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  #401  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2008, 7:27 PM
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source: http://enr.ecnext.com/coms2/article_nebuar081015

WTC Hub’s Complex Design Overhauled for Constructibility 10/15/2008 By Nadine M. Post The most visible way the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey is trying to get a grip on the 16-acre World Trade Center redevelopment is through the simplification of Santiago Calatrava’s WTC Transportation Hub. To to keep the hub on its revised-upward $3.2-billion budget while retaining the architect-engineer’s “iconic” look, the port authority has eliminated the flapping wings of the steel hub, which is shaped like a dove. In the hub’s underground hall to the west, the Vierendeel trusses to support the arched concrete ceiling are gone.
Port Authority of NY & NJ
World Trade Center work fraught with delays, overruns.
The original design, budgeted at $2.2 billion, had “construction and engineering complexity that increased schedule, cost and constructibility risk,” says the port authority in its 70-page report, “A Roadmap Forward,” released on Oct. 2. Delays would have snowballed onto other WTC projects, such as Memorial Plaza, says the report.
In the redesign by the hub’s local Downtown Design Partnership, bolted steel plate girders supported by columns replace Vierendeels. The conventional approach reduces steel tonnage by 15%, sim-plifies fabrication and erection and eliminates field welding, says the report. Conventional framing allows the existing PATH subway station roof to remain in place during construction and reduces PATH track outages.
For the steel dove, the new approach, which eliminates operable roof arches that would open and close the wings, also simplifies engineering and construction. In addition, wing length has been shortened on one side. The redesign cuts the number of structural connections between wing elements from five to one, says the port authority.
Means and methods have also been revamped. Originally, the hub was going to be built from the bottom up. Roof work was to have been staged and would have meant that the Memorial Plaza atop the buried hall, which is part of the National Sept. 11 Memorial, would not have been finished until 2013. To open it as planned by Sept. 11, 2011, the hub’s local construction manager-general contractor, Phoenix Constructors Joint Venture, will build the hub using a top-down approach.
“The deckover approach incorporated in the new design means that we will build the roof first, thus prioritizing the completion of Memorial Plaza,” says the port authority. The solution will cost $75 million extra because of lost productivity and the need for a temporary deck, says the report.
Instead of going out to bid for a CM-GC for remaining work, Phoenix will remain. “An open bid process would only increase project risk through the uncertainty of contracting resources in the marketplace at this time, and the challenge of coordinating many different contractors... new to the site and the project,” says the report.
+ click to enlarge
Port Authority of NY & NJ
But the port authority is revamping its relationship with Phoenix, a joint venture of Slattery Skanska, Fluor Corp., Granite Construction Northeast and Bovis Lend Lease. Under the new plan, Phoenix, which was working on a time and materials basis, will commit to working on a lump-sum, fixed-price basis. “This will result in cost certainty... better budget control and will also create improved incentives for the Phoenix team to perform efficiently,” says the report, available on www.wtcprogress.com. “We now have a single point of accountability.” The port authority hopes to open the hub in mid-2014 instead of late 2009.
     
     
  #402  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2008, 7:43 PM
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^ Post your hub updates here.
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  #403  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2008, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
It's probably pointless to discuss this with you, but you'd have to be foolish to think New York won't need new office space after the next few years. As you've correctly pointed out, most of the office space under construction now is at the WTC site, and that's only replacing what was there before. Do the math. As far as what Brookfield proposes for its site, they have to get the platform built first, but they aren't going to start building any towers without a tenant - crisis or not. On another note, Brookfield's towers weren't being designed or marketed specifically for financial tenants, and at last check there were no rumored financial companies looking for space there. As far as no major projects in the next 5-10 years, I won't even waste time with that. But in short, what you fail to realize is that it's because they aren't building new office space now that it will come to a head in a few years. There will always, always be a demand for new office space in New York, a city where something built 10-15 years ago can be considered obsolete.

You obviously have no idea about the market, you just stated that because the financial sector is getting nailed the Hudson Yards project will be a go ahead. If thats your philosophy than why is the Chicago Spire an all residential tower on hold or scrapers in London, because the banks around the globe are failing, meaning no $ to borrow, jobs lost, companies going out-of-business etc etc.

