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  #21  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2007, 6:39 PM
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Hey, knock knock




Yup, it sure is
Why can't we have a civil discussion about a city with out people trying to start shit. Stop trolling and contribute something or go away, it's quite simple.
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  #22  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2007, 6:48 PM
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But that is my point...in "comparison" to many of the cities you listed, Calgary has done a really good job and "stacks up" admirably. All listed have their issues, all listed have good amounts of park space, and all listed have good libraries, museums, etc. Retail is a function of the demand of the market, you can't force that, but all cities mentioned have malls and power centers.

Houston has a space history, so you will expect to see more of that there. Denver has a rodeo history, and the Hall of Fame is just south. Calgary can't force a "museum of natural history" or the like, those usually arrive at major ports or capitals.

Calgary, like the others mentioned, is starting to remember street orientation. Houston has a dearth of this, just like Alberta in the 80's when many of the buildings you see were built or conceived. So, like all cities, they are learning from the "mistakes" of the previous generations, and also smattering it with "what was old is new again" - aka streetfront vs insular mall.

So, given it's geographic place and relative stature in the North American marketplace, I think Calgary has a great mix of what you suggest. As it grows, it will naturally get more.

Love to see in Calgary, that is something that should be organic within the city itself. Copying another is just lame. The best things are spawned by a local reference or reverence that just "takes off".

Maybe a park with a "Chinook" theme - sweeping architacture/sculpture that reminds one of a fast wind blowing through the prairie?
All good points. I find Calgary to be somewhat bland and soul-less at times, but that is a product of how we grew as a city, and the fact that we are barely a century old. Calgary is a city with out an identity right now, and we are building that at this very moment. The Cowboy theme is only valid for 10 days a year, and outside of that, we have oil and the railroad. Tourism will play a huge part in shaping what kind of city we become as well.

I have never been to any of the cities that I listed, and most others in the US, so that's why I want to know what kind of civic areas they have that help define them as a city. Vancouver has gas town and Granville island, NYC has all 5 boroughs, Milwaukee has Beer (as mentioned above), and lots of progressive architecture, San Francisco has that old Spanish charm, New Orleans has (had) soul and Vegas has the flash and the glits and glamour. What is Calgary? where do we fit?
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  #23  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2007, 7:08 PM
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^Calgary doesn't really have a defining thing right now, but that is an issue with cities in Western Canada in general. Most have a disinct lack of history, having most of their growth post-1950 so the buildup of architectural history is sparse. Its why I'm so vehement that tearing down old structures be well thought out because we're really doing our ability to create a certain feel a disservice.

Organic isn't planned. It takes time. Time and a good sense of regionalism in arcitecture and planning because Calgary isn't any other city. Calgary has its own unique history and topography that should be driving the design. It's my biggest beef with the cities in Saskatchewan and Alberta. A complete lack, for the most part, of identifying our situation through the built environment.
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  #24  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2007, 7:44 PM
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If you're talking about sprawl, then you're well on your way to Houston/Minneapolis-St. Paul. Denver I could understand based solely on location.
I'm no expert on Denver, I only spent 24 hours there but from what I saw Denver is nothing like Calgary. A lot of construction downtown, yeah but that's about it. I guess being close to the mountains is similar, but I thought I was in Mexico really, I heard more spanish than english in my 24 hours in Denver (at least until I got to the hockey game) and I saw maybe one or two asian people. Denver is also really dirty and it seems to be a lot more rundown. I would say the sprawl is much worse in Denver too, way bigger houses and lots and it has grown together with its surrounding cities already unlike Calgary for the most part, and why the heck is the airport 40km from the city? Denver is very american, Calgary is very canadian, I see few similarities. oh and housing is much cheaper in Denver
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  #25  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2007, 8:12 PM
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I'm no expert on Denver, I only spent 24 hours there but from what I saw Denver is nothing like Calgary. A lot of construction downtown, yeah but that's about it. I guess being close to the mountains is similar, but I thought I was in Mexico really, I heard more spanish than english in my 24 hours in Denver (at least until I got to the hockey game) and I saw maybe one or two asian people. Denver is also really dirty and it seems to be a lot more rundown. I would say the sprawl is much worse in Denver too, way bigger houses and lots and it has grown together with its surrounding cities already unlike Calgary for the most part, and why the heck is the airport 40km from the city? Denver is very american, Calgary is very canadian, I see few similarities. oh and housing is much cheaper in Denver
Are there shopping districts or communities in Denver that ARE well done? what are some of the lessons about that city that we can learn from?
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  #26  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2007, 8:19 PM
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Why can't we have a civil discussion about a city with out people trying to start shit. Stop trolling and contribute something or go away, it's quite simple
There it is, the infamous "T" word.. You should know better, Johnnyboy, pot & kettle thing & all ;^)

