PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown III

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by guyFROMtheBURGH

Having lived in Pittsburgh and currently working in downtown Allentown, I just have to chime in:

Oakland is impressive considering it feels like a standalone CBD yet only 2 miles from the golden triangle. However, Allentown is definitely a powerhouse in its own way. It boasts a solid downtown and great urban street grid.

Conclusion:
Allentown > Oakland (in isolation)

Picture below for comparison of 'main' streets:

The "CBD" portion of Allentown isn't very impressive. The scope of the urban landscape surrounding it however is, since the two-story rowhouse density is something like 20 by 30 blocks, with very little lost to urban renewal. It has much more of a "mini Philly" feel than anywhere in Pittsburgh.

I always found it surprising, given Allentown's walkability and historic urban fabric that it hasn't really gentrified at all, even though there is some new development in the downtown area. Seems like, much like a lot of the smaller cities in Eastern PA, it's sort of become the go-to place for lower-income Latinos who can't afford to live in NYC any longer.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by ks2006

Really, Allentown?? I don't think Allentown is anywhere near the level of Oakland. it has maybe 5 or 6 blocks of 'real' CBD. Oakland is much larger. University City Philly is pretty comaparable to Oakland though.

Oakland may be larger, but it's certainly more sprawling and very fragmented, without any real central feel and with multiple land uses (much of it non-urban in form). Most importantly in the comparison though, is that Oakland still solidly serves a "cultural center/university/medical" district, rather than a "downtown" or CBD. Though I imagine with the significant development occurring, it will result in it becoming more of a downtown-ish area.

I know it's often claimed that Oakland is the 3rd largest employment center in the state... which may or may not be true... I'm not sure how "they" come up with geographic boundaries to get the numbers. But I would have to imagine that Oakland is pretty high up there in employment figures regardless.

University City is really just an extension of Center City Philly though, especially now. And to me, it's never really been separate enough to be considered one of Pennsylvania's "downtowns".

The opinion shared on here recently that Oakland may be the 3rd most impressive downtown in the state really depends on what one's definition of impressive is, I guess. I mean, I think it's a pretty impressive medical/university district-culutural center-activity hub for Pennsylvania or anywhere for that matter. It certainly is more vibrant than most any other PA downtown oustide of Center City Philly and Downtown Pittsburgh. But I also don't really consider Oakland to be a "downtown"... because it's really not... in design or function.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by pj3000

The opinion shared on here recently that Oakland may be the 3rd most impressive downtown in the state really depends on what one's definition of impressive is, I guess. I mean, I think it's a pretty impressive medical/university district-culutural center-activity hub for Pennsylvania or anywhere for that matter. It certainly is more vibrant than most any other PA downtown oustide of Center City Philly and Downtown Pittsburgh. But I also don't really consider Oakland to be a "downtown"... because it's really not... in design or function.

East Liberty in its heydey was much more of a second CBD for Pittsburgh than Oakland was today. It never had a large number of jobs, but it was the primary retail node for the entirety of the East End, basically serving the traditional function of a "downtown" everywhere that giant office towers don't crowd retail out.

[themaguffin]

"Downtown" is not the right word to use. We're describing CBDs which are not necessarily traditional downtowns.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

"Downtown" is not the right word to use. We're describing CBDs which are not necessarily traditional downtowns.

Maybe not, but I think we are pretty much using the terms interchangably. And in this case, Oakland is not a traditional CBD either.

[bmust71]

https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsbur...roject-in.html

E Properties, the group behind the almost demolition of the 44th street church, is proposing a 25 unit, 5 story condo building on the vacant lot next to Piccolo Forno. I think someone found a few weeks ago a proposal for an office building on this site but now it is strictly residential with ground floor retail.

Interested to see what 5 stories will look like on this parcel. Don't know if there is anything over 3 stories on that block. The article does say they plan to setback the 5th floor

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by bmust71

https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsbur...roject-in.html

E Properties, the group behind the almost demolition of the 44th street church, is proposing a 25 unit, 5 story condo building on the vacant lot next to Piccolo Forno. I think someone found a few weeks ago a proposal for an office building on this site but now it is strictly residential with ground floor retail.

