NEW YORK | 532 Neptune Avenue | 470 FT | 40 FLOORS

[chris08876]

What was really going on at that meeting:





Looks like he's gonna eat the mic.

[NYguy]

LOL, they really are not happy.


_

[NYguy]

http://www.brooklyndaily.com/stories...bk_2015_6.html

Trump class cram concerns





By Vanessa Ogle
Feb 5, 2014

Brighton Beach residents are worried about the impact of a proposed 40-story tower on the already-crowded schools — despite the developer’s plan to fill the building with young hipsters and childless couples.

One elected official said the district — which has schools operating at 130 and 141 percent — has more than enough students already and adding a 430-foot full of new residents could overwhelm an already congested area.

“We are overcapacity in District 21,” said Councilman Mark Treyger (D–Coney Island).

The plans for the tower set to replace the Trump Village Shopping Center — which are still awaiting approval from the Department of Buildings — include 544 residential units with 109 enclosed parking spaces and a retail unit on the ground floor.

At previous public meetings presenting the plans for the tower, one of the developer’s representatives, Dennis Hasher, said mostly single individuals without children will live in the tower, so residents don’t have to worry about more overcrowding in the school system.

A local neighborhood booster said the likelihood of the developer turning Sheepshead Bay into the next hipster enclave is slim.

“Williamsburg is Williamsburg — it is Williamsburg because of its geographical proximity [to Manhattan],” said Steve Barrison, the president of the Bay Improvement Group. “To say that [Brighton Beach] is comparable, would be quite a leap.”

Seventy-five perfect of the units will be one-bedrooms and studios, according to Christa Segalini, a spokeswoman for the developer.

But Treyger said it is unrealistic to promises locals that the new residents won’t have families.

“I don’t know what he wants us to believe — are robots moving into these apartments?” said Treyger, adding that it is impossible for the developer to predict how families will decide to reproduce. “There is a huge disconnect between what was presented — what was shared with the public — and what actually is.”

A longtime local said that even if an influx of kids doesn’t overrun the schools, new resisdents would still add to the neighborhood’s traffic and infrastructure problems.

“In theory, you could bus the kids to another school,” said Brighton Beacher Ida Sanoff, before adding that in reality, the roads are so congested, residents have a hard time driving already. “Traffic now is so extreme for most of the year — people are literally trapped.”

Treyger said that the developer may be legally entitled to build the as-of-right project, it is in the best interest of everyone for the owner to listen to the community’s concerns.

“I understand what as-of-right means but they have to understand what democracy means,” he said.

Tentative plans for the new shopping center include “upscale” stores like Trader Joe’s — a contrast to pharmacies, doctors’ offices, and discount stores that line the shopping complex now.

Because the soil underneath the current complex is contaminated with toxins such as cyanide and mercury, the Department of Environmental Conservation is hosting a meeting later this month to discuss the department’s overseeing of the cleanup of the site before the developer announces the start date for construction.

Trump Village Shopping Center Public Meeting featuring the Department of Environmental Conservation at Abraham Lincoln High School in Brighton Beach (2800 Ocean Parkway near West Avenue). Feb. 11 at 7 pm.

[steyin]

My grandmother lives down the block in Building 3 at Luna Park (and is on the developments chair/committee, whatever it is. She had say in the recent renovation to the complex). I understand the outrage from people there, after all, this is Coney Island and they don't welcome new residential construction lightly. That neighborhood is mostly Russian/Jewish, and not really a place for a younger crowd. All of the existing residential towers around are rent stabilized and have a waiting list of years for people to get an apartment (which usually get handed down to family members).

The last tower to go up was the one on the other side of the F train, next to the McDonalds/diagonally across from the site (not a tall one, only 12 storeys). I don't remember whether or not that caused a fuss, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did. "Upscale" stores won't cut it there I feel as the income levels aren't the best for the area, with a high percentage of people being retired/elderly. I am pretty certain though that the bulk of people who would move into this development would be Russian and new immigrants as they are most likely the only ones who could afford it (if they are condos). The design also doesn't fit the area I feel.

From what I've seen from responses in this thread, I'd say you should take some time to understand the existing community and history of the area before poking fun at those crowds from the meetings. I myself don't oppose new development there (but also wouldn't want to live in that neighborhood), but it has to be done in unison with the community, just as the future development along the boardwalk desperately needs to be.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by steyin

I myself don't oppose new development there (but also wouldn't want to live in that neighborhood), but it has to be done in unison with the community, just as the future development along the boardwalk desperately needs to be.

Why? Why would a developer have to personally consult "the community"? There is no such obligation nor should there be. If there were, then nothing would ever get built.

The ironic thing is that "the community" lives in a bunch of gigantic urban renewal towers that eviscerated the old neighborhood. Anyone who lives in one of those towers and complains about new development is a hypocrite.

This project is great for the neighborhood, IMO, because it restores the urban fabric that was damaged during the 1960's urban renewal era. Essentially the neighborhood is returning to its original form, but in a denser version.

[antinimby]

@ steyin--

The developer owns the land. What right does a bunch of elderly people have to tell him what he should/should not do with it?

He's following zoning rules and doing what he legally is entitled to do with his land. If like you say, that place is not for young people or upscale stores, then it's his problem if it doesn't sell or the stores don't do well. This is a free country (well, sort of because it's NYC after all...)

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by antinimby

@ steyin--

The developer owns the land. What right does a bunch of elderly people have to tell him what he should/should not do with it?

He's following zoning rules and doing what he legally is entitled to do with his land. If like you say, that place is not for young people or upscale stores, then it's his problem if it doesn't sell or the stores don't do well. This is a free country (well, sort of because it's NYC after all...)

