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  #1201  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2010, 9:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Acer1 View Post
This is going to be the same height as the proposal, correct? It's not going to be smaller than tower 4?
If constructed and completed, yes. At 1,240ft it will be the third tallest building in New York, surpassed only by the 1,776 ft 1 WTC and the Empire State Building (1,250ft).

I just would like to know what "construction start immediately" means. When will I see a GREEN line on the bottom of the drawing in the diagrams??
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  #1202  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2010, 8:02 AM
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I just would like to know what "construction start immediately" means. When will I see a GREEN line on the bottom of the drawing in the diagrams??
I would imagine blasting bedrock to level grade for the whole pit since I can't imagine too much work on the hub site until 2&3 are leveled out properly. Probably early next year we'll see the cores set in place. For now, the men play in the mud.
     
     
  #1203  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2010, 8:07 AM
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What upsets me most about this agreement is that there was so much talk on these forums about how P.A. absolutely wanted WTC2 built and could care less about WTC3. Then the opposite happens. So I'm guessing P.A. never really cared about WTC2 being built at all?
     
     
  #1204  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2010, 1:54 PM
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Originally Posted by OneWorldTradeCenter View Post
One simple question: If they can´t lease the office space. Why is there no residential space or even a hotel. That could solve the problem.
That won't solve the problem. Residential towers can go anywhere. They are trying to replace the millions of square feet of office space that Downtown lost on 9/11, back when it was the third largest business district in the country. There's not the kind of space in lower Manhattan that they can just say "oh well, we tried, on to residential".



Quote:
Originally Posted by Acer1 View Post
What upsets me most about this agreement is that there was so much talk on these forums about how P.A. absolutely wanted WTC2 built and could care less about WTC3. Then the opposite happens. So I'm guessing P.A. never really cared about WTC2 being built at all?
It's simply cheaper to build. Silverstein was initially starting work on this tower anyway, before his earlier dispute with the PA over there definition of the sites being complete. Silverstein then put this tower on hold as they went into arbitration. For whatever reason, I don't remember, Silverstein then went back to Tower 2. It was only a month or two ago that Silverstein put Tower 3 in back the forefront.
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  #1205  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2010, 2:14 PM
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This article from just a couple of years ago reminds us of just how fast things can change...

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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/23/ny...on&oref=slogin

Merrill Lynch Weighs Putting Headquarters at Ground Zero

By CHARLES V. BAGLI
May 23, 2008


Merrill Lynch is negotiating a deal to build a 70-story headquarters at ground zero, a plan that would make it the first financial firm to return to the 16-acre former World Trade Center site since the terrorist attack destroyed the complex in 2001.

A major step toward a deal was taken Thursday, when the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey voted to change the construction schedule for the towers at ground zero, enabling the developer Larry A. Silverstein to continue talks with Merrill Lynch about the building.

Officials of the Port Authority, the state and the city are optimistic about a Merrill deal, which the officials and the developer hope will spark other corporations’ interest in moving to the site. But the company is also looking for a sizable government subsidy, officials say, which could prompt some stormy bargaining sessions.

Another investment bank, Goldman Sachs, sidestepped the 16-acre trade center parcel, deciding instead to build a $2.4 billion, 43-story headquarters across West Street at Battery Park City.

Merrill is considering a move to what would be a 3 million square foot skyscraper at the northwest corner of Cortlandt and Church Streets. A tower that size would allow Merrill to consolidate 10,000 employees now at 2 and 4 World Financial Center and 222 Broadway. Merrill would prefer to own the building, rather than lease it from Mr. Silverstein, who would nevertheless build it.

Merrill Lynch’s lease at the World Financial Center, across West Street from ground zero, expires in 2013.

“We needed to move quickly to ensure that Merrill Lynch’s plans downtown can in fact be realized,” said Chris Ward, executive director of the Port Authority, which owns the land. “We’re working hand-in-glove with Larry Silverstein to see if that is possible.”

On Thursday, the Port Authority voted to extend the construction deadlines for two towers at ground zero, including Tower 3, the one under consideration by Merrill.

Mr. Silverstein’s development agreement with the Port Authority required him to complete the two office towers along Church Street by the end of 2011.

The Port Authority moved the completion date for Tower 3 to June 2012, to allow him time to redesign the foundation for the proposed Merrill tower, which is larger than the building originally planned there.

The deadline for Tower 4 was extended to April 2012.

