SkyTrain Station Renovations

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by huenthar

I really hope they put a public restroom in that huge east station house. Much more useful than retail space!!

...but retail would generate more revenue for Translink...

The blurb on the Buzzer Blog site suggests that they will be shutting down one side of the platform at a time (as opposed to one end of the platform as I speculated earlier).

[officedweller]

I read that too - but that doesn't make sense. I think by "side" the spokeperson meant "end". If they shut down a side, you would need alternating single track running, which has not been mentioned.

Edit: Checked the Buzzer blog and they have changed it to "east side of the platform" i.e. meaning "end". (i.e. you would view a station longitudinally (like a ship). You wouldn't call the bow or stern of a ship a "side" of the ship).

Another example where a lot of confusion may result from people not choosing their words correctly.

Although it still says "work will be done on the station platforms one at a time" - which would mean inbound platform and outbound platform... I suspect the platforms will be divided into 4 work zones for the project - east and west ends of each platform.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I read that too - but that doesn't make sense. I think by "side" the spokeperson meant "end". If they shut down a side, you would need alternating single track running, which has not been mentioned.

It does make sense, and the shuttle plan could mean either situation - one end shutdown or one track shutdown. Either:

1) most trains will pass through the station without stopping because there is one shared track and they only want the occasional shuttle to block it, or

2) most trains will pass through the station because the platform has been made "short" and the only train that can fit the platform is the 2-car shuttle.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by huenthar

I really hope they put a public restroom in that huge east station house. Much more useful than retail space!!

There's already a standalone public washroom at that corner as well as a nicer set a short walk over at Pacific Central. I doubt that another washroom will be included here unless the standalone needs to be removed to make way for the new station house.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Zassk

It does make sense, and the shuttle plan could mean either situation - one end shutdown or one track shutdown. Either:

1) most trains will pass through the station without stopping because there is one shared track and they only want the occasional shuttle to block it, or

2) most trains will pass through the station because the platform has been made "short" and the only train that can fit the platform is the 2-car shuttle.

I think we assume that it will be (2), since there are no switches between Broadway Station and Main St. Station (which would mean that Broadway would have to operate single platform in the (1) scenario).

Track map here:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=172865

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Zassk

It does make sense, and the shuttle plan could mean either situation - one end shutdown or one track shutdown. Either:

1) most trains will pass through the station without stopping because there is one shared track and they only want the occasional shuttle to block it, or

2) most trains will pass through the station because the platform has been made "short" and the only train that can fit the platform is the 2-car shuttle.

No, that makes no sense at all.

It HAS to be one end only closed down, with both sides (inbound and outbound) still open.

Otherwise you have to run single track service between Stadium and Nanaimo all day (because the shuttle will be running in opposite direction one way). That is an impossible scenario for rush hour. That would result in reduced frequency to about 12 minutes. For that you would need to have long trains (not 2 car shuttles) to move as many people as possible. And then all trains could stop at Main (no need for a shuttle).

So the key clue here is 2 car shuttle trains. That means they are worried about train length instead of capacity. Why would you be worried about train length? Because there isn't enough room for a 4 car train to stop at the station because too much of the platform is under construction. Which means one end of the platform is closed.

This is probably due to the fact they are removing the mezzanine under the west side. That means the that the whole west end of the station will need to close to remove the mezzanine, stairs, escalators and elevators and then rebuild them. So during this time, the station will probably only be accessible by the east stairs. Rebuilding the east side station house will have a much smaller impact, and that's probably why the shuttle trains are only needed for 4 months instead of the whole time. Once they are done rebuilding the west side, most of the station will be done.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by huenthar

down escalators are a waste of space... the people who absolutely need them are few enough that they can use the elevator.

I think you are underestimating how useful escalators are.

First, you don't have to be fully disabled to want to use a down escalator. A lot of people have knee and back problems not severe enough to immobilize them, but bad enough that stairs are painful.

