a go of point-to-point flying. For nearly everywhere else they need to invest in the infrastructure to transfer bags and connect passengers through a network.

In a place like Victoria or Saskatoon, when these ULCC come in is with sub-daily service, it does not work.
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  #999  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2024, 8:42 AM
Justanothermember Justanothermember is offline
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I think the biggest problem is the point-to-point flying using 200 seat aircraft. Between Vancouver-Calgary-Edmonton-Toronto-Montreal maybe they can make it a go of point-to-point flying. For nearly everywhere else they need to invest in the infrastructure to transfer bags and connect passengers through a network.

In a place like Victoria or Saskatoon, when these ULCC come in is with sub-daily service, it does not work.
I agree about the need for connecting flights, but I also think smaller aircraft for smaller yield routes are better than the MAX planes both Bonza and Flair use(d) on all their routes. There are so many factor why Bonza collapsed and Flair will also soon collapse. It's a shame as the reduction in competition means prices stay high. Porter coming into the market helps to a point, but apart from that it's still basically an AC/WS duopoly market, as with Australia where it is a Qantas/Virgin duopoly market.

When Flair collapses at some point this year, it's going to be a disaster for KW airport. They will only be left with WS service to Calgary and nothing else beside two seasonal sun destinations on Sunwing, which is essentially now WS as well.

Last edited by Justanothermember; Apr 30, 2024 at 8:58 AM.
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  #1000  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2024, 12:49 PM
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I agree about the need for connecting flights, but I also think smaller aircraft for smaller yield routes are better than the MAX planes both Bonza and Flair use(d) on all their routes. There are so many factor why Bonza collapsed and Flair will also soon collapse. It's a shame as the reduction in competition means prices stay high. Porter coming into the market helps to a point, but apart from that it's still basically an AC/WS duopoly market, as with Australia where it is a Qantas/Virgin duopoly market.

When Flair collapses at some point this year, it's going to be a disaster for KW airport. They will only be left with WS service to Calgary and nothing else beside two seasonal sun destinations on Sunwing, which is essentially now WS as well.
Disaster may be a bit strong. Locals will likely see it as a temporary setback.
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