You asked for city comparisons, I gave you one from Milwaukee, a city I sepnd about three weeks a year in & one of my favorite "1 millionish" US city. Beautiful place, in an interesting state of flux right now. Lots of great entertainment, and a very diverse cross-section of people. Milwaukee has lots of available land, like Calgary, ut unlike Calgary it is bordered on the east by lake Michigan, and huge abandonned warehousing & industrial on the south & west. North Milwaukee is growing like the beltline with some impressive condo developments and very upscale restaurants and night spots. There downtown core does not have many underutilized parcels of land, which has resulted in some excellent densification.

Calgary, like many other pimples on the prarie, is a victim of sprawl due to the lack of natural boundaries found in coastal and mountainous cities. Calgary seems to be dealing with it better than many other cities, so much so that even the infamous east village has a shot at being properly developed as the city grows naturally. Comparable cities, take Edmonton for example, are a lot further off at being able to "naturally" develop the decrepid (sp ?) areas. Calgarys' burbs are carbon copies of the burbs in any other similar city, the big differences appear to be happennig downtown, and of course that is driven by an unprecedented construction boom that is directly tied to the energy sector. Most other cites in the 1 million range (I've never been to Texas tho.. can't comment on Houston or Austin or Dallas) don't have that working in thier favor.

Edited to add: I spent some time in Sacramento a few years back, when I was still living full time in Calgary. To me, Sacramento feels almost exactly like Calgary, and is similar in lots of ways, but I found Sacramento to feel soulless, lacking in vibrancy... quite unlike Calgary
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  #27  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2007, 8:21 PM
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All good points. I find Calgary to be somewhat bland and soul-less at times, but that is a product of how we grew as a city, and the fact that we are barely a century old. Calgary is a city with out an identity right now, and we are building that at this very moment. The Cowboy theme is only valid for 10 days a year, and outside of that, we have oil and the railroad. Tourism will play a huge part in shaping what kind of city we become as well.

I have never been to any of the cities that I listed, and most others in the US, so that's why I want to know what kind of civic areas they have that help define them as a city. Vancouver has gas town and Granville island, NYC has all 5 boroughs, Milwaukee has Beer (as mentioned above), and lots of progressive architecture, San Francisco has that old Spanish charm, New Orleans has (had) soul and Vegas has the flash and the glits and glamour. What is Calgary? where do we fit?
Johnny, I'm not sure what the big worry is about. Most cities in NA and most around the world don't have a special theme or angle to it. There are plenty of nice cities to live in, but most are typically just a city.

Calgary may have the Stampede for only 10 days, but it's still high profile and unique, and huge. Not many cities have something that large and unique. The Stampede is really much like Mardi Gras. If you've been to New Orleans outside of Mardi Gras you see that it's not the same city it is during Mardi Gras.

As far as angles that other cities have

Vancouver has gas town and Granville island Many other cities have something similar, those aren't very unique in my mind. Every eastern NA city seems to have an old touristy part of town like Gastown.

San Francisco has that old Spanish charm So do dozens of other cities in the southwest US


NYC has all 5 boroughs
I don't see the big deal in that really.

Las Vegas is a truly unique place, but it's one of few cities that are.
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  #28  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2007, 8:44 PM
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Johnny, I'm not sure what the big worry is about. Most cities in NA and most around the world don't have a special theme or angle to it. There are plenty of nice cities to live in, but most are typically just a city.
I agree with that. I don't see cities that are often compared to Calgary such as the aforementioned Denver, Houston or Minneapolis as being any less "bland" than Calgary is. Like those somewhat similar cities, Calgary is primarily a business hub, not a year-round tourist destination like San Fran, Vancouver, Vegas or New Orleans (proximity to Banff and the Stampede notwithstanding). That doesn't mean we should not strive to be a better place to live - we most certainly should - but I suspect this city will continue to be known primarily as a major business city that is a fine place to live in, but which may not be high up on people's "visit" lists.
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  #29  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2007, 8:50 PM
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I'm not concerned or worried about Calgary being anything, but since we are in a period of huge transition, I just wanted to discuss what works in other cities to make them more liveable and enjoyable for visitors, and if something similar could work in our context. That's all.

