SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA: Transit/Transportation News

[northbay]

Forget the Richmond Bridge. Lets just put SMART on the GOLDEN GATE!

Opening 2100!

[waltlantz]

Originally Posted by Gordo

I doubt much, if at all. They serve separate sides of the Bay so all of the intermediate stations will serve different riders, and anyone going from SF to SJ or SJ to SF would be crazy to take BART, as the end-to-end time will be much longer than Caltrain.

BART to SJ is really more for folks from the East Bay getting to/from SJ and vice versa, where Caltrain is really more for peninsula folks getting to SF or SJ (or places in between) AND for folks going from endpoint to endpoint.

I looked on some maps. It seems that CalTrain is more on the Eastern Side and BART is on the west, correct?

Still if so, would it not be better for Frisco people to take BART to get to Silicon Valley because coming from the East Bay seems like it would be SO much longer.

(You must excuse me, not a bay area person).

[Gordo]

Originally Posted by waltlantz

I looked on some maps. It seems that CalTrain is more on the Eastern Side and BART is on the west, correct?

Still if so, would it not be better for Frisco people to take BART to get to Silicon Valley because coming from the East Bay seems like it would be SO much longer.

(You must excuse me, not a bay area person).

BART is in the East Bay, Caltrain is on the peninsula (the west). You're correct that going through the East Bay will take longer to get to Silicon Valley, hence folks will continue to take Caltrain from SF to SJ.

[tech12]

I'm wondering if BART from SF to SJ would really be slower than CalTrain? Non-express Caltrain trains take an hour and a half to get there, and I can't imagine BART would take longer. Express CalTrain trains from SF to SJ can make it in about an hour though, and I'm not sure if BART could beat that time. BART also has the advantage of having more centrally located/easily reached stations in SF, compared to CalTrain, and I'd guess it might end up being slightly cheaper than current Caltrain prices from SF to SJ as well (only by a dollar or two).

So my guess is that Cal Train would still be heavily used for travel from SF to SJ, but that many people would take BART to SJ as well...I know i would prefer it, seeing as I live much closer to a BART station than a Caltrain station. If you're further down the peninsula though, or live near the Caltrain Stations in SF (which are all along the eastern edge of the city, and aside from 4th and King station, far from any BART stations), it would probably make more sense to take it to SJ instead of BART, especially if you get an express train.

[fflint]

Caltrain operates local trains, limited-stop trains, and Baby Bullets, while all BART trains are and will remain local. If one wanted to travel between San Francisco and San Jose and the choice were only between a Caltrian local and BART, then the better choice would likely revolve around the exact destinations, proximity to one station or another, etc.

However, that is not currently--nor will it likely in the future be--the dilemma normal commuters face when traveling the full distance between San Francisco and San Jose. That long-haul trip is the very reason we now enjoy limited and "Baby Bullet" Caltrain service along the Penninsula. Rolling at 79 mph and making only four or five stops during the entire 57 minute trip, Caltrain Baby Bullets will almost certainly remain faster than BART, which operates at the same maximum speed but which will have three times more stops, for the full end-to-end trip between San Francisco and San Jose.

As for what choice is best for any given individual, again it is obvious there are other factors affecting the door-to-door travel time and which system would be better.

[waltlantz]

Originally Posted by Gordo

BART is in the East Bay, Caltrain is on the peninsula (the west). You're correct that going through the East Bay will take longer to get to Silicon Valley, hence folks will continue to take Caltrain from SF to SJ.

Ok, I had misinterpreted what was meant by side of the bay (Wasn't looking at BART Maps and noticing they primarily serve THE EAST BAY).

Still noticing what flint says, I still am a little confused as to the need for BART down there if the Cal Train already serves the area.

[tech12]

Originally Posted by waltlantz

Still noticing what flint says, I still am a little confused as to the need for BART down there if the Cal Train already serves the area.

Because It would it make it easier to get to SJ for east bay residents, who have no public transit connections to SJ aside from buses. It would also be a nice alternative for some people in SF over CalTrain.

[fflint]

Originally Posted by waltlantz

Ok, I had misinterpreted what was meant by side of the bay (Wasn't looking at BART Maps and noticing they primarily serve THE EAST BAY).

Still noticing what flint says, I still am a little confused as to the need for BART down there if the Cal Train already serves the area.

