Other Manitoba and Saskatchewan Developments

[esquire]

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/m...umas-1.4143982

Apparently a deal has been struck to sell the Omnitrax-owned Hudson Bay Railway from The Pas to Churchill along with the Port of Churchill to the Missinippi Rail consortium of First Nations for $20 million.

I wish them all the best, but with the massive amounts of money needed to maintain and operate such a huge railway it sounds like a very shaky proposition. I know that Mathias Colomb Cree Nation has experience running a railway with Keewatin Railway up to Lynn Lake, but the HBR is a far larger and more capital-intensive enterprise. I hope it works out but I doubt it will.

[bomberjet]

Until there is a strong, long term plan for the north, the railway and port are going to have a hard go. I really don't think anything substantial will happen without federal leadership.

What is the plan for the north as a whole. The world is getting ready to invade the north. We need to be ahead of this game. The first step, permanent roads into the north along Hudson Bay, then a road east top Yellowknife. This is the future. The railway simply won't grow without the road. Kind of counter intuitive. But I don't really see anything else. There's just not enough going on up there.

This would open up both tourism and general business. I bet most of us would take a drive up to Churchill at some point in our lives. Likely more than once. How may go by train? Likely not many of us.

Even if the railway was somehow upgraded to be super reliable and increase speeds, which will cost many, many millions, you need product to ship on those rails.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I really don't think anything substantial will happen without federal leadership.

That's the kicker... a few First Nations simply won't have the means to invest the hundreds of millions of dollars that will ultimately be necessary to bring the line and the port up to snuff. If anything happens with this, it's going to be because the feds willed it and put their money into it.

Since this is a matter of national interest (having a functional arctic seaport), why wouldn't the federal government step up and take it over again? If the feds are going to kick in a pile of money, they might as well assume ownership.

[drew]

Originally Posted by esquire

That's the kicker... a few First Nations simply won't have the means to invest the hundreds of millions of dollars that will ultimately be necessary to bring the line and the port up to snuff. If anything happens with this, it's going to be because the feds willed it and put their money into it.

Since this is a matter of national interest (having a functional arctic seaport), why wouldn't the federal government step up and take it over again? If the feds are going to kick in a pile of money, they might as well assume ownership.

Yeah - this port and the railway need to be nationalized. They are critical infrastructure that should not be left up to private business.

If we are being honest, all this will do is delay the input of federal dollars until such time as the track breaks, or a train derails, or some other issue happens where Missinippi has the leverage to say "without a bail out we cannot service Churchill".

[bomberjet]

My thoughts exactly. I get northern Manitoba is not at the top of the list when it comes to federal politics. But for the long term health of the country, it needs to be. When powers like Russia, US and China are all looking that way, the country needs to defend its lands and rights.

Having a strong presence for the military is step one. Arctic port is a part of that. Making it easily accessible by road is first.

[drew]

It would be a huge mistake to let the rail way go into disrepair.

Sure the maintenance seems high - but imagine the current construction costs that would be required to build a new railway to Churchill from scratch?

It's basically a piece of infrastructure that has to be maintained - because once it's gone, it isn't coming back.

[esquire]

I guess Missinippi's involvement assures that the railway will at least remain usable. I would think their investment is partly motivated by a desire to see freight and passenger railway service continue to the communities in the region, along the lines of what Keewatin Railway Company is doing on the ex-CN line from Cranberry Portage to Lynn Lake.

Who knows about the port, though... the grain terminal there is old and probably in need of some serious upgrades. I'm not sure about the rest of the facilities. That's probably quite a big question mark.

[bomberjet]

One of the issues that needs to be resolved is permafrost and how to keep it permafrost. If there is a need to install insulation or otherwise below the track, its almost a new rebuild at that point.. Biggest problem they have is stability, which factors into speed and safety.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

One of the issues that needs to be resolved is permafrost and how to keep it permafrost. If there is a need to install insulation or otherwise below the track, its almost a new rebuild at that point.. Biggest problem they have is stability, which factors into speed and safety.

