HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #12721  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2019, 5:50 PM
DudeGuy's Avatar
DudeGuy DudeGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Center City Philadelphia
Posts: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontst17 View Post
Preach brotha. These are literally the conversations that ended up in the bulldozing of neighborhoods to create project towers, that are now being torn down across the country. “This land is too valuable to have poor people live here. Let’s bulldoze all the lawns and driveways in the northeast then put high density subsidized housing where we can stick the poor people. Next we’ll build “luxury” homes in place. That way we can create our enclave in the city to squeeze more taxes from wealthy people.” Its a cycle and it’s a crap trickle down bs.
You act as if there aren't examples of public housing being torn down and vibrant, dense mixed income communities rising in their place. We're not operating in the 1950s anymore.

https://www.urban-atlantic.com/all-w...r-carrollsburg

http://jdland-com.securec82.ezhostin.../dc/capper.cfm

Also people seem to be ignoring this part of my initial statement:
Quote:
They could afford to buy new land if the city upzoned lots like this and sold them to the highest bidder, provided a minimum affordable housing %.
     
     
  #12722  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2019, 6:54 PM
cardeza cardeza is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by DudeGuy View Post
You act as if there aren't examples of public housing being torn down and vibrant, dense mixed income communities rising in their place. We're not operating in the 1950s anymore.

https://www.urban-atlantic.com/all-w...r-carrollsburg

http://jdland-com.securec82.ezhostin.../dc/capper.cfm

Also people seem to be ignoring this part of my initial statement:
Arent they tearing down 40s era low rise old school public housing and building something modern with some retail and additional density? I thought this was a major improvement over 2 story barracks style project housing.

The CITY does not control PHA and cannot sell any PHA land. My guess is there are federal rules in place that govern what HUD funded agencies can and cannot sell. They are not private developers. Its amazing how people are oblivious to how many would be offended by the "sell the land to a developer and build something for those people elsewhere" sentiment could be to many.....
     
     
  #12723  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2019, 7:00 PM
Jawnadelphia's Avatar
Jawnadelphia Jawnadelphia is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Wilmington, Delaware
Posts: 2,797
     
     
  #12724  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2019, 7:01 PM
cardeza cardeza is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontst17 View Post
Preach brotha. These are literally the conversations that ended up in the bulldozing of neighborhoods to create project towers, that are now being torn down across the country. “This land is too valuable to have poor people live here. Let’s bulldoze all the lawns and driveways in the northeast then put high density subsidized housing where we can stick the poor people. Next we’ll build “luxury” homes in place. That way we can create our enclave in the city to squeeze more taxes from wealthy people.” Its a cycle and it’s a crap trickle down bs.
Some people post here and I wonder how much they know about Philadelphia. They discuss these areas like they are in master's class on urban design principles with no context. To the east of the viaduct you have hundreds of mostly 2 story homes in this neighborhood. There are very few large apt buildings and aside from old factories- very little above 3 stories. Almost EVERY part of North, West and South Philly is close to transit. Saying, there "should" be something much more dense here because transit is nearby is funny when you think about all of the subway, RR and bus service running through North Philly. This is 10th street, not Broad Street- the proposal is plenty dense in relation to the neighborhood. There is another phase of housing being built a block away and the units are only 2 or 3 stories.
     
     
  #12725  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 12:40 PM
UndifferentiatEd UndifferentiatEd is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 7
People don't like PHA and don't like seeing any PHA housing stick around. I understand the sentiment. Projects historically are hotspots for crime and all sorts of neighborhood complaints. Likewise individually owned PHA houses are often times the problem house on the block in terms of crime, litter and disturbances. This is most peoples' interaction with PHA so its no wonder they want to see those properties sold off and subsidized housing removed from their neighborhood.
     
     
  #12726  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 12:48 PM
Boku Boku is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 770
A tidbit at the end of a Business Journal article on PREIT and FDP:

Quote:
To that end, PREIT is also looking to harvest development potential at seven of its properties — five of which are in the Philadelphia area, including Fashion District and Plymouth Meeting, and two in the Washington, D.C., area. The company has the ability to build 5,000 to 7,000 apartments and hotel rooms at those properties and is exploring selling land or development rights.

The company is working with 15 qualified prospective buyers and seven confidentiality agreements have been executed on the parcels. It is meeting and providing tours on those prospective projects. It is hopeful that it will finalize deals by the end of this year or in the first quarter of 2020 that will result in $150 million to $300 million in proceeds.
Perhaps we'll hear something about the development over the mall?

