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  #6541  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2016, 3:27 PM
PHXFlyer11 PHXFlyer11 is offline
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...apartment.html

Tempe and the greater Phoenix area are NOT developed enough to have NIMBY's like this.

what a shame
Haha, we posted at the same time, same sentiments.
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  #6542  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2016, 3:36 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11 View Post
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...apartment.html

This is terrible. So basically Tempe has resigned itself to only go vertical between the Lake, Ash, University and Rural. Feels like all the progress they were making is really taking a step back. Who cares about those shit apartments and houses across the street. Those people should be happy to see their land values rise. I guess they are all renters and are concerned more about their rents going up. This was a great project. Big loss with Crescent and now this. Get your shit together Tempe.
I don't mind community input but you need to balance it out. Just because some backwards thinking assholes who live near farmer "doesn't like" traffic or some bullshit is not reason to derail a multi million dollar project.

Not all concerns are valid, really only if there is a reasonable complaint with the project should the community have any say at all.
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  #6543  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2016, 1:56 AM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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The lack of foresight by this council is infuriating. Slowly, every single investment aside from the lake is losing value. Why bother with LRT, streetcar, etc. if you don't allow for the intensity of uses needed to sustain TOD?

The residents made not one single valid argument over the project against logical lists of benefits presented by supporters. An infusion of market rate apartments, retail connecting Mill > Farmer, and the planned office/garage would have nearly completed this development tract and created a distinct urban area beyond Mill. Now, the developer has no immediate plans for the land and I don't blame him. Crescent Rio was denied even though the council decided 1st St should be a mixed-use midrise area?

The Foundry is exactly why Farmer Arts was needed. Developments like this and Hanover on lots that were intended for up to 25+ stories keep pushing the potential growth in downtown permanent residents lower and lower. A 13-story on Farmer could have helped make up for those lost densities. Beyond its height being underwhelming, the Whole Foods rendering is exactly why Fry's will be a design fail for Block 23. As a future streetcar stop, there should be more than just blank Whole Foods walls for 90% of the frontage. Shallow retail bays should have been added.

I am not confident that The Standard will get built. The missing Mill frontage and lack of retail space is unfortunate, but overall, this is the type of project needed instead of religious dorms, 5-story single-use apartments, and parking lots.

P.S. The neighborhood plans to fight against The Foundry. They are clearly against any and all development. Most argue that they can't afford WF - um, sorry, you don't dictate the market assholes.
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  #6544  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2016, 2:05 AM
PHXFlyer11 PHXFlyer11 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jjs5056 View Post
The lack of foresight by this council is infuriating. Slowly, every single investment aside from the lake is losing value. Why bother with LRT, streetcar, etc. if you don't allow for the intensity of uses needed to sustain TOD?

The residents made not one single valid argument over the project against logical lists of benefits presented by supporters. An infusion of market rate apartments, retail connecting Mill > Farmer, and the planned office/garage would have nearly completed this development tract and created a distinct urban area beyond Mill. Now, the developer has no immediate plans for the land and I don't blame him. Crescent Rio was denied even though the council decided 1st St should be a mixed-use midrise area?

The Foundry is exactly why Farmer Arts was needed. Developments like this and Hanover on lots that were intended for up to 25+ stories keep pushing the potential growth in downtown permanent residents lower and lower. A 13-story on Farmer could have helped make up for those lost densities. Beyond its height being underwhelming, the Whole Foods rendering is exactly why Fry's will be a design fail for Block 23. As a future streetcar stop, there should be more than just blank Whole Foods walls for 90% of the frontage. Shallow retail bays should have been added.

I am not confident that The Standard will get built. The missing Mill frontage and lack of retail space is unfortunate, but overall, this is the type of project needed instead of religious dorms, 5-story single-use apartments, and parking lots.

P.S. The neighborhood plans to fight against The Foundry. They are clearly against any and all development. Most argue that they can't afford WF - um, sorry, you don't dictate the market assholes.
Agree completely. They will regrettable realize that these people are fools and in the way of positive economic development after they oppose every single development. We've already lost two outstanding proposals. How many will it take before the city realizes that a handful of people who don't even have a stake in the future of the city (they are renters and clearly don't own the properties they live in) are handcuffing the future of the city.
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  #6545  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2016, 2:30 AM
PHXFlyer11 PHXFlyer11 is offline
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I am still fuming on this. I found the council email address and send them this. I encourage you all to do the same. I'm just one voice. Three voices are probably enough to equal the fools who opposed these things.