240glt, you did make a good comparison in between your posts that came off across as trying to be negative, and your implications that this would turn into a city vs city thread. If you want to discuss this topic, which I think could be a good discussion, feel free. If you are going to be negative, please don't post (unless it is constructive criticizm). Sound good?
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  #30  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2007, 9:10 PM
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As a Torontonian living in Edmonton for the past couple of years I have gotta say I really like Calgary...I have been a few times in the past few years and its a nice size city that gives a person alot of options.Does it compare to my home town Toronto?No, but for a city of its size it has got alot accomplished.It reminds me of a Minneapolis or a ''small'' Houston...
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  #31  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2007, 9:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tarapoto View Post
I'm no expert on Denver, I only spent 24 hours there but from what I saw Denver is nothing like Calgary. A lot of construction downtown, yeah but that's about it. I guess being close to the mountains is similar, but I thought I was in Mexico really, I heard more spanish than english in my 24 hours in Denver (at least until I got to the hockey game) and I saw maybe one or two asian people. Denver is also really dirty and it seems to be a lot more rundown. I would say the sprawl is much worse in Denver too, way bigger houses and lots and it has grown together with its surrounding cities already unlike Calgary for the most part, and why the heck is the airport 40km from the city? Denver is very american, Calgary is very canadian, I see few similarities. oh and housing is much cheaper in Denver

As a former Denverite, I have to disagree....

Denver has dirty parts, but really, no more so than Calgary.

The airport is another matter, but if you aren't from Edmonton, you can't relate. Let's just say it was the right decision after a debate from hell.

Denver is a lot like Calgary, and Edmonton. A crossroads of transportation that has a huge agrarian history smattered with resource companies and drier than a popcorn fart in the winter. Architecture, similar. People, similar. Retail, restaurants, etc - similar. Converntion center - bigger...blah blah blah.

You want to talk sprawl and big houses...um....er...Elbow Valley?

Denver has regional issues like Edmonton, and soon Calgary.

So, they are actually very very very comparable. If you thought Denver was white bread, guess what Denverites think of Calgary...
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  #32  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2007, 9:47 PM
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All good points. I find Calgary to be somewhat bland and soul-less at times, but that is a product of how we grew as a city, and the fact that we are barely a century old. Calgary is a city with out an identity right now, and we are building that at this very moment. The Cowboy theme is only valid for 10 days a year, and outside of that, we have oil and the railroad. Tourism will play a huge part in shaping what kind of city we become as well.

I have never been to any of the cities that I listed, and most others in the US, so that's why I want to know what kind of civic areas they have that help define them as a city. Vancouver has gas town and Granville island, NYC has all 5 boroughs, Milwaukee has Beer (as mentioned above), and lots of progressive architecture, San Francisco has that old Spanish charm, New Orleans has (had) soul and Vegas has the flash and the glits and glamour. What is Calgary? where do we fit?
You hit a lot of your concerns on the head there. Calgary is just too young and it a boom/bust city. NYC's atmosphere is 3 centuries old! Vegas is contrived and artificial, on purpose, but look at how quickly it wears on you. San Fran - again, older. Plus, it is a port city and the site of HUGE immigration/migration. New Orleans celebrates its mediocrity and hogde podge of French history in Spanish clothing/architecture. But, I'll live in Calgary over the Big Easy ANYDAY!

Time my friend. Time. That is all Alberta needs. You will see the identity further crystalize over time.
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  #33  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2007, 10:08 PM
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Calgary; Canada's new Toronto?
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  #34  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2007, 5:03 AM
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I don't think Calgarians should be trying to create some kind of special image for the city. It has to come naturally or it won't work. It's going to take time, and the western/cowboy thing may never entirely go away. Nor should it. I liken it to Oktoberfest in Munich, do you think those guys like to wear leiderhosen and sing those goofy songs?