...but thanks for agreeing with me about how no major commercial skyscraper will be seen in the Manhattan skyline in the next 5-10 years. The WTC is good enough for replacing what NYC already had I guess.
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  #404  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2008, 3:34 AM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
We may see a return to developments like that, which will require a lot of demolition.
I'd love to get your opinion on whether or not you would favor that.

I for one fully understand the need for new commercial space and potential developments such as that, but even I would be discouraged to see some of the early 20th Century gems (that make up a lot of Lower Manhattan's character) meet the fate of the wrecking ball. And I'm not talking about 70 Pine and 40 Wall (because that is out of the question),but buildings that we typically pass by and take for granted.

Frankly I think an expansion towards the direction of 56 Leanord would be a solution (although there will be zoning issues), as well as an expansion of Battery Park City. The way I see it, after the Trade Center, Lower Manhattan is virtually maxed out.
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  #405  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2008, 6:03 AM
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Originally Posted by HyperPower View Post
You obviously have no idea about the market, you just stated that because the financial sector is getting nailed the Hudson Yards project will be a go ahead.
I think I've already explained it enough that you should be clear on it by now, but seeing that you obviously can't or won't grasp it, this thread won't be hijacked with your Hudson Yards concerns, whatever they are. Send me a pm if you have further questions.
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  #406  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2008, 6:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Dac150 View Post
I'd love to get your opinion on whether or not you would favor that.

I for one fully understand the need for new commercial space and potential developments such as that,
but even I would be discouraged to see some of the early 20th Century gems (that make up a lot of
Lower Manhattan's character) meet the fate of the wrecking ball.

The way I see it, after the Trade Center, Lower Manhattan is virtually maxed out.
And that's exactly the way it is, although there is about 1 msf at the Fulton St transit center site,
and 800,000 sf left over at 55 Water St, New York's current largest skyscraper. But first look at the photos below:


From nosha


From Dan_DC



In the first photo, you can see where the WTC is rising, the Goldman Sachs, and what will be
the Park Place and Beekman towers. Clearly, Downtown's tallest towers are on a move northward,
but this is limited by the civic center and Tribeca to the north. In that second photo you get
an idea of just how tightly packed the financial center is. There has been and will be a lot of
residential conversions from some of the older office towers, and new residential towers
find a way to squeeze in. But office towers are a different matter. The City has attempted to shift
some commercial development to Downtown Brooklyn, and there's always Jersey City, but those
are considered separate commercial districts:

From jesse flu


So, unfortunately, if Downtown's commercial district is to expand, there will have to be demolition,
and not just a little of it. I think the commercial core should be allowed to expand north, west of Broadway
and south of Chambers. But if you think that's controversial, I think it should also expand north of Fulton Street,
east of the Beekman hospital and Pace (the Southbridge apartment towers would have to be destroyed,
don't shoot the messenger - but the South Street historic district could be preserved). More landfill would lead
to the mother of all NIMBY battles, moreso than any of the other options. If only the Battery Park City planning
had included more commercial options. But post WTC construction, the options above seem like the only way to go.

It would be very similar to what happend when the original WTC was constructed 40 years ago.
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  #407  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2008, 2:45 PM
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I agree with your positioning on the Southbridge apartments, but you would have to imagine the amount of opposition that would stir up. Anyway you cut it though there will be some shape or form of opposition regardless of what options are chosen.

Expanding in the direction of the Civic Center is a good point, but even that poses its own problems. I doubt they would ever touch the Seaport, but the area surrounding Pace and Beekman is a hot-bed for new development.

I agree with you on the Battery Park City point, the WFC (as much as I love that complex) shouldn't have been the only show in town for BPC.

And something I've also thought to be troubling is Water Street. Many of those short boxes on Water Street could have been easily made 10 floors or more taller. More wasted potential.