“The six-month schedule adjustment approved today by the Port Authority clearly makes sense," said Janno Lieber, who oversees the trade center project for Silverstein Properties. "Merrill Lynch is downtown’s largest private-sector employer. This extension gives us the time to design and construct a modified building foundation that could accommodate Merrill’s specialized requirements."

Last fall, Merrill was in serious negotiations to move its headquarters from its longtime downtown home to the Penn Station area, where Vornado Realty Trust offered to build a skyscraper on the site of the Pennsylvania Hotel.

But the company abandoned the move after suffering billions of dollars of losses in the subprime mortgage crisis. It appeared that Merrill’s fallback plan was to remain as a tenant at the World Financial Center.

But in recent weeks, Merrill began talking in earnest with Mr. Silverstein about a new tower.
There are a number of tax breaks and other incentives available at the trade center site. But Merrill wants a more generous deal, similar to the one given to Goldman Sachs — a deal that state and city officials have vowed never to repeat.

Goldman got $1.65 billion in tax-free Liberty Bonds, which will save the bank at least $9 million a year in interest, as well as $115 million in tax breaks and cash grants, leading critics to describe it as an egregious example of corporate welfare.

JPMorgan Chase got a smaller package last summer, when it signed an agreement to move its investment banking operations from Midtown to a site near ground zero, where it planned to build a 42-story, 1.3 million-square-foot tower at the corner of Greenwich and Cedar Streets. However, it recently bought Bear Stearns and Bear Stearns’s Midtown headquarters, where it now plans to put the investment bank. JPMorgan insists that it still wants the downtown development site, where the former Deutsche Bank building is being demolished.
_____________________________________________


http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...TE02/303289968

Trade Center towers rise, but will they rent?
Millions of square feet will be added to market facing likely office glut



By Theresa Agovino
March 28, 2010

Quote:
After more than a year of bitter feuding, financial horse trading and political wrangling, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and developer Larry Silverstein last week reached a tentative agreement that paves the way for three office towers to rise at Ground Zero by 2015.

A 2.8 million-square-foot tower owned by the Port Authority, 1 World Trade Center, is slated for a 2013 debut. Tower 4, a 2.3 million-square-foot building owned by Silverstein Properties, is also expected to be completed that year. Each has a number of leases and commitments already in place—largely with various government agencies—so the net amount of vacant space still in search of tenants will be 2.5 million square feet. That amounts to a mere 2% of the total amount of office space downtown.

In addition to those buildings, there is a possibility that Silverstein Properties could build what's known as Tower 3 by 2015. That would throw another 2.5 million square feet on the market—doubling the total of new space in search of tenants.

“The new buildings will have a dampening effect on rents downtown, and it will take time for them to rebound,” says David Arena, vice chairman of the tristate region at Grubb & Ellis.

The big question for Silverstein Properties and for the Port Authority will be whether rents in their new WTC buildings will suffer along with the rest of the market. Rents at the two buildings under construction at the World Trade Center have ranged from $57 to $80 a square foot. New, state-of-the-art properties are in short supply in Manhattan, so many believe the new buildings will appeal to tenants and attract higher rents.

“Many people talk about real estate like it is generic and all the same,” says Janno Lieber, president of Silverstein's World Trade Center Properties. “It's not. These are new, beautiful, green buildings that are going to be in front of a park and memorial.”

In the coming months, Mr. Lieber needs to win others over to that sanguine view. As part of the deal that was reached with the Port Authority, the state and the city, Silverstein must pre-lease 400,000 square feet at no less than $60 a square foot in order to secure their crucial financial backing to complete the company's second tower. It has roughly two and a half years to complete the task.

“The rent is perfectly acceptable for what will be new, state-of-the-art space, says Mark Weiss, a managing director at Newmark Knight Frank. “So much of the city's space is obsolete.”

For John Wheeler, a managing director at Jones Lang LaSalle, the transportation projects are just two of several that he would like to see near completion. He wants to make sure the current momentum doesn't hit a wall.

“This has been a long time in coming,” says Mr. Wheeler. “I would do a pre-lease, but I want to see some more milestones pass—I want to see more action.”
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  #1206  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2010, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by New Skyline View Post
At last: Great news! Let's drink to that

But do they mean it could take two and a half years to erect the entire east side podium? (Tower Three aswell as Tower Two podium?)

#The entire site will be built to street level; - that could take 2,5 years??