For now be thankful that Calgary has something like the Stampede. It's Canada's largest single festival and it actually does tie into local history. Very few cities in North America can claim that. Yeah, it's a bit goofy with the western wear, etc..but at least it's not the usual jazz or arts festival that every city has, it's something different.
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  #35  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2007, 6:29 AM
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Everyone talks about how young Calgary is, and it is young, but having said that, there's still over 100 years of history, buildings, etc etc. Calgary has a repeated history of trying to rid itself of its past through the demolition of old buildings or even blocks of old buildings. And I'm not talking about a house here or a non-descript building there, it's more the idea of having an area evolve over time, mixing old and new. Calgary, it seems, is all or nothing. Stephen Avenue is a great historical district but outside of that, there aren't a lot of areas that compare. Penny Lane sort of did on a 3/4 block scale but that's gone now. That could have been made into something with more potential or incorporated into the new towers but it seems that starting fresh is the order of the day. That's why I think it is an absolute necessity to not demolish buildings like the ones on 7th ave by 1st SW or the Radio Block (Drum & Monkey, Cherry Lounge buildings etc). To me, that is why Calgary lacks a lot of the 'vibrancy' and eclectic-ness that other cities may have. Everything feels so new or almost new. Many of Vancouver's vibrant areas where built up over time and added to. For instance, Commercial Drive has been evolving for 100 years but isn't just lined with old buildings or 60s-80s buildings. Yaletown is totally opposite of that but reminds me a lot of what Calgary is doing. But what's done is done and Calgary now has to focus on good design (ie: East Village, Vic Park) and let these areas grow over time.
I also think Calgary needs to become less-auto orientated. I know Metro Van is guilty of being worse in this respect, but the transit system here is a world above what I experienced in Calgary.
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  #36  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2007, 6:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Western Spaghetti View Post
I don't think Calgarians should be trying to create some kind of special image for the city. It has to come naturally or it won't work. It's going to take time, and the western/cowboy thing may never entirely go away. Nor should it. I liken it to Oktoberfest in Munich, do you think those guys like to wear leiderhosen and sing those goofy songs?

For now be thankful that Calgary has something like the Stampede. It's Canada's largest single festival and it actually does tie into local history. Very few cities in North America can claim that. Yeah, it's a bit goofy with the western wear, etc..but at least it's not the usual jazz or arts festival that every city has, it's something different.
I don't think Calgary's image will ever change in the eyes of most other Canadians. They'll always think of Albertan's as rednecks or cowboys.
My boss in Vancouver asked me if I wear a cowboy hat or if I hunted.
And he wasn't kidding, either...
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  #37  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2007, 7:43 AM
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I don't think Calgary's image will ever change in the eyes of most other Canadians. They'll always think of Albertan's as rednecks or cowboys.
My boss in Vancouver asked me if I wear a cowboy hat or if I hunted.
And he wasn't kidding, either...
No wonder most Albertan's think the rest of the country is clued out when it comes to how they perceive us. And it's no surprise that a lot of native Albertans wish the rest of the country would stay the hell out of our business.
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  #38  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2007, 8:04 AM
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There it is, the infamous "T" word.. You should know better, Johnnyboy, pot & kettle thing & all ;^)

You asked for city comparisons, I gave you one from Milwaukee, a city I sepnd about three weeks a year in & one of my favorite "1 millionish" US city. Beautiful place, in an interesting state of flux right now. Lots of great entertainment, and a very diverse cross-section of people. Milwaukee has lots of available land, like Calgary, ut unlike Calgary it is bordered on the east by lake Michigan, and huge abandonned warehousing & industrial on the south & west. North Milwaukee is growing like the beltline with some impressive condo developments and very upscale restaurants and night spots. There downtown core does not have many underutilized parcels of land, which has resulted in some excellent densification.
Have you ever been to Madison, WI? For a smaller size city it is supposed to have a lot of great cultural attractions and a great pedestrian friendly area in State Street, which connects Capitol Square with the University of Wisconsin-Madison campus. I've been told it is a very bike friendly place as well. Maybe the combination of having the state capital buildings and university campus so close together along with being built on an isthmus is what makes the place so appealing. I think the relative lack of water is something that hurts Calgary and until relatively recently, we haven't done much to take advantage of what we have. It's amazing we didn't have condo development along the river ages ago. Too bad we had a small group of people worried about shadows limit the development potential along the small amount of riverbank we have in the downtown core.
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  #39  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2007, 1:51 PM
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No wonder most Albertan's think the rest of the country is clued out when it comes to how they perceive us. And it's no surprise that a lot of native Albertans wish the rest of the country would stay the hell out of our business.
It's called regionalism, and westerners attack easterners just as much as easterners attack westerners.

We are all guilty of this.
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  #40  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2007, 3:00 PM
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It's called regionalism, and westerners attack easterners just as much as easterners attack westerners.

We are all guilty of this.
yes we are.
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