Rideau Street: A Tale of Lost Opportunities

[drawarc]

That stretch of Rideau is sketchy, but it was much worse when it had those glass enclosures. There also used to be a Taco Bell, Burger King, and Dairy Queen on the street, along with McDonald's.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by MountainView

If you want to catch a bus after midnight, it's really the only place to go. Also, McDonald's has that back door that acts as a short-cut to get to Rideau from George. I use it every time and never stop to buy food. I'm certainly not the only one who does this.

They should close the back entrance at 10 pm IMO and force them in via Rideau Street...maybe that will help out?

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

They should close the back entrance at 10 pm IMO and force them in via Rideau Street...maybe that will help out?

The back entrance is not the problem. It also saves people in the market from a longer walk to the bus stop on Rideau.

[rocketphish]

City staff ponders density transfer for Rideau community design plan

By Alex Robinson
Ottawa East News, Jun 17, 2015

If a new community design plan is approved as proposed, Rideau Street could see towers as tall as 25 storeys popping up east of King Edward Avenue.

City staff has unveiled its preliminary revision of the Uptown Rideau Community Design Plan, a planning document that recommends densities and heights developers should build to. Staff presented the plan at Lowertown Community Association meeting on June 8.

The new design plan would recommend a nine-storey cap on buildings along the corridor, but a policy called a density transfer would allow developers to shift some of the volume on their properties to build higher.

This could mean developers would be able to build as high as 25 storeys on some of the area’s larger lots.

“That was quite an area of concern for us,” said Liz Bernstein, the president of the Lowertown Community Association.

“That notion of the density transfer enables the really, really tall buildings. I don’t understand the rationale behind it.”

Residents have been against building high-rise buildings along the street, as was recommended in the original CDP, which was finished in 2005. The original document recommended that only buildings from three to six storeys should be built along the corridor.

Developers have, however, successfully challenged these parameters at the Ontario Municipal Board on a number of occasions, leading to a revision of the plan.

The plan has been updated over the last year in talks with representatives from land owners, community associations and developers.

Developers Trinity Development Group and Richcraft Group were both consulted and have applied to build high-rise buildings along the corridor. Both have slightly scaled back their original proposals to coincide with the density transfer policy, but have not waited for the new CDP to be finalized before doing so.

Rideau-Vanier Coun. Mathieu Fleury said the exceptions of the density transfer policy might be able to provide some certainty the old CDP did not.

“We don’t want any high-rises there, but at the same time, the OMB has opened up our plan as it wasn’t sealed tight,” he said. “It didn’t explain the anomalies for that corridor.”

The community association is pushing for a full public consultation on the process going forward.

“We requested a community consultation and that it not be an open house, which doesn’t feel like a real conversation,” Bernstein said.

http://www.ottawacommunitynews.com/n...y-design-plan/

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

City staff ponders density transfer for Rideau community design plan

By Alex Robinson
Ottawa East News, Jun 17, 2015

If a new community design plan is approved as proposed, Rideau Street could see towers as tall as 25 storeys popping up east of King Edward Avenue.

City staff has unveiled its preliminary revision of the Uptown Rideau Community Design Plan, a planning document that recommends densities and heights developers should build to. Staff presented the plan at Lowertown Community Association meeting on June 8.

The new design plan would recommend a nine-storey cap on buildings along the corridor, but a policy called a density transfer would allow developers to shift some of the volume on their properties to build higher.

This could mean developers would be able to build as high as 25 storeys on some of the area’s larger lots.

“That was quite an area of concern for us,” said Liz Bernstein, the president of the Lowertown Community Association.

“That notion of the density transfer enables the really, really tall buildings. I don’t understand the rationale behind it.”

Residents have been against building high-rise buildings along the street, as was recommended in the original CDP, which was finished in 2005. The original document recommended that only buildings from three to six storeys should be built along the corridor.

Developers have, however, successfully challenged these parameters at the Ontario Municipal Board on a number of occasions, leading to a revision of the plan.

The plan has been updated over the last year in talks with representatives from land owners, community associations and developers.

Developers Trinity Development Group and Richcraft Group were both consulted and have applied to build high-rise buildings along the corridor. Both have slightly scaled back their original proposals to coincide with the density transfer policy, but have not waited for the new CDP to be finalized before doing so.

Rideau-Vanier Coun. Mathieu Fleury said the exceptions of the density transfer policy might be able to provide some certainty the old CDP did not.

“We don’t want any high-rises there, but at the same time, the OMB has opened up our plan as it wasn’t sealed tight,” he said. “It didn’t explain the anomalies for that corridor.”

The community association is pushing for a full public consultation on the process going forward.

“We requested a community consultation and that it not be an open house, which doesn’t feel like a real conversation,” Bernstein said.

http://www.ottawacommunitynews.com/n...y-design-plan/

I wouldn't want too much density on Rideau east of King Edward at the moment because the lack of rapid transit access... if/when Rideau-Montreal LRT becomes a thing, though, build baby build.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I wouldn't want too much density on Rideau east of King Edward at the moment because the lack of rapid transit access... if/when Rideau-Montreal LRT becomes a thing, though, build baby build.