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...d-fashion.html
     
     
  #12727  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 1:33 PM
cardeza cardeza is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by UndifferentiatEd View Post
People don't like PHA and don't like seeing any PHA housing stick around. I understand the sentiment. Projects historically are hotspots for crime and all sorts of neighborhood complaints. Likewise individually owned PHA houses are often times the problem house on the block in terms of crime, litter and disturbances. This is most peoples' interaction with PHA so its no wonder they want to see those properties sold off and subsidized housing removed from their neighborhood.
Im pretty sure none of that can be substantiated. In many of the worst areas of the city you wont see any difference in crime or litter on or off PHA property- in fact, in many cases the PHA property is probably cleaner and better maintained than the private housing. Let's not add too much high mindedness to the explanation- what some have an issue with is "valuable" land in the inner city being used to house lower income people- even though that's whose been there for the last 50 years.
     
     
  #12728  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 1:34 PM
Redddog Redddog is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 1,366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
...Where I live, I'd pay an extra $1mm for parking at my house....
You need a better realtor.
     
     
  #12729  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 1:36 PM
cardeza cardeza is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
You need a better realtor.
Again, it reflects the lack of awareness about the diversity of the housing stock and neighborhoods in the city. Parking is not an issue in 70% of Philadelphia and outside of CC, UC and South Philly you wont find many working or middle class households that can afford a car without at least one.
     
     
  #12730  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 1:46 PM
Redddog Redddog is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 1,366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boku View Post
A tidbit at the end of a Business Journal article on PREIT and FDP:



Perhaps we'll hear something about the development over the mall?

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...d-fashion.html
They also own a bunch of storefronts across the street from the FDP (the Robinson building etc). THAT would be awesome if they could move the needle on that. That block is one of the last super dilapidated stretches on East Market.
     
     
  #12731  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 3:09 PM
Londonee Londonee is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fitler Square (via London)
Posts: 2,042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
You need a better realtor.
In Fitler Square that number's about right - or darn close - for the size of my house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
They also own a bunch of storefronts across the street from the FDP (the Robinson building etc). THAT would be awesome if they could move the needle on that. That block is one of the last super dilapidated stretches on East Market.
Yeah that'd be fantastic. Those south side blocks definitely affect the vibe/ambiance of the street. Perhaps here is where they can lure a big box or two.
     
     
  #12732  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 3:12 PM
Redddog Redddog is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 1,366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
In Fitler Square that number's about right - or darn close - for the size of my house.
Well in Old City, which is no slouch, that number is nuts.

Break that own for me. If you want parking and a nice 2 bed, 1500 sq ft., what you looking at?
     
     
  #12733  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 5:18 PM
Frontst17 Frontst17 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardeza View Post
Some people post here and I wonder how much they know about Philadelphia. They discuss these areas like they are in master's class on urban design principles with no context. To the east of the viaduct you have hundreds of mostly 2 story homes in this neighborhood. There are very few large apt buildings and aside from old factories- very little above 3 stories. Almost EVERY part of North, West and South Philly is close to transit. Saying, there "should" be something much more dense here because transit is nearby is funny when you think about all of the subway, RR and bus service running through North Philly. This is 10th street, not Broad Street- the proposal is plenty dense in relation to the neighborhood. There is another phase of housing being built a block away and the units are only 2 or 3 stories.
I’ve felt that way for a long time. Either they dont know the city or don’t care to know. There’s plenty of information out there if they want to propose something that actually works for the citizens of this city.
     
     
  #12734  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 5:39 PM
UndifferentiatEd UndifferentiatEd is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardeza View Post
Im pretty sure none of that can be substantiated. In many of the worst areas of the city you wont see any difference in crime or litter on or off PHA property- in fact, in many cases the PHA property is probably cleaner and better maintained than the private housing. Let's not add too much high mindedness to the explanation- what some have an issue with is "valuable" land in the inner city being used to house lower income people- even though that's whose been there for the last 50 years.
I'm pretty sure if you ask any long time Philadelphian, and not a recent transplant/gentrifier, they'd agree with my sentiment. Maybe people say they don't care for the sake of appearances but nobody wants to live next to PHA housing if they have the choice. It negatively affects property values for surrounding homes, and it does increase litter and crime. That should be obvious, and there is a lot of research showing that programs like housing vouchers increase crime in their host neighborhoods.
     