Mayor and Council,

I grew in up South Tempe, attended ASU (undergrad and MBA) and lived in Tempe until I was 22 years old. It has been so exciting to see Tempe develop into a growing but still intimate semi-urban environment. Most recently however, it is concerning to see the regression take place that seriously limits the potential further economic growth of the city. The decisions by many members to oppose the development of Crescent on Rio Salado and the 13-story project on Farmer poise significant risk to the city and the investments that have been made by the taxpayers.

Light rail has been a great success, the future street car will further contribute to an urban environment and spur additional growth – that is of course unless you continue to discourage high-density development and create reluctance among developers who are looking to invest hundreds of millions of dollars into our city. What good are these investments if no further growth can be achieved, or if density is limited to simply a handful of remaining empty parcels between Mill, University, Rural and Rio Salado?

Your choices to please a vocal few will only inspire them to continue their efforts against any sort of development in Downtown Tempe, and spook developers who are looking to invest in our city. There will always be opposition to any development, or anything in life. People like hang onto the past. They claim that traffic will increase. Why are we investing in public transit, if not to create an alternative that further enables the economic future of the city?

Citizens have choices. If they don’t like the traffic they can choose to not renew their leases. Clearly, those opposed to the developments are not actual those invested in the future as long owners. Land owners would understand that the value of their properties will only increase with these investments. New residents who seek an urban lifestyle will move into the new properties that are developed, and bring with them incomes to support local businesses and compound the investments made over the last twenty years.

As I said, we all have choices, mine will be not to support those council members who cower to a vocal few who are opposed to progress. The pattern that they have established with now two wonderful projects shunned will hurt this city for the foreseeable future.

Regrettably,

Jon
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  #6546  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2016, 3:03 AM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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I appreciate your efforts, but it will fall on deaf ears. My letters to the Council caught the attention of the project's lawyer who asked me to come speak in support.

So I attended, and spoke at, the council meeting. Prior to me, several business owners pleaded for more residential to be allowed. I focused on the fact that it becomes a simple economics and math exercise when evaluating the crucial need for Tempe to develop denser permanent housing to support retail beyond bars and restaurants that cater to students. I mentioned Tempe voters having bought into a true urban core through the passage of several public projects. And, I mentioned that the City is throwing all of those new State Farm workers straight to Scottsdale. The only response? 1 question: "why would this be successful when Hanover is X% occupied?" my answer: "i have not been employed by the developer to research whether there is sufficient demand, but I imagine they see something if they are fighting for its success. Oh, and Hanover is a disaster of a building."

The opinions they listened to were a combo of "you'll price us out of the neighborhood," "it's too tall!," "traffic. parking.," etc. Nearly everyone was asked what they'd prefer to see there and more than one said they prefer a vacant lot to this kind of project. They were also asked what height they thought it should be, which is ridiculous and an insult to the developer who chose the height based on what works out financially. Answers ranged from 0-9.
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  #6547  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2016, 2:17 PM
muertecaza muertecaza is offline
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Zoning sign watch: Massive apartment complex planned at Smith/Martin lightrail stop.



Empty lots on the south side of Apache--2025, 2055 and 2085 Apache--comprising roughly 13 acres.

38,000 (!) sf of retail, including restaurant, yoga studio and bar.

Up to 6 story buildings, 688 apartments, about 1000 bedrooms, garage parking. 52 du/ac. Total 1.3m sf.
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  #6548  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2016, 4:13 PM
ASUSunDevil ASUSunDevil is offline
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Originally Posted by Jjs5056 View Post
I appreciate your efforts, but it will fall on deaf ears. My letters to the Council caught the attention of the project's lawyer who asked me to come speak in support.

So I attended, and spoke at, the council meeting. Prior to me, several business owners pleaded for more residential to be allowed. I focused on the fact that it becomes a simple economics and math exercise when evaluating the crucial need for Tempe to develop denser permanent housing to support retail beyond bars and restaurants that cater to students. I mentioned Tempe voters having bought into a true urban core through the passage of several public projects. And, I mentioned that the City is throwing all of those new State Farm workers straight to Scottsdale. The only response? 1 question: "why would this be successful when Hanover is X% occupied?" my answer: "i have not been employed by the developer to research whether there is sufficient demand, but I imagine they see something if they are fighting for its success. Oh, and Hanover is a disaster of a building."