Because people from the vast East Bay who want to travel southeast won't take BART north and west, then transfer to Muni, then take Caltrain south, then transfer to VTA in order to travel east. Look, it's cool you're interested in Bay Area transportation but you don't seem to have even a rudimentary grasp of local geography.

[fflint]

Caltrain Completes Major Renovations At Two South Bay Stations
February 29, 2012
KCBS

Caltrain’s ongoing efforts to modernize its system took another step forward on Wednesday with the completion of major renovations at....the Santa Clara and San Jose Diridon stations.

“Currently (at the Santa Clara Station), passengers need to walk over the tracks, which means that you can’t have two trains coning in at the same time,” said Caltrain Board Vice Chair Ken Yeager. “So we’ve constructed a tunnel so you can walk under the tracks to get to the train. At Diridon, we’ve added two new platforms, which means four new tracks. That will allow all the trains that come in to Diridon to move more quickly and safely.”

San Jose Mayor Chuck Reed said that these improvements are just the beginning.

“Ultimately, all of the rail lines in the Bay Area are going to connect to the Diridon Station,” said Reed. “We’re optimistic that we’ll have a BART station here as well as a high-speed rail station...."
...

[pesto]

Originally Posted by fflint

Caltrain Completes Major Renovations At Two South Bay Stations
February 29, 2012
KCBS

Caltrain’s ongoing efforts to modernize its system took another step forward on Wednesday with the completion of major renovations at....the Santa Clara and San Jose Diridon stations.

“Currently (at the Santa Clara Station), passengers need to walk over the tracks, which means that you can’t have two trains coning in at the same time,” said Caltrain Board Vice Chair Ken Yeager. “So we’ve constructed a tunnel so you can walk under the tracks to get to the train. At Diridon, we’ve added two new platforms, which means four new tracks. That will allow all the trains that come in to Diridon to move more quickly and safely.”

San Jose Mayor Chuck Reed said that these improvements are just the beginning.

“Ultimately, all of the rail lines in the Bay Area are going to connect to the Diridon Station,” said Reed. “We’re optimistic that we’ll have a BART station here as well as a high-speed rail station...."
...

I assume he means BART down from Fremont.

If HSR comes through Altamont, there won't be that many trains into Diridon. But if it comes through Pacheco, it will be a major transfer point (BART, Caltrain, VTA, bus).

[fflint]

The Mayor of San Jose is referring to how Diridon Station will in the future feature six different passenger rail services--CAHSR and BART in addition to the current Capitol Corridor, Caltrain, VTA and ACE railroads.

[northbay]

Here is the latest rendering of the SMART train interior:


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...e=1&permPage=1

[electricron]

I would wish the seat backs had drop down trays, like airline seats, but apparently they won't have them....

[ElDuderino]

Originally Posted by northbay

Here is the latest rendering of the SMART train interior:


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...e=1&permPage=1

Wow very cool. Looks comfortable. I was going to say they should serve wine to the passengers, but a bunch of red stains on those light seats might not be so attractive.

[fflint]

^Caltrain passengers are allowed to bring and consume their own liquor on board, but then, Caltrain traditionally has brown leather seats...

[northbay]

3 North Bay counties have the highest costs for housing/transportation in the Bay Area! Another reason why we need SMART!

Study: Marin has highest costs for housing and transportation in the Bay Area

By Mark Prado
Marin Independent Journal
Posted: 02/29/2012 05:42:19 PM PST

Marin residents spend the highest percentage of their household incomes on transportation and housing among the nine Bay Area counties, according to a newly issued report.

Expensive housing in Marin combined with transportation costs means the average county household devotes 56.3 percent of its income to those necessities, according to an analysis by the Chicago-based Center for Neighborhood Technology, a community planning think tank. The Bay Area average is 48.3 percent.

In Marin, housing accounts for 35.6 percent and transportation 20.7 percent of household income. The percentage for housing was tops in the Bay Area, followed by San Mateo County at 32.9 percent and Contra Costa County at 32.4 percent.

Marin also landed at the high end of transportation costs, paying the fourth highest percentage among the nine Bay Area counties. Sonoma County had the highest cost with 23.8 percent of household income devoted to transportation.

Marin's high costs are not surprising, said Maria Choca Urban, director of transportation and community development for the Center for Neighborhood Technology.

"When you get to the suburbs you have communities that are built in lower densities than urban areas," she said. "You see houses in one area and commercial areas in another. It's often a mile or more to get to a store, so it often becomes a car trip, and they add up."

...