     
  #12735  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 5:45 PM
Redddog Redddog is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 1,366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
In Fitler Square that number's about right - or darn close - for the size of my house.



Yeah that'd be fantastic. Those south side blocks definitely affect the vibe/ambiance of the street. Perhaps here is where they can lure a big box or two.
What I wouldn't give for a Container Store and a Lowes.
     
     
  #12736  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2019, 5:54 PM
PHL10's Avatar
PHL10 PHL10 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 1,589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
Well in Old City, which is no slouch, that number is nuts.

Break that own for me. If you want parking and a nice 2 bed, 1500 sq ft., what you looking at?
That number seems nuts to me as well. I'd say $50-$100 tops for single car parking.

This house for sale in Ritt claims two parking spots and is sub-million.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...10210485_zpid/
__________________
I've been living under a rock.
     
     
  #12737  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2019, 9:33 PM
PhilliesPhan's Avatar
PhilliesPhan PhilliesPhan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 1,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardeza View Post
Some people post here and I wonder how much they know about Philadelphia. They discuss these areas like they are in master's class on urban design principles with no context. To the east of the viaduct you have hundreds of mostly 2 story homes in this neighborhood. There are very few large apt buildings and aside from old factories- very little above 3 stories. Almost EVERY part of North, West and South Philly is close to transit. Saying, there "should" be something much more dense here because transit is nearby is funny when you think about all of the subway, RR and bus service running through North Philly. This is 10th street, not Broad Street- the proposal is plenty dense in relation to the neighborhood. There is another phase of housing being built a block away and the units are only 2 or 3 stories.
Not only was I raised in West Philly, but I spend a lot of time in that area--especially since I still live nearby as a resident of Francisville. I think that there's absolutely nothing wrong with demanding better density and design standards from the PHA, an organization that has no business being a developer in many parts of the city. North Philly is historically dense and transit-oriented, and properties located close to transit (not just rail transit) should be built out at the maximum allowable density, especially since the PHA still has a years-long waiting list. That surface parking lot could be developed to provide additional units to prospective residents; instead, the PHA still believes that space for lifeless, inanimate cars is more important than space for humans to live.

This is also the huge problem I have with what stands where the Allen Homes used to be (although, back in the 90s, people believed that the area would never attain land values high enough to warrant new construction from the private market), new PHA housing in Cecil B. Moore/Templetown, and their taking of Sharswood.

If I were a Councilmember, I would ensure that the PHA would not be able to develop in my district, less they cut the suburban-style crap with a ton of parking from their plans. I would also try to free up as much land from City hands as possible, which is another huge problem that hinders the progress of this city.
__________________
No one outsmarts a Fox!

Temple University '18 ']['
     
     
  #12738  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2019, 9:46 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Bala Cynwyd
Posts: 3,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
What I wouldn't give for a Container Store and a Lowes.
These should go in the Avenue of the Arts parking garage instead of the shitty clubs and declining bars that are currently there. Great location for them.
     
     
  #12739  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2019, 9:51 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Bala Cynwyd
Posts: 3,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHL10 View Post
That number seems nuts to me as well. I'd say $50-$100 tops for single car parking.

This house for sale in Ritt claims two parking spots and is sub-million.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...10210485_zpid/
There's lots of homes in every neighborhood in the City with in-home parking at under $1 million. They are just older. Maybe the OP just meant that new construction with parking is over $1 million. That's true enough. But that's because pretty much all new construction single family housing in Ritt/Fit is over $1 million.
     
     
  #12740  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2019, 1:42 PM
cardeza cardeza is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by UndifferentiatEd View Post
I'm pretty sure if you ask any long time Philadelphian, and not a recent transplant/gentrifier, they'd agree with my sentiment. Maybe people say they don't care for the sake of appearances but nobody wants to live next to PHA housing if they have the choice. It negatively affects property values for surrounding homes, and it does increase litter and crime. That should be obvious, and there is a lot of research showing that programs like housing vouchers increase crime in their host neighborhoods.
Any intelligent person who has actually seen the projects developed in the 90s and 2000s would absolutely disagree. Have you seen the area around the former MLK development in South Philly? Or the area redeveloped in East Falls? The projects developed by PHA absolutely did not bring down those areas- PHA changed the look and layout of the old projects specifically to better integrate them into the neighborhood and remove the barrier to development of the adjacent areas. Many areas near PHA properties are very stable, if not improving real estate markets.
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:15 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.