The transformation of Vanier

[c_speed3108]

CTV did piece on the transformation of Vanier

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/clip340754#clip340754

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

CTV did piece on the transformation of Vanier

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/clip340754#clip340754

While I agree that Vanier is on the up, I see three major impediments to it achieving Westboro-esque status:

1) Poor housing stock - these aren't the stately old homes in disrepair we're used to seeing
2) Poor transit links
3) As the "last" neighbourhood to gentrify it will be harder to displace the unsavoury elements that have made Vanier their stomping ground for so long.

Also, anyone else notice they used a lot of B roll from businesses that are most definitely in New Edinburgh, not Vanier?

[Mille Sabords]

Originally Posted by gjhall

Also, anyone else notice they used a lot of B roll from businesses that are most definitely in New Edinburgh, not Vanier?

Well, New Edinburgh really is Upper Vanier, as everyone knows...

[ottawatraffic]

Originally Posted by gjhall

While I agree that Vanier is on the up, I see three major impediments to it achieving Westboro-esque status:

1) Poor housing stock - these aren't the stately old homes in disrepair we're used to seeing
2) Poor transit links
3) As the "last" neighbourhood to gentrify it will be harder to displace the unsavoury elements that have made Vanier their stomping ground for so long.

Also, anyone else notice they used a lot of B roll from businesses that are most definitely in New Edinburgh, not Vanier?

The parallels between Vanier and Westboro are quite apparent and I think you're points are way off.

The housing stock is no different in Vanier versus than Westboro prior to gentrification. The lots are bigger in Westboro, so will not see single house being intensified to duplexes in Vanier. But there were hardly in stately homes in Westboro, Wellington West etc.

On transit - Montreal Rd is a major transitway and is identified for long-term transit solutions. Its also much closer to the core, creating more pedestrian and cycling options.

It is far from "the last place to gentrify" - in fact gentrification has been going on the Vanier side of Beechwood over the past 10 years to the point where the predominately french area has become predominately English who cannot afford the other side of Beechwood.

And ZaZa and bridgehead are in an area that would consider more like Vanier as they are not connected at all with New Edinburgh retail blocks

[gjhall]

Perhaps "stately" was the wrong word, but generally pre-gentrification houses in Westboro are larger, made of better quality/desirable finishes (read brick, stucco vs. flat roofs and vinyl siding), and on better lots. That's just part and parcel of the history of pre-war neighbourhoods in Ottawa being more affluent in the west end. Take as a comparison some homes on major streets in both Westboro and Vanier:

Churchill Avenue, Westboro: http://bit.ly/d8yiuU

Marier Avenue, Vanier: http://bit.ly/bTbQQM

As for transit, a bus lane on a city street and an actual Transitway are not the same.

In terms of me calling it the "last place to gentrify" you seem to think I mean it hasn't at all, rather I was referring to the claim in the news piece this thread is based on that it is the last central neighbourhood to be brought up which I think is largely true.

As for ZaZaZa and Bridgehead, the corner of Putnam and Beechwood is territory no New Edinburgher would ever cede to Vanier!

****

This is all to say, simply: I think there has been talk of Vanier's revival for a very long time but there are real challenges that have and continue to hold back its progress toward being a desirable neighbourhood.

[Acajack]

I wish Vanier well but I agree with gjhall that the hill will be steeper to climb than it was for Westboro. I think the photos posted above are a perfect illustration of one of the main reasons for this.

There is some "noble" architecture in Vanier, but nowhere near as much as in the west end. Gentrification (if and when it does happen) for many Vanier streets will likely mean a lot of teardowns/rebuilds, as opposed to renos/refurbishments.

[ottawatraffic]

Originally Posted by gjhall

As for ZaZaZa and Bridgehead, the corner of Putnam and Beechwood is territory no New Edinburgher would ever cede to Vanier!

This is the number one issue Vanier faces - perception. No New Edinburger would visit that corner when the Works/Zazaza was the old snack shack and Bridgehead was a junk shop. The housing on Putnam had drug dealers, hookers living on that block. 15 years ago that was one of they crappiest corners in the city - but now its New Edinburgh in some peoples minds.