Walking down stairs is also a hazard to the elderly. A lot of old people are fully mobile until that one time they fall down a flight of stairs, then their life is basically over after that and they spend what's left in a care home. So why not try to keep the costs down on our medical system by having more escalators in public places. That's the whole reason malls exclusively have escalators now, not because we are lazy sad sacks, but to avoid the public scene of old people falling down stairs. Have you ever seen an old person navigating the Canada Line stations, like 41st, that have a lot of down only stairs. It's sad.

The other reason down escalators would be extremely useful at Main Street is its location. First, it is close to Science world, and as such is popular with families. And small kids are slow at going down stairs. That can slow down the flow at a busy station. And who wants to see kids fall down stairs? So it is good they will have stairs on the West side.

The other reason is the Train and Bus station. Some people getting off at Main will have luggage. They will go down the East side. So it would have been nice to have an escalator on that side too, to make it easier for travelers, especially guests to our fine city, to get to and from the Station with their luggage.

[Mac Write]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

I think you are underestimating how useful escalators are.

First, you don't have to be fully disabled to want to use a down escalator. A lot of people have knee and back problems not severe enough to immobilize them, but bad enough that stairs are painful.

Walking down stairs is also a hazard to the elderly. A lot of old people are fully mobile until that one time they fall down a flight of stairs, then their life is basically over after that and they spend what's left in a care home. So why not try to keep the costs down on our medical system by having more escalators in public places. That's the whole reason malls exclusively have escalators now, not because we are lazy sad sacks, but to avoid the public scene of old people falling down stairs. Have you ever seen an old person navigating the Canada Line stations, like 41st, that have a lot of down only stairs. It's sad.

The other reason down escalators would be extremely useful at Main Street is its location. First, it is close to Science world, and as such is popular with families. And small kids are slow at going down stairs. That can slow down the flow at a busy station. And who wants to see kids fall down stairs? So it is good they will have stairs on the West side.

The other reason is the Train and Bus station. Some people getting off at Main will have luggage. They will go down the East side. So it would have been nice to have an escalator on that side too, to make it easier for travelers, especially guests to our fine city, to get to and from the Station with their luggage.

Thank you! Someone with a straight head. I think you should help push Translink to go to all stations having down escalators as the next level of accessability. It's essential, not a luxury. I am legally blind and have no depth perception. It is extremely dangerous for me to be using the stairs at Stadium station to meet my mom at Costco.

With your comment about malls, escalators should be essential by law for transnit.

[nname]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

The other reason is the Train and Bus station. Some people getting off at Main will have luggage. They will go down the East side.

This is a bit off-topic, but.. if you are carrying luggage that's big enough to make you hard to go down stairs (which may not even be that big..), then use the elevator. DO NOT use escalator. It is safer for you and safer for everyone else. I had personally seen someone's luggage rolling down an escalator, taking out 2 people below it.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

It HAS to be one end only closed down, with both sides (inbound and outbound) still open. Otherwise you have to run single track service between Stadium and Nanaimo all day (because the shuttle will be running in opposite direction one way).

You are confusing "shutting down the platform" with "shutting down the track". If they shut down one side (i.e., the inbound platform) then it just means that only the outbound shuttle train can stop at the station. And if they shut down the other side, it means that only the inbound train can stop. No need for single tracking at all. People arriving or departing from the station would need to plan accordingly.

Even so, I'm rather inclined to think that they will shut down one end of the platform, because that explains why 4-car trains can't stop but 2-car trains can.

[nname]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

You are confusing "shutting down the platform" with "shutting down the track". If they shut down one side (i.e., the inbound platform) then it just means that only the outbound shuttle train can stop at the station. And if they shut down the other side, it means that only the inbound train can stop. No need for single tracking at all. People arriving or departing from the station would need to plan accordingly.

Well... that won't work too well when the elevator and escalators are in the middle of the platform. They will either have a very narrow open platform, or they'll have to build them in two parts...

[Spork]

Escalators are easily $250k/each. They are all custom made for length/angle. Factor in utilities, installation/modification to the existing structure, and you're probably looking at $500k-$750k per station that they don't exist. Not a very inexpensive proposition. You're better off adding in more elevator capacity which would be useful for a broader set of people.