^^^^^
# = Posted by NY Guy
Heck, 5 years from now we may finally be in economic recovery mode and hearing all about the shortage of office space in Manhattan, yet again.
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  #1207  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2010, 1:41 PM
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Heck, 5 years from now we may finally be in economic recovery mode and hearing all about the shortage of office space in Manhattan, yet again.
It's more likely than not that the shortage of new space will lead to a rush of new and old proposals being built.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion...CLWGiJ5hMVVeSK

A dubious WTC deal

By STEVE CUOZZO
March 29, 2010

Quote:
...Opponents of new office development hissed that the tentative agreement was an unconscionable giveway to Silverstein. It was more accurately an emasculation of his agenda, putting the largest of his towers, 2 WTC, on indefinite hold and gutting any sense of urgency about putting up 3 WTC.

The PA did agree to provide backstop financing (essentially a loan guarantee) for the debt Silverstein will incur to put up 4 WTC, a $1.8 billion project that now looks solid. But it's hardly enough.

The sizes of 4 WTC and of the PA's taller 1 WTC, which is now rising, sound impressive: a total of 4.7 million square feet. But that's still less than half of what was lost on 9/11 -- and even that's seriously misleading.

Of 1 WTC's 2.6 million feet, half are preleased to federal and state agencies; of 4 WTC's 2.1 million feet, the city and the PA itself are committed to 1.3 million. That leaves a mere 1.9 million feet in the two towers for private-sector tenants.

In other words, most floors in two of the world's best new office towers will be used by government agencies -- rather than by the financial, media and law firms that have the strongest need for them (and can pay market-rate rents, in contrast to subsidized rates for the public users).

In today's troubled market, putting 2 WTC on hold for a while seems reasonable. But no such argument can be made on 3 WTC, designed by architect Richard Rogers, which would provide 2.8 million precious square feet of 21st century floor space.
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  #1208  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2010, 1:13 PM
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http://www.nypost.com/p/news/busines...cqPnNIvSODxgLJ

WTC has a 6-year glitch

By STEVE CUOZZO
March 30, 2010

Quote:
Despite a tentative deal between Larry Silverstein and the Port Authority providing public financing help for Silverstein's 3 World Trade Center, the 2.5 million square-foot Ground Zero office tower might not start construction until 2020, we've learned.

The Richard Rogers-designed skyscraper will eventually rise atop a "retail podium" that Silverstein is to start building "immediately."

It turns out Silverstein would have until six years after the PA completes its World Trade Center Transportation Hub to meet the milestones necessary to trigger the aid infusion for 3 WTC.

Since the Hub -- better known as the $3.4 billion, Santiago Calatrava-designed PATH terminal -- won't be finished until 2014 at the earliest, the developer has until 2020 to first raise $300 million in private equity for 3 WTC and also pre-lease 400,000 square feet.

The wiggle-time is the most discouraging fact to emerge since the announcement of the "agreement" that won't be finalized for four months.

* The retail podium is a Trojan Horse for what the PA really wants -- an underground network of steel and mechanical systems in 3 WTC's foundation, which the agency needs to support the PATH terminal next door

* The podium will have 50,000-100,000 square feet of stores -- a far cry from proposals by the PA's retail partner, Westfield, to build retail "stumps" of a half-million square feet each.

* Leading retail brokers are dubious that high-end stores will want any part of it.

The 6-story podium would not require redesigning the skyscraper above it. The office lobby will be on Greenwich Street with stores wrapping it on the other sides. The PA will be responsible for store leasing -- but will tenants want them?
______________________________

Steve Cuozzo usually makes good arguments concerning the WTC, but really, I don't see what the problem is here. So Silverstein has until "2020" to get the 400,000 sf lease stipulation, and not 2012 or 2013. That just means the tower won't die in a couple of years if Silverstein is unable to lease that minimal amount. And frankly, if he can't lease that amount before 2020, the space shouldn't be built.

As far as the retail base goes, they have to proceed as if the tower is actually going to be built, so building the "half million square foot retail podiums" now wouldn't make sense at all. The goal is not to build a large, above ground mall here, but an office tower with retail at the base.
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  #1209  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2010, 2:25 PM
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lol. Do they really think he'll wait that long, after all this mess?
     
     
  #1210  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2010, 4:34 PM
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It´s really a desater what´s going on here with those two towers (2+3WTC).
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  #1211  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2010, 8:19 PM
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This truly is a national disgrace. As long as One World Trade and Four World Trade are on there way up who cares about the other Towers right now. Sure I looked forward to seeing all of them built but even if they start construction on Tower 3 it will only be on the Substructure and Podium for now and Tower 2 is on hold for God knows how long. I just hope in a few years just maybe Silverstein can get his own financing and tell the Port Authority to drop dead.
     