This is going to be a major problem moving forward. I read an article about the changes in the north this past weekend and one guy was talking about a bridge that dropped 10 FEET as a result of the melting permafrost! Big problems coming for the north.

[The Bess]

some potash mine projects

http://www.mining.com/potash-junior-...-saskatchewan/

http://www.mining.com/another-potash...-saskatchewan/

http://www.mining.com/bhp-likely-to-...anada-by-2023/

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by esquire

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/m...umas-1.4143982

Apparently a deal has been struck to sell the Omnitrax-owned Hudson Bay Railway from The Pas to Churchill along with the Port of Churchill to the Missinippi Rail consortium of First Nations for $20 million.

I wish them all the best, but with the massive amounts of money needed to maintain and operate such a huge railway it sounds like a very shaky proposition. I know that Mathias Colomb Cree Nation has experience running a railway with Keewatin Railway up to Lynn Lake, but the HBR is a far larger and more capital-intensive enterprise. I hope it works out but I doubt it will.

the line to lynn lake doesn't run all the way to lynn anymore stops at the old fox mine depot due to the town wanting reducilas amount of property tax for the line to be there.. the town of lynn lake is a municipality so it gets shafted on funding that the province would normally give a town if they were a town


northern manitoba has no vision so it festers

[bomberjet]

Lynn Lake should take some initiative and become a town. Just saying.

[esquire]

^ Get off your lazy duffs and make something of yourself, Lynn Lake!

But seriously though, what is even left in that town? Is there still an operating mine there? I remember visiting in the 90s and it seemed half abandoned, with many of the buildings boarded up. Obviously a far cry from the boomtown it was in the 70s when the mine was operating at full speed.

Seems that almost every town in the north has that kind of depressing, forlorn feel... they all have shut down mines or sawmills, with tons of dilapidated buildings left over from the 60s and 70s boom era. The only exception might be the Hydro towns along the Nelson River where they're still riding the wave of construction and development.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

This would open up both tourism and general business. I bet most of us would take a drive up to Churchill at some point in our lives. Likely more than once. How may go by train? Likely not many of us.

The issue that's stopping me from visiting Churchill is not train vs car, but the shopping amenities once I'd get there.

Sure Churchill is not T.O, but... I prefer to visit big cities. In the 70s when we took two trips to the Rocky Mtns. (Banff, Jasper) I was not really excited about camping trips. But in '85 we rode the car to the Twin Cities and I was awed.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

The issue that's stopping me from visiting Churchill is not train vs car, but the shopping amenities once I'd get there.

Sure Churchill is not T.O, but... I prefer to visit big cities.

Churchill is not, and never will be a shopping destination. But that's not why anyone would ever go there... it's a fascinating place with interesting historical and natural attractions.

Churchill and the remote fly-in northern fishing lodges are arguably Manitoba's only true world class tourist attractions.

[bomberjet]

^What Esquire said. Not sure if there was some sarcasm coming through on Churchill being a shopping destination. I apologize for that.

Churchill is purely in the "eco-tourism" department at the moment. In the future, it would be in the Thompson category of "northern hub" type place. At that point, I assume it would have stores like Sobeys or Canadian Tire.

[esquire]

^ The thought of a full on big box store in Churchill is hard to fathom... it's a tiny town with only about 1,000 residents.

I will say, I first visited Churchill in 1987 when HBC ran the remote northern stores that are now operated by Northwest Co. Given that I associated The Bay with the big downtown Winnipeg store, I remember finding it amazing that little old Churchill had its own Bay store.

And here it is!

[bomberjet]

Getty Images no less. In the big leagues!

[esquire]

^ I merely googled that photo. Hats off to you though, Wolfgang Kaehler, wherever you are

[bomberjet]

I always like checking old images vs new. When the only way to tell the date is by the vehicles! I bet that building still looks the same, just more rundown.