[officedweller]

Strollers are banned from escalators - and likewise roller luggage would likely fall into the same category. In particular, the delay in disembarking the escalator can create a Laurel and Hardy type comedic logjam on a crowded escalator.

The notes at the TransLink link state that the east stationhouse will have an elevator (someone above noted bigger than the west stationhouse.

We expect construction to start in early 2013 and finish in 2014. Some of the upgrades you can expect include:

An expanded east station house
Escalator and elevator access to the platform at the east entrance
Reconfigured west station house with direct escalator access to the platform from street level
Additional station retail locations
Security improvements
Open station design with better lighting and visibility

Some of you may think that this means the elevator only goes one-way - TO the platform - and will not take passengers down to the ground. I would, however, think otherwise.

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

You are confusing "shutting down the platform" with "shutting down the track". If they shut down one side (i.e., the inbound platform) then it just means that only the outbound shuttle train can stop at the station. And if they shut down the other side, it means that only the inbound train can stop. No need for single tracking at all. People arriving or departing from the station would need to plan accordingly.

Even so, I'm rather inclined to think that they will shut down one end of the platform, because that explains why 4-car trains can't stop but 2-car trains can.

The initial copy stated:

- The shuttle trains will stop as normal at Waterfront, Burrard, Granville, Stadium-Chinatown, Main Street-Science World and Commercial-Broadway stations.

This does not suggest one side of the Main St. platform being closed so as to only serve either inbound or outbound trains.

[officedweller]

BTW here are a couple of slides from the presentation boards.

Looks like the platform is being lengthened to full length (i.e. til the guideways converge)
(temporarily enclosed in glass til longer trains implemented).
The east stationhouse will be almost at Station Street (i.e. closer to train station).

http://www.translink.ca/~/media/Docu...0Upgrades.ashx


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Note that the work schedule clarifies the east and west closures of the platform.
Note the error under Phase 1 (there's an "s" on escalator) (elsewhere the boards state "up escalator"):


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Looks like the platform is being lengthened to full length (i.e. til the guideways converge)
(temporarily enclosed in glass til longer trains implemented).
The east stationhouse will be almost at Station Street (i.e. closer to train station).

Nice post, thanks.

I still don't like their use of the word "side" (as in "east side") to describe the closure - "end" is a lot less confusing IMHO.

Based on the apparent length of the platform extension from the drawing, it seems like they should be able to build the platform extension first, then switch full-length service over to it and close the existing platform for renovation. That would be a lot less hassle than the shuttle scheme. But perhaps the extended platform isn't as long as it looks.

[officedweller]

Agreed on the side / end distinction. The station should be thought of longitudinally - like a ship.
The bow and stern of a ship are not "sides".

I think the "extended" platform will be blocked off by glass (like the passarelle over Broadway at Broadway Station). While I guess they could omit the glass for the construction period, the "platform edge" of the passarelle part probably wouldn't be finished like a finished platform would be and could even be set back from the guideway (and then constructed out to the track when eventually commissioned).

[DKaz]

I had shin splints and sprained ankles before and it would take me a couple of minutes to go down the stairs.

And when I'm going down with my three year old, he's not so quick yet and I worry about him falling so I hold his hand, on a lot of stairs that means only one person at a time can squeeze by us.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by nname

This is a bit off-topic, but.. if you are carrying luggage that's big enough to make you hard to go down stairs (which may not even be that big..), then use the elevator. DO NOT use escalator. It is safer for you and safer for everyone else. I had personally seen someone's luggage rolling down an escalator, taking out 2 people below it.

It doesn't need to be BIG to be hard to manage down stairs. Anyone visiting Tokyo or Paris or London can attest to the numerous places where having only stairs can be a major pain when lugging even a piece of carry-on.

[mr.x]

That platform extension for Main looks absolutely massive...it looks like as if they're extending the existing 80-metre platform lengths to 120-metres. I suppose they have the cash to spend on from the federal capital infrastructure grants.

Great on Translink for moving forward with these improvements.

[officedweller]

It'll be a good example of constructing retail under a viaduct.