Interested to see what 5 stories will look like on this parcel. Don't know if there is anything over 3 stories on that block. The article does say they plan to setback the 5th floor

It was covered back on the 6/21 ZBA agenda. Confusingly, it was listed as only four stories at the time. Seems they decided against that version and are asking for more on July 12th.

The 25 unit count seemed big to me for the parcels in question, even with five stories. I'm glad I went back and looked, because the development area includes not only the grassy lots by the corner, but also that surface lot Picolo Forno has used for parking.

The office space is going to be rehabbing the "Transmission Building" which is almost catty-corner by Ater Way.

I am guessing the condos will sell well at any price, because that's just about the most desirable location I can think of in Lawrenceville in terms of a ridiculous number of amenities within a two block radius.

[themaguffin]

And in this case, Oakland is not a traditional CBD either.

It's not in the sense of one using CBD as = downtown.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

It's not in the sense of one using CBD as = downtown.

It's a matter of semantics.

Regardless, both terms/their definitions do not fit Oakland well; particularly if one is attempting to use the terms in comparing Oakland to other PA cities' actual downtowns/CBDs.

[themaguffin]

That's my point. One must drop the semantics. Oakland is a major center of employment (and other things).

[eschaton]

IMHO Oakland fits most of the definitions of either a CBD or a downtown. It has a large concentration of white-collar office jobs, lots of tall buildings, a strong commercial element, and several civic destinations (Carnegie Museum of Art/Natural History, main Carnegie Library, Phipps, Soldiers & Sailors). It's also the major secondary node for commutes across the entire Pittsburgh metro.

Oakland is, however, kinda diffuse. The Forbes/Fifth Corridor is undoubtedly the heart of it, but a lot of the most intense development is basically broken around Schenley Plaza/The Cathedral of Learning, with CMU (which is technically in Squirrel Hill), the S Craig business district, and the highrise residential district to the north basically their own thing. If all of this was compacted into the area South Oakland is today it would rival downtown in size, if not intensity.

[eschaton]

Another article about the planned "Papa J's" project in The Strip. Details:

1. The developer is unclear if they will be forced to abide by RIV or UI zoning, which means development is up in the air. They're currently going forward with UI zoning, but he sounds willing to develop under RIV if forced.

2. Asking for 109 feet/nine stories (60 feet currently allowed under UI). They will also apparently need a variance due to the size of the parking garage.

3. It's being designed by Rothschild Doyno. The firm has added some elements to help it comply with the spirit of RIV zoning (like stepping back the upper stories) even though they aren't building it to RIV specifications.

4. 186,000 square feet development in total.

5. Five-story parking garage with 224 spaces, plus 40 bike stalls. Three floors of office space above. With one floor of commercial on the ground story, that's nine in total. Presumably the hotel would be in the second building.

[Minivan Werner]

I could see the folks in the Otto Milk building complaining that 9 story buildings in that spot would block their views of downtown.

I wonder if this is a case where they propose 9 stories, then downgrade it to 6 so the NIMBYs can cry victory.

[bmust71]

http://www.post-gazette.com/business...s/201806260115

Continental Real Estate gets a 6 month extension on developing lot 4 on the North Shore. The article says they are looking for something in the 4-6 story range. There was also mention of previous plans for a 250 unit apartment complex that was scrapped-never knew that

[eschaton]

Because it's concentrating on finishing out the residential component of Buncher's Strip project, NRP has moved the 322-unit apartment project at 2313 Wharton Street on the South Side to a lower priority. It may still get built, but it's far from a done deal.

[Urbanthusiat]

Bosch Center for Artificial Intelligence establishes research lab in Pittsburgh, invests $8 million in partnership with Carnegie Mellon University, hires leading AI expert

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by bmust71

http://www.post-gazette.com/business...s/201806260115

Continental Real Estate gets a 6 month extension on developing lot 4 on the North Shore. The article says they are looking for something in the 4-6 story range. There was also mention of previous plans for a 250 unit apartment complex that was scrapped-never knew that

This is such total BS:

"Stadium authority officials tied the decision to grant the extension to the ongoing construction of the seven-story office building across the street from Lot 4."

“We want to get that SAP building open to lessen the potential problems with construction at the site,” he said.

Mary Conturo, SEA executive director, said it was prudent to get the SAP building construction “well underway” before any new endeavors are undertaken."

“From our standpoint it made sense to get the construction well underway and understand the impact of that to help define what the next development could be,” Ms. Conturo said.