The way I see it Lower Manhattan's commercial upcomings at this point are:
-The World Trade Center (2,3, possibly 5)
-Goldman Sachs
-Goldman Sachs current HQ (eventually when vacated)
-The Verizon building (when renovated)
-Fulton Transit Hub (office potential)
-& other vacancies (55 Water)
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  #408  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2008, 3:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dac150 View Post
I agree with your positioning on the Southbridge apartments, but you would have to imagine the amount of opposition that would stir up. Anyway you cut it though there will be some shape or form of opposition regardless of what options are chosen.
In New York, that's an understatement. But tough decisions will have to be made, and like it or not, the city will need someone like a Robert Moses who can cut through it.


Quote:
And something I've also thought to be troubling is Water Street. Many of those short boxes on Water Street could have been easily made 10 floors or more taller. More wasted potential.
Probably a result of city zoning.


Quote:
The way I see it Lower Manhattan's commercial upcomings at this point are:
-The World Trade Center (2,3, possibly 5)
-Goldman Sachs
-Goldman Sachs current HQ (eventually when vacated)
-The Verizon building (when renovated)
-Fulton Transit Hub (office potential)
-& other vacancies (55 Water)
Even though Chase now has the Bear Stearns tower, it is still considering building tower 5. It's holding a precious card in the Downtown scheme right now. The Verizon Building will be a nice addition, though it would probably attract tenants not neccessarily of the "downtown" crowd. The Fulton St space was last proposed as a residential, but I don't think any one person controls all of the development rights. There was a plan at 55 Water Street to build out the remaining 800,000 st ft, but that plan was scrapped in favor of rebuilding the elevated plaza. Even some of the vacant space coming on the market now will be considered obsolete in a decade. There has to be new construction, one way or the other.
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  #409  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2008, 3:32 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Even some of the vacant space coming on the market now will be considered obsolete in a decade. There has to be new construction, one way or the other.
Exactly. I like to use the current GS HQ as an example. The building will be open for lease within the next year or two, but despite the fact of demand the building needs a face-lift in order to attract the proper crowd. Goldman has even said that they quote 'hate' the building, to the point where they're investing in a new property.

If new construction is limited, then renovations need to become the norm. Not saying I'd favor reclads, but interior renovations and re-configurations should be viewd as an option. Example the Verizon Building.
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  #410  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2008, 2:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Dac150 View Post
If new construction is limited, then renovations need to become the norm. Not saying I'd favor reclads, but interior renovations and re-configurations should be viewd as an option. Example the Verizon Building.
All of that will take place, but new construction is always tops in New York.
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  #411  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2008, 2:09 PM
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From stilsjp

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  #412  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2008, 11:23 PM
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Beaver House is hideous. I just had to say it.
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  #413  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 7:32 AM
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Model making with raddi inc













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  #414  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 6:43 PM
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  #415  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2008, 9:19 PM
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I need those models here at home
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  #416  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2008, 4:29 AM
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I need those models here at home
So do I, exactly at that size. Hopefully when the towers are completed, there'll be replicas for sale. You can't go anywhere without seeing Empire State replicas, hope these are plentiful as well.
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  #417  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2008, 12:09 AM
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I wonder if they still make/sell alot of old WTC replicas? I'm assuming you've lived in NY since they were standing, NYGuy. (You've been a member that long as well, did they have a thread on here for them when you joined?) Have you noticed and increase or decrease in WTC memorabilia?

I may have just accidentally interviewed you, but hopefully it's all good.=P
     
     
  #418  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2008, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Kamatzu View Post
I wonder if they still make/sell alot of old WTC replicas? I'm assuming you've lived in NY since they were standing, NYGuy. (You've been a member that long as well, did they have a thread on here for them when you joined?) Have you noticed and increase or decrease in WTC memorabilia?
I don't know about a thread on replicas, but there have always been WTC threads. As far as memorabalia, overall there's been more post 9/11. Personally, I enjoy my large "pop-up" WTC poster, it's more detailed than any WTC photos I've seen.
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  #419  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2008, 10:35 PM
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This tower could be on par with the ESB if they build it correctly with the proper materials to make it spectacular. I'm starting to accept the fact that this bad boy will be in the skyline in a few years. It's not just some grand vision or fantasy anymore it's becoming reality.
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  #420  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2008, 6:28 AM
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The fact is, all of these towers will be built, with their below grade work having begun earlier this year, and excavation nearly complete.
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