The opinions they listened to were a combo of "you'll price us out of the neighborhood," "it's too tall!," "traffic. parking.," etc. Nearly everyone was asked what they'd prefer to see there and more than one said they prefer a vacant lot to this kind of project. They were also asked what height they thought it should be, which is ridiculous and an insult to the developer who chose the height based on what works out financially. Answers ranged from 0-9.
Also, Hanover doesn't rent to anyone under the age of 23. While this may sound fantastic in theory, they've eliminated the wealthy ASU student (there are a lot) from even attempting to rent an apartment. Creating a slim demographic of potential renters contributes highly to their lack of occupants (also a very mediocre looking building).

Good design sells, and that's exactly what the city allowed a few transients to flush down the toilet with Farmer Arts. The fact that they're allowing a few Nimby's to dictate the future of Tempe is truly incomprehensible. As a Downtown Tempe resident for nearly a decade, I am literally ready to pack my shit and move to Downtown Phoenix.
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  #6549  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2016, 4:36 PM
PHXFlyer11 PHXFlyer11 is offline
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Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil View Post
As a Downtown Tempe resident for nearly a decade, I am literally ready to pack my shit and move to Downtown Phoenix.
I did just that. Tempe didn't really have any high-rise condos (other than HFL) or rent options for young professionals. I wanted to buy and live in an urban environment that was a bit more mature. I settled on Midtown.
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  #6550  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2016, 5:45 PM
dtnphx dtnphx is offline
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Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil View Post
Also, Hanover doesn't rent to anyone under the age of 23. While this may sound fantastic in theory, they've eliminated the wealthy ASU student (there are a lot) from even attempting to rent an apartment. Creating a slim demographic of potential renters contributes highly to their lack of occupants (also a very mediocre looking building).

Good design sells, and that's exactly what the city allowed a few transients to flush down the toilet with Farmer Arts. The fact that they're allowing a few Nimby's to dictate the future of Tempe is truly incomprehensible. As a Downtown Tempe resident for nearly a decade, I am literally ready to pack my shit and move to Downtown Phoenix.
It's funny how now everyone's perception that Tempe doesn't know urban development and Phoenix is THE place now where only a few months ago it was the opposite opinion of virtually everyone on the forum. Now people are threatening to move away from Tempe because a few projects have been nixed? Really? Overall, development in Tempe is on fire, and like the old song says, you can't always get what you want. Some shit fails. Sometimes a project doesn't resonate for some reason. In a few months, there will be new proposals that will make everyone forget the sky is falling.
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  #6551  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2016, 7:41 PM
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combusean combusean is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muertecaza View Post
Zoning sign watch: Massive apartment complex planned at Smith/Martin lightrail stop.



Empty lots on the south side of Apache--2025, 2055 and 2085 Apache--comprising roughly 13 acres.

38,000 (!) sf of retail, including restaurant, yoga studio and bar.

Up to 6 story buildings, 688 apartments, about 1000 bedrooms, garage parking. 52 du/ac. Total 1.3m sf.
It boggles my mind how much land this company owns there. Seems like an entitle and flip project.
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  #6552  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2016, 8:25 PM
ASUSunDevil ASUSunDevil is offline
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Originally Posted by dtnphx View Post
It's funny how now everyone's perception that Tempe doesn't know urban development and Phoenix is THE place now where only a few months ago it was the opposite opinion of virtually everyone on the forum. Now people are threatening to move away from Tempe because a few projects have been nixed? Really? Overall, development in Tempe is on fire, and like the old song says, you can't always get what you want. Some shit fails. Sometimes a project doesn't resonate for some reason. In a few months, there will be new proposals that will make everyone forget the sky is falling.
I love what Tempe has done on the commercial aspect of development, and I agree it's absolutely on fire. Who wouldn't want to work in Downtown Tempe (hot college girls and tons of food options)?

The problem is that young professionals don't want to live in Downtown Tempe because the "cool" living options aren't there (unless they can afford a $2800 per month 2 bed on the lake). Shutting down Farmer Arts to please a few nimby's speaks volumes to the cities lack of residential vision. I can feel the trend because I live in the middle of it; all of my friends are headed towards Central Phoenix. I will be first in line to sign a lease at Circles

Last edited by ASUSunDevil; Apr 22, 2016 at 9:49 PM.
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  #6553  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2016, 2:39 AM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil View Post
I love what Tempe has done on the commercial aspect of development, and I agree it's absolutely on fire. Who wouldn't want to work in Downtown Tempe (hot college girls and tons of food options)?