     
  #1212  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2010, 8:33 PM
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2020?

I smell bullshit.
     
     
  #1213  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2010, 9:13 PM
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something better happen soon because silverstein is 78 years old and I really hope he gets a chance to see these towers complete
     
     
  #1214  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2010, 1:38 AM
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Originally Posted by NewYorker2009 View Post
This truly is a national disgrace. As long as One World Trade and Four World Trade are on there way up who cares about the other Towers right now.
What you fail to realize is that it's not all about restoring the skyline, it's about bringing Downtown fully back from the attacks of 9/11. Eleven million square feet of office space, plus the Deutche Bank building was lost on that single day. We don't allow terrorist to come in and dictate city planning. It is by no means an easy task to reproduce that much office space, but hard doesn't mean impossible, and they shouldn't just have a defeatist attitude and give up because that's the easy thing to do. The long term goal remains to get that office space back.


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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
2020?
I smell bullshit.
I don't understand what you people want. Did you want the tower canceled if for some reason Silverstein was unable to get that minimal lease requirement in 2 and a half years? All this means is that Silverstein has an extended grace period for the tower. How this can be construed as bad is a mystery to me. But I may be thinking to logically.
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  #1215  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2010, 4:33 PM
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[QUOTE=NYguy;4773666]What you fail to realize is that it's not all about restoring the skyline, it's about bringing Downtown fully back from the attacks of 9/11. Eleven million square feet of office space, plus the Deutche Bank building was lost on that single day. We don't allow terrorist to come in and dictate city planning. It is by no means an easy task to reproduce that much office space, but hard doesn't mean impossible, and they shouldn't just have a defeatist attitude and give up because that's the easy thing to do. The long term goal remains to get that office space back.

I agree with you 110%, but all I'm saying is that we shouldn't get too excited about Towers 2 & 3 right now given the circumstances. It isn't easy to reproduce all that space but I think we're taking the blame away from the Port Authority here. They should have prepared the T2, T3, and T4 Sites ahead of time instead of taking over 2 years, which was ridiculous. I'm just relieved that the Memorial, One, & Four World Trade are underway. In the meantime we'll see what happens as time unfolds.
     
     
  #1216  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2010, 2:25 AM
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Originally Posted by NewYorker2009 View Post
I agree with you 110%, but all I'm saying is that we shouldn't get too excited about Towers 2 & 3 right now given the circumstances. I'm just relieved that the Memorial, One, & Four World Trade are underway. In the meantime we'll see what happens as time unfolds.
I'm excited because the long, hard process of getting the foundtions built, which alone will take about 2 years will get underway. It's what we have been waiting to see for years. The longer the wait to get that process underway, the farther away we are from seeing the entire site rebuilt. This basic agreement between Silverstein Properties and the PA/City/State is no small thing, especially taking into account everything that has happend prior it.

I think people misunderstood the way the info was released. It was interpreted as Silverstein being given 2 and a half years to get the lease requirement for the towers, which is only half right. He was given up to 6 years after the completion of the PATH terminal (which at this point would make it 2020). That 2 and a half year timeframe is when construction on the tower would have to stop if Silverstein didn't have that amount, basically the time it would take to complete the base of the tower. (He has all of 2011 and 2012 to lease 400,000 sf for the tower).

Rather than have the tower canceled outright, he has a grace period of the rest of the decade to meet those requirments for the additional public financing. Beyond that, the deal to back him up would be off the table.

As far as tower 2 goes, it's basically in the same position now as all of the other, large proposed office towers in Midtown (Hotel Penn, MSG, Manhattan West, Hudson Yards, etc.) in that it would take a tenant to get financing for construction. The advantage tower 2 has over those towers however, is that its foundation and lower levels would be completed now while no work is ongoing for those others. It's entirely possible that Silverstein could land a tenant for tower 2 in the next couple of years and that one could continue rising. Not certain, but possible.

In the meantime, lets start where we can, and get these towers into the ground.
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  #1217  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2010, 5:16 AM
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In the meantime, lets start where we can, and get these towers into the ground.
Hear hear! Having the foundation and work completed up to grade is a huge advantage to the future prospects of tower 2. And I have very little doubt that Silverstien will find his needed commitments for tower 3 long before the deadline even approaches.