"Marin has high housing costs, which drive the number, and we don't expect a huge amount of growth in housing," said John Goodwin, spokesman for the MTC.

But there is some urban-like density in Marin that could allow for more jobs in the county in the future.

...

Also, the county does have Marin Transit buses, aggressive pedestrian and bicycle programs and a planned commuter rail line in SMART, which could help bring transportation costs down, Urban said.

The median single-family home price in Marin in January was $679,000, according to the county assessor's office.

...

The index — based on calculations using data from the U.S. Census Bureau's American Communities Survey — was created in an effort to make the costs transparent to people and policy makers so they can make smart decisions about where they live and how they invest public dollars, said Scott Bernstein, founder and president of the Center for Neighborhood Technology.

"At a time when gas prices rise weekly, income is flat, and public transportation funding is threatened, the (analysis) provides information that can help us control the cost of living for families and communities," he said.

Contact Mark Prado via email at mprado@marinij.com

COSTS IN THE BAY AREA

Percentage of household income in Bay Area counties dedicated to housing and transportation:
Marin: 56.3 percent
Sonoma: 55.2 percent
Solano: 54 percent
San Mateo: 53.3 percent
Contra Costa: 52.8 percent
Napa: 50.7 percent
Alameda: 47 percent
Santa Clara: 47 percent
San Francisco: 39.5 percent
Bay Area: 48.3 percent
Source: Center for Neighborhood Technology

COSTS IN MARIN

Percentage of household income in Marin cities dedicated to housing and transportation:
Ross: 78.7 percent
Tiburon: 70.1 percent
Mill Valley: 61.3 percent
San Anselmo: 59.9 percent
Belvedere: 58.4 percent
Fairfax: 55.4 percent
Corte Madera: 54.8 percent
Larkspur: 53.8 percent
Novato: 53.8 percent
Sausalito: 52.1 percent
San Rafael: 49.9 percent
Marin: 56.3 percent
Source: Center for Neighborhood Technology

http://www.marinij.com/marinnews/ci_20073965

[llamaorama]

^Caltrain passengers are allowed to bring and consume their own liquor on board

How does this work out?

It sounds fun and libertine reading it but then in reality I'm not so sure. Sure I can see Mad Men types riding in a special bar car buying drinks sold on board, they still have that in Connecticut on the New Haven... but BYOB?

Not sure if I want to sit next to a urban camper enjoying 40 ounces of the finest Olde English from a paper bag. Of for that matter a belligerent yuppie douchebag after a third round of wine tasting.

[ardecila]

^^ It works fine in Chicago. Usually you get businessmen drinking a tallboy or a group of friends that split a sixer. During special events and festivals when heavy drinking is likely, Metra prohibits alcohol. You're right that it's a vestige of an earlier, more genteel time, but it still seems to work pretty smoothly. I believe the alcohol allowance was instituted after Metra stopped providing their own bars.

For quite a number of businessmen/women in Chicago, a drink after work is important. The sales from alcohol at the evening rush are the bread-and-butter of numerous bars and drugstores.

I've never seen any homeless drinking alcohol on Metra... largely because Metra is inhospitable to them. It's expensive to ride and it goes out to some pretty auto-dependent places where the local law enforcement will throw them in the slammer for loitering. I have, very occasionally, seen homeless people on the train - but never during rush hour. Usually they're sleeping, and I have no idea what happens to them when the train gets out to Harvard (tiny farm town 60 miles from Chicago).

The real problem is drunken bros and frat boys, and I'm including some women in that category too. Usually these people have already finished their drinking by the time they board the train.

[KVNBKLYN]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

How does this work out?

It sounds fun and libertine reading it but then in reality I'm not so sure. Sure I can see Mad Men types riding in a special bar car buying drinks sold on board, they still have that in Connecticut on the New Haven... but BYOB?

Not sure if I want to sit next to a urban camper enjoying 40 ounces of the finest Olde English from a paper bag. Of for that matter a belligerent yuppie douchebag after a third round of wine tasting.

Drinking is legal on all three New York commuter railroads. It's one of the pleasures of taking the train. I don't live in the burbs but when I've taken any of the three railroads I've never seen anyone getting messy. And of course most Amtrak trains sell alcohol just like the airlines do.

[pesto]

The average Caltrain rider on the Peninsula is a software type working in Silicon Valley or a young or old person. Not the partying type. Having said this, some of the older folks are totally soused.