Uh, tall buildings destroy lives and infect children with Ebola. WE ARE THE 99%!!!

[chris08876]

The biggest objection to this project is the loss of the current shopping establishments. Even though there will be new ones, the pharmacy loss is the biggest pet peeve. I know this because a local resident emailed me. When I use to have my email listed in my signature, I'd get people asking me how I could support such a thing.

Also, and this is funny, they say that they don't want high rises in their neighborhood. Now.... if you've ever seen the area surrounding 532 Neptune, its full of them.

Like Bill Cosby once said, "NIMBY's say the darndest things".

You should see the hate mail I got when some of them for other projects went through my mid rise compilation. Some actually had the nerve to say 6 stories was destructive to the community.

Then there's the argument of more pedestrians on the sidewalk, and it goes on. Thier logic is not compatible in a city of 8.5 million.

[Ploppalopp]

How can someone not support this? I guess mabye because it's too short lol. But really, its surrounded by a bunch of low income housing projects. Its not like its in some historic district of some ancient city.

[chris08876]

The surrounding community has money, although the structures may be deceiving. They tend to be of middle class origin, and have been in the same units for ages. Its one of those cases where they community was lucky and got a good rate or bought at a time where it was way cheaper. Essentially the types who never move out. Really this comes down to construction burden, and a temporary shopping burden. But this project will commence. This is like a case of nats for the developers. Swat them away, and eventually, they go away.

[Ploppalopp]

And by the way Chris, did some NIMBYs really venture onto this forum and then start nagging you on your email? That's hilarious. But yeah, I hope that these fools don't cause this project to be scaled down or anything of that sort.

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by Ploppalopp

And by the way Chris, did some NIMBYs really venture onto this forum and then start nagging you on your email? That's hilarious. But yeah, I hope that these fools don't cause this project to be scaled down or anything of that sort.

Yes. I even have their LinkedIn with their names and careers lol.

Believe it or not, SSP and SSC are nimby magnets. When you type a project onto google, its usually the 3rd or 4th link because we have threads with the addresses. Some of the NIMBY tabloids in the past have referenced SSP or SSC.

Even at YIMBY forums, if I go to the deleted spam posts which is a mod thing there, I find that its nimbys. They'll make an account just to piss on a project.

So when you see at the bottom members and "X" amount of guests, some may be those things we call NIMBY's.

CetraRuddy will be the next target of these groups. Some have presented a anger towards them ,especially with Brooklyn projects.

[NYguy]

Nothing wrong with a disagreement on a project. Not even all forum members agree on everything. Whether or not something should be built is ok, as long as it's on the topic of the development itself. I don't mind that NIMBYs post. Where else could they be set straight? We're always open to discussion, but they shouldn't expect to change any hearts (and nor should we). But each side could come away with a little more understanding.

[Ploppalopp]

I'm glad that you pointed out the importance of discussion between people with different views. That's one of the reasons i love this site so much.

Originally Posted by NYguy

Nothing wrong with a disagreement on a project. Not even all forum members agree on everything. Whether or not something should be built is ok, as long as it's on the topic of the development itself. I don't mind that NIMBYs post. Where else could they be set straight? We're always open to discussion, but they shouldn't expect to change any hearts (and nor should we). But each side could come away with a little more understanding.

[oldurbanism]

I'm a bit confused by the overcrowded schools thing. The community always seemed rather old and Russian/Jewish, and they definitely don't have high fertility rates.

Regardless, I'm not sure how these people can oppose development in an area littered with high rises already.

[NYguy]

It seems to be a natural reaction people seem to have with anything new being built in their surroundings. A lot of people just don't like change, even if it is for the better. This is an area that doesn't see a lot of development and change, something like this is major for them. Throw in the fact that its and older crowd, and the sentiment doubles. But like anything else, you adapt to change, and it becomes a part of your life. This building isn't going to eat anyone. Still, I get the feeling they'd be against it even if it came with 3 schools and the shopping center was left untouched.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Ploppalopp

How can someone not support this? I guess mabye because it's too short lol. But really, its surrounded by a bunch of low income housing projects. Its not like its in some historic district of some ancient city.

There are no housing projects around those sites. Most of the surrounding buildings are fairly expensive.

[chris08876]

^^^

Yup. Many of these project look a likes have old money. People who have been in them for many years. Parts of Brooklyn too. Area use to be cheap, but over the decades it gradually went up. Nowadays, you need a good income to live in that area. Those who invested in the 70's will make a fortune selling in todays prices. (Thinks of Upper East Side)

[steyin]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Why? Why would a developer have to personally consult "the community"? There is no such obligation nor should there be. If there were, then nothing would ever get built.

The ironic thing is that "the community" lives in a bunch of gigantic urban renewal towers that eviscerated the old neighborhood. Anyone who lives in one of those towers and complains about new development is a hypocrite.

This project is great for the neighborhood, IMO, because it restores the urban fabric that was damaged during the 1960's urban renewal era. Essentially the neighborhood is returning to its original form, but in a denser version.

My comment was more so directed at the mentality of developers/architects when they design. They don't need to consult the community literally, but should be in touch with the site's sensitivity.

As an architect I try to respect the culture/history of a given site and its context so as to not design something that doesn't fit in at all or would blatantly disrupt the area. I feel that within the profession many people ignore their site/historical/cultural research and design blindly, which personally is insulting. I know I can't control it and that it isn't necessary or a form of design law, but it comes more so as a courtesy that I like to uphold.

[Hypothalamus]

I look forward to seeing this one rise; I have a great view of Coney Island's skyline from the east.