The reality is at has all of the characteristics Westboro had 15 years ago, spillover of residents from a wealthy neigbourhood, an influx of investment has already started with projects like Edinburgh Common and the emergence of new businesses on its commercial stretches.

[flar]

Westboro's housing stock is clearly superior to that in Vanier (Vanier wouldn't rate a neighbourhood photo tour from me). Vanier does have an excellent location in terms of being central, but not from transit perspective. Nevertheless, it will gentrify because it's the last centrally located neighbourhood where a house is still affordable to the first time middle class buyer, pushing the lower income population out into townhouses in the burbs.

[McC]

The comparison to Westboro and Wellington West is silly, a quick trip up even busy streets like Holland Ave, Byron Ave, Churchill, to say nothing of streets like Piccadilly, Athlone and Golden will quickly make plain the very different standard of quality of the majority of the housing stock.

If you want to compare Vanier to a west-end neighbourhood, Hintonburg-Mechanicsville is the more apt comparator: similar 'mixed' quality and age of housing stock (lots of rickety clapboard/vinyl boxes with flat roofs and several additions of dubious stability, often multi-unit -- and some gorgeous old brick jobs, and new builds and renos), smaller lots, less greenery/trees on the streets, similar social ills, an often shabby main street, similar distance from downtown, and much lower prices than the neighbouring hoods.

The gentrification of Hintonburg-Mechanicsville* has been and will be much later/slower than Wellington West and Westboro because of the reasons Acajack and gjhall identified above, and I think it is (and will continue to be) similar for Vanier.

It will happen: North Vanier, aka "Beechwood Village" has already changed a lot in recent years, and Overbrook with it's generally-higher-quality housing stock and more treed lots, etc. But it will take time, especially since City Council has killed any possibility of better transit on Rideau-Montreal for 1, 2, 3? generations.

*ADDED NOTE: I am referring to Hintonburg north of Wellington, it is a very different story south of Wellington, where the old houses and greener streets look much more like the Wellington West and Civic Hospital areas, and the values are accordingly much higher.

[c_speed3108]

I agree that Hintonburg-Mechanicsville is a much more sound example for where Vanier will hopefully be in say 15 years or something.

On housing stock. Vanier doesn't have a ton of great options for individual fix-up but it has many awesome opportunities to tear-downs which is probably more attractive to bigger developers....and many people do like new homes anyway that is why places like Orleans continue to grow and grow.

Looking at areas like North River Rd/West Vanier I would say this seems to be the form the redevelopment is taking: New buildings, rather than fix-ups.

On transit. Vanier doesn't have any higher-order transit and won't likely any time soon, but I doubt this will really matter. It is one of the best served areas of the city in terms of local and crosstown routes. They are all direct to downtown/rideau and all good frequency. The only one that is a bit weird is the 5. The 7, 12, 14 and 18 in overbrook all work well.

Also on transit I got reading the annex to the transportation master plan the other day and noticed something interesting. One of the things listed in the plan was bus lanes on Bathgate! Then I read that they want create bus lanes on Montreal rd out to Bathgate and extend the bus lane hours on Rideau street. This leads me to believe this will be during light rail construction bus route downtown from the east end. From Blair to Bathgate to Montreal Rd and then into Charlie Foxtrot on Rideau Street. Now the curious thing is what will happen to such a route once the train is up and running. Having previously lived in the far east end I have my doubts politically speaking all express routes will be toast. They will certainly have to change form since the transitway will be gone, but given the make-up of council and if anything the suburbs will have more votes my then, it seems unlikely they will be completely gone. The form they take is what will be debatable.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by McC

If you want to compare Vanier to a west-end neighbourhood, Hintonburg-Mechanicsville is the more apt comparator: similar 'mixed' quality and age of housing stock (lots of rickety clapboard/vinyl boxes with flat roofs and several additions of dubious stability, often multi-unit -- and some gorgeous old brick jobs, and new builds and renos), smaller lots, less greenery/trees on the streets, similar social ills, an often shabby main street, similar distance from downtown, and much lower prices than the neighbouring hoods.