I continue to be amazed at the resilience NYC has in the face of this downturn. Construction has slowed, but there's still a lot more going on there than anywhere else in the US. Other world class cities have all but ground to a halt. If this level of activity can persist in the worst of our downturn, then the big apple will shine when times improve.
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  #1218  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2010, 10:26 AM
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More good news, I don't think we have to worry about design changes, at least for now...

http://www.archpaper.com/e-board_rev.asp?News_ID=4371
Heal the World Trade Center



Quote:
...Janno Lieber, President of World Trade Center Properties for Silverstein, said he expects the private sector will respond favorably to this support, and the building will be completed by 2015, two years after Fumihiko Maki’s Tower 4 and SOM's Tower 1 (aka the Freedom Tower). “We’re going to let the marketplace decide that, but I think there is demand,” he said.

Should the project not find funding, Silverstein will still be required to complete the tower up through the first few floors, which will house much of the utilities for the PATH station. The timeline for Tower 2 has been pushed back indefinitely, though the developer is now required to at least complete it up through the ground level.

One area that was not on the table during the cost-cutting phases was the architecture. Asked whether Silverstein had considered pairing back the designs to save money, as has happened on projects like the Atlantic Yards arena, Leiber said no. “The Richard Rogers tower for Tower 3 is the building we’re going to execute,” Lieber said. “And when we get to Tower 2, it is our expectation that that will still be the work of Norman Foster.”
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  #1219  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2010, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
I'm excited because the long, hard process of getting the foundtions built, which alone will take about 2 years will get underway. It's what we have been waiting to see for years. The longer the wait to get that process underway, the farther away we are from seeing the entire site rebuilt. This basic agreement between Silverstein Properties and the PA/City/State is no small thing, especially taking into account everything that has happend prior it.

I think people misunderstood the way the info was released. It was interpreted as Silverstein being given 2 and a half years to get the lease requirement for the towers, which is only half right. He was given up to 6 years after the completion of the PATH terminal (which at this point would make it 2020). That 2 and a half year timeframe is when construction on the tower would have to stop if Silverstein didn't have that amount, basically the time it would take to complete the base of the tower. (He has all of 2011 and 2012 to lease 400,000 sf for the tower).

Rather than have the tower canceled outright, he has a grace period of the rest of the decade to meet those requirments for the additional public financing. Beyond that, the deal to back him up would be off the table.

As far as tower 2 goes, it's basically in the same position now as all of the other, large proposed office towers in Midtown (Hotel Penn, MSG, Manhattan West, Hudson Yards, etc.) in that it would take a tenant to get financing for construction. The advantage tower 2 has over those towers however, is that its foundation and lower levels would be completed now while no work is ongoing for those others. It's entirely possible that Silverstein could land a tenant for tower 2 in the next couple of years and that one could continue rising. Not certain, but possible.

In the meantime, lets start where we can, and get these towers into the ground.
Yes it has been a long, frustrating wait, but you know what. In the end it will all work out. It may take time but eventually all issues will get solved between Silverstein and the Port Authority. Just look at all the problems the original WTC faced before it was built, where it would go, how would they reach bedrock with the Hudson River beside it. They may not be the same kind of problems as we are facing now but what I’m saying is all great projects are bound to have problems. The important thing is to solve those problems. I don’t think it will take Silverstein until 2020 to find a tenant to lease 400,000 sq. feet of office space (not a lot of office space) in Tower 3, it will be a lot sooner than that. Silverstein isn’t getting any younger so he knows he has to get things done while he still can. Like you said, he has all of 2011 and 2012 to find a tenant and he surely will land one so once that happens then construction wouldn’t have to stop.

True, the foundation for Tower 2 has to be built because the Transit Hub needs to be built up to grade and it needs the substructure of Towers 2 & 3 to get there. All those proposed Midtown projects like Hotel Penn, MSG Towers, Manhattan West, Hudson Yards, are quite appealing but Towers 2 & 3 of the WTC have a much stronger chance at actually getting built in this decade than those do.
     
     
  #1220  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2010, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by nycdagreatest View Post
something better happen soon because silverstein is 78 years old and I really hope he gets a chance to see these towers complete
Hell, I'm 46 and I'm hoping that I get to see these towers completed.

Meanwhile, during all this agonized handwringing over putting up two lousy towers in Manhattan of all places, how many supertalls have begun construction in China?
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