The problem is that young professionals don't want to live in Downtown Tempe because the "cool" living options aren't there (unless they can afford a $2800 per month 2 bed on the lake). Shutting down Farmer Arts to please a few nimby's speaks volumes to the cities lack of residential vision. I can feel the trend because I live in the middle of it; all of my friends are headed towards Central Phoenix. I will be first in line to sign a lease at Circles
I agree. I don't think it's a case of people being fickle or being persuaded/dissuaded by a couple of projects on either end. Having spent an entire weekend in each of the two downtowns for the first time in a while, the change in vibes for both is most definitely real. A little over a year ago, the area between Roosevelt St and CityScape was pretty much dead beyond ASU. With the wave of adaptive reuse running south to Fillmore and the new entertainment/dining options now surging in the most urban downtown blocks (Monroe and Adams), downtown now has a really good mix of commercial activity that is almost 24-7 before any of the residential projects have opened. Flood the streets with 1,000+ residents, and the holes will start to fill in and redevelopment will occur.

Tempe, OTOH, has more concentrated "energy," but in my upper 20's, I felt a little out of place and, of course, once you step off Mill, it's a ghost town. Back in the boom, there were great plans that would expand the energy of Mill east and west and create a real downtown, but that isn't a vision that has been implemented or supported. The lakefront and ASU's district will build up, but they're pretty suburban in design and there just isn't much land left in the core of downtown for the trend to turn back. Filling in a few lots with 5-story market rate apartments will never provide the amount of density being built already downtown Phx.

It's too bad Mackay is a quack and obsessed with proving that she 'turned around Midtown,' and has now added the Warehouse District to her agenda, because downtown really needs jobs now. That State Farm complex in downtown Phoenix would've been awesome - and there would have been residential options for the workers to live in.
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  #6554  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 6:49 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Two project updates:
http://azbex.com/tempe-may-get-new-f...ld-inn-suites/

Corner of Priest and Fountainhead Pkway. Shitty use for that space would have preferred a 4+ story office building or something.

And the Church tower
http://azbex.com/tempe-oks-295-unit-...using-project/

Does this have legs??
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  #6555  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 8:28 PM
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That Fairfield Inn looks so dated...like something from the 1980s or 1990s. Why bother hiring an architect? Use plans from one of the other 20 million ugly designs.
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  #6556  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 8:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Jjs5056 View Post
That State Farm complex in downtown Phoenix would've been awesome - and there would have been residential options for the workers to live in.
Where exactly would you put 8,000 employees and a parking spot for every one of them and then some in Downtown Phoenix? I'm glad Downtown didn't get this for that reason.
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  #6557  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2016, 9:10 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Where exactly would you put 8,000 employees and a parking spot for every one of them and then some in Downtown Phoenix? I'm glad Downtown didn't get this for that reason.
Its like 80 floors worth of towers of office space. I also wish it was downtown but state farm very actively chooses to locate all of our offices in suburban areas.

The recent developments in Tempe, Dunwoody Ga, and Richardson Tx, are shockingly urban by comparison.

company preference they would never locate in a downtown.
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  #6558  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2016, 1:09 AM
RichTempe RichTempe is offline
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From KTAR about the AC Hotel opening next month. Not really much new other than the opening date.

http://ktar.com/story/1043035/first-...ke-next-month/
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  #6559  
Old Posted May 3, 2016, 2:26 PM
azsunsurfer azsunsurfer is offline
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I was driving down Rural yesterday and there is a red zoning sign on the corner with Terrace. Originally this corner was entitled for two towers but it never went anywhere. I couldn't really read the sign or when the neighborhood meeting is but I did see the name for the new development "SKYVIEW" so I am assuming it might be another tower(s)? If anyone has anymore info...
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  #6560  
Old Posted May 3, 2016, 4:29 PM
dtnphx dtnphx is offline
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This is disappointing...

Cresent Taking Another Run at Tempe Project With Dramatically Scaled Back Density

Takes a bit of time to load....

http://brewaz.com/hot-news/crescent-...-back-density/
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