The gentrification of Hintonburg-Mechanicsville has been and will be much later/slower than Wellington West and Westboro because of the reasons Acajack and gjhall identified above, and I think it is (and will continue to be) similar for Vanier.

And Vanier's gentrification is/will be even slower that Hintonburg-Mechanicsville's, since Vanier is heavily stigmatized as THE "bad part of town" in Ottawa.

[harls]

Originally Posted by McC

If you want to compare Vanier to a west-end neighbourhood, Hintonburg-Mechanicsville is the more apt comparator: similar 'mixed' quality and age of housing stock (lots of rickety clapboard/vinyl boxes with flat roofs and several additions of dubious stability, often multi-unit -- and some gorgeous old brick jobs, and new builds and renos), smaller lots, less greenery/trees on the streets, similar social ills, an often shabby main street, similar distance from downtown, and much lower prices than the neighbouring hoods.

You've also described the residential area of downtown Hull.. although there are not that many gorgeous brick jobs (perhaps closer to the Museum of Civilization).

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Acajack

And Vanier's gentrification is/will be even slower that Hintonburg-Mechanicsville's, since Vanier is heavily stigmatized as THE "bad part of town" in Ottawa.

Well usually gentrification starts with a good external paint job. The Vanier women of virtue should do the same with their makeup.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

Well usually gentrification starts with a good external paint job. The Vanier women of virtue should do the same with their makeup.

Can vinyl siding be painted?

[flar]

You can paint vinyl siding, but it can go horribly wrong without the proper paint.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Can vinyl siding be painted?

They're too cheap to buy sillicone implants now?

But yes, my parent's actually had they're stone and vinyl siding house redone. And they kept the vinyl and painted it, I was actually surprised how nice it looked for the price.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by gjhall

While I agree that Vanier is on the up, I see three major impediments to it achieving Westboro-esque status:

1) Poor housing stock - these aren't the stately old homes in disrepair we're used to seeing

Mentally remove the century homes and the recent condo projects from New Edinburgh. What are you left with in housing stock? Basically Vanier. I didn't notice this until after I moved out of New Edinburgh, but it's true.

2) Poor transit links

Transit is on par with the Glebe and Old Ottawa South, and actually better than the local service in the gentrified west end once you're more than about 1km from the western transitway stations.

3) As the "last" neighbourhood to gentrify it will be harder to displace the unsavoury elements that have made Vanier their stomping ground for so long.

Judging by how unsavoury certain post-war/inside-greenbelt suburbs are getting, I think the displacement is already started in earnest.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by flar

Westboro's housing stock is clearly superior to that in Vanier (Vanier wouldn't rate a neighbourhood photo tour from me).

Really? Ever been on Taber? Dagmar? Those leafy streets south of Montreal and west of the Parkway? There are also some very sweet pockets between Montreal and McArthur (with not-so-sweet pockets cheek by jowel.) The views from Michel Circle are unbelievable. (Oddly, only the similar areas of the Island of Hull and parts of Hintonburg also have views of Parliament Hill, the only single-family residential areas with that attraction.)

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by McC

The gentrification of Hintonburg-Mechanicsville* has been and will be much later/slower than Wellington West and Westboro because of the reasons Acajack and gjhall identified above, and I think it is (and will continue to be) similar for Vanier.

It's already started in earnest in both areas, though. Some of the infill in H-M has been quite innovative, and you could have knocked me over when I found out there was an art gallery, of all things, next to the Carleton!

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by gjhall

As for ZaZaZa and Bridgehead, the corner of Putnam and Beechwood is territory no New Edinburgher would ever cede to Vanier!

That would be because, other than a few irredentists, no New Edinburgher would let you forget that Putman is technically in Lindenlea!

Speaking of, that area, too, around Putman, Bertrand, Vaughan, either side of Springfield Road not including the part in the former Rockcliffe Park, has a great deal of "Vanier" housing stock that has been prettified. That movement has long since spread south of Beechwood.