“We have a project we’re all excited about. We’re working on the final details. Given the construction with SAP Ariba, it seems irresponsible to put another shovel in the ground until we have all the details and plans worked out,” he said.


So what is it? Is it that construction of the SAP building a block away could cause "potential problems" with construction? Or is it that they want the SAP building's impact to "help define" the new development, which will allow them to work out the "details and plans"?

Either way, these excuses are fucking pathetic.

So two construction projects a block away from each other cannot occur concurrently now? Just much too hard for Continental to do, huh? And just what the hell are they looking to find out about a medium-sized office building's "impact" in order to guide their "details and plans" for the surface parking lot development a block away?

[TBone7281]

Originally Posted by bmust71

Papa J's owner is queuing up development on his family owned surface lot in the strip:

"Michael Troiani, owner of the Papa J’s Ristorante in Carnegie destroyed by fire in March, is proposing the construction of two nine-story buildings at 2315 and 2323 Penn Ave. in the heart of the Strip.
In an interview Wednesday, Mr. Troiani said he is considering a seven-story hotel, four to five floors of offices, an event center, a grocery, and integral parking on the 1 1/2-acre site he owns. It is now used for surface parking."

Full Article: http://www.post-gazette.com/business...s/201806210069

Originally Posted by eschaton

Another article about the planned "Papa J's" project in The Strip. Details:

1. The developer is unclear if they will be forced to abide by RIV or UI zoning, which means development is up in the air. They're currently going forward with UI zoning, but he sounds willing to develop under RIV if forced.

2. Asking for 109 feet/nine stories (60 feet currently allowed under UI). They will also apparently need a variance due to the size of the parking garage.

3. It's being designed by Rothschild Doyno. The firm has added some elements to help it comply with the spirit of RIV zoning (like stepping back the upper stories) even though they aren't building it to RIV specifications.

4. 186,000 square feet development in total.

5. Five-story parking garage with 224 spaces, plus 40 bike stalls. Three floors of office space above. With one floor of commercial on the ground story, that's nine in total. Presumably the hotel would be in the second building.

There have been surveyors on site the last few days. It'll be interesting to see what the end result is.

Originally Posted by Minivan Werner

I could see the folks in the Otto Milk building complaining that 9 story buildings in that spot would block their views of downtown.

I wonder if this is a case where they propose 9 stories, then downgrade it to 6 so the NIMBYs can cry victory.

Maybe, though there are only a handful of apartments that actually have a view of downtown as it is.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by pj3000

This is such total BS:

"Stadium authority officials tied the decision to grant the extension to the ongoing construction of the seven-story office building across the street from Lot 4."

“We want to get that SAP building open to lessen the potential problems with construction at the site,” he said.

Mary Conturo, SEA executive director, said it was prudent to get the SAP building construction “well underway” before any new endeavors are undertaken."

“From our standpoint it made sense to get the construction well underway and understand the impact of that to help define what the next development could be,” Ms. Conturo said.

“We have a project we’re all excited about. We’re working on the final details. Given the construction with SAP Ariba, it seems irresponsible to put another shovel in the ground until we have all the details and plans worked out,” he said.


So what is it? Is it that construction of the SAP building a block away could cause "potential problems" with construction? Or is it that they want the SAP building's impact to "help define" the new development, which will allow them to work out the "details and plans"?

Either way, these excuses are fucking pathetic.

So two construction projects a block away from each other cannot occur concurrently now? Just much too hard for Continental to do, huh? And just what the hell are they looking to find out about a medium-sized office building's "impact" in order to guide their "details and plans" for the surface parking lot development a block away?

Given it's looking likely a recession will start in 2019 or 2020, a few more delays and they'll have excuses galore.

[AaronPGH]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The AC Hotel next to the Convention Center (and at the start of the Strip) is expected to open July 26. As we discussed back when it was first announced, this is a really nice addition to Pittsburgh's list of brands:

https://www.nextpittsburgh.com/city-...gh-next-month/

This hotel is coming for me in multiple ways. 1) the name being so close to Ace when it's a corporate chain "boutique", 2) coming for my personal initials, 3) likely stopping us from doing any more rooftop parties at hot mass because of noise complaints.

Sucks when development reduces the vibrancy of a city.