No hope of that in the next half century. On the other hand, if the idea was presented to tier Rideau Street (two levels) to handle extra traffic, you never know. I just look at how the automobile is still dominating our transportation planning of the future and how transit (despite our investment in the Confederation Line) still is not really a priority. I see it over and over again as we plan road expansions everywhere without rapid transit in mind and that these plans will actually work against the rapid transit plans that we do have in the works.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

No hope of that in the next half century. On the other hand, if the idea was presented to tier Rideau Street (two levels) to handle extra traffic, you never know. I just look at how the automobile is still dominating our transportation planning of the future and how transit (despite our investment in the Confederation Line) still is not really a priority. I see it over and over again as we plan road expansions everywhere without rapid transit in mind and that these plans will actually work against the rapid transit plans that we do have in the works.

Lol, Ottawa is too cheap to do that, or they would have done that for the truck tunnel by now.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I wouldn't want too much density on Rideau east of King Edward at the moment because the lack of rapid transit access... if/when Rideau-Montreal LRT becomes a thing, though, build baby build.

As a former resident of five different apartments in Sandy Hill, and one condo in the Market, I feel qualified to say that lack of rapid transit access from King Edward to Cummings Bridge is a non-issue. Even when I lived at Rideau & Charlotte near Cummings Bridge it was a 12 minute walk from rapid transit. Lowertown Community Association and Action Sandy Hill are a bunch of wankers that don't respect their neighbourhood's importance as an instensification target in a cash-strapped and a rapidly expanding municipality. I'm all for preserving the wonderful traditional side streets of Sandy Hill and Lowertown and limiting height along them and even controlling the quality of infill, but limiting height on Rideau Street is a lost cause...more than that, it's an irresponsible cause. That strip is a VERY logical area for intensification. The sewers and services were recently upgraded to support this. There are already several high-rise buildings on this strip. Putting more will not drastically affect the neighbourhood. Shadows are not a major issue from tall slender high-rises. Transit is not an issue when you can walk to the new Rideau station in under 12 minutes. The traditional side streets in the neighbourhood are beautiful right now with mature trees, heritage houses, and some fairly iconic architecture in spots. A 25-36 story condo on Rideau will not change any of this.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Harley613

As a former resident of five different apartments in Sandy Hill, and one condo in the Market, I feel qualified to say that lack of rapid transit access from King Edward to Cummings Bridge is a non-issue. Even when I lived at Rideau & Charlotte near Cummings Bridge it was a 12 minute walk from rapid transit. Lowertown Community Association and Action Sandy Hill are a bunch of wankers that don't respect their neighbourhood's importance as an instensification target in a cash-strapped and a rapidly expanding municipality. I'm all for preserving the wonderful traditional side streets of Sandy Hill and Lowertown and limiting height along them and even controlling the quality of infill, but limiting height on Rideau Street is a lost cause...more than that, it's an irresponsible cause. That strip is a VERY logical area for intensification. The sewers and services were recently upgraded to support this. There are already several high-rise buildings on this strip. Putting more will not drastically affect the neighbourhood. Shadows are not a major issue from tall slender high-rises. Transit is not an issue when you can walk to the new Rideau station in under 12 minutes. The traditional side streets in the neighbourhood are beautiful right now with mature trees, heritage houses, and some fairly iconic architecture in spots. A 25-36 story condo on Rideau will not change any of this.

I agree with basically everything you said.. except that, given the huge number of developable sites very near (<500m) rapid transit that aren't getting developed, I'd prefer to restrict high-level development specifically to those sites to increase their value and get them going faster.

I'd rather see real progress on urbanizing the Hurdman-Blair corridor come before upsizing uptown Rideau. Long term obviously I'd want both.

[OTSkyline]

My favorite part was "That notion of the density transfer enables the really, really tall buildings"... Since when is 25 stories "really really tall" in a downtown arterial of a city of 1M+ people? lol

Yet they are building 50, 60, 70, even 80 story towers in Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary and heck, even Edmonton!

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

“We don’t want any high-rises there, but at the same time, the OMB has opened up our plan as it wasn’t sealed tight,” he said. “It didn’t explain the anomalies for that corridor.”

Who is this "we" he is speaking for?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I wouldn't want too much density on Rideau east of King Edward at the moment because the lack of rapid transit access... if/when Rideau-Montreal LRT becomes a thing, though, build baby build.

Why not do them... simultaneously?

If the additional tax revenue from such development were dedicated, for a period of time, to a specific Rideau-Montreal transit fund, the thing could be financed quickly.

Instead, any additional revenue that the city might see from any new high-rise along this corridor, will be used to subsidize the god-awful sprawl on the fringes.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Even when I lived at Rideau & Charlotte near Cummings Bridge it was a 12 minute walk from rapid transit.

To which rapid transit?

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

To which rapid transit?

Mackenzie King Bridge. It's a 1.59 km walk from Rideau & Charlotte.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Mackenzie King Bridge. It's a 1.59 km walk from Rideau & Charlotte.

At average human walking speed (5km/h) that's 19 minutes.

Though, with the Confederation Line moving Rideau station to be directly on Rideau Street, that distance will decline to 1.36km, 16 minute walk at average walking speed.

Now, at average bicycle speed (20km/h), that trip is 5 minutes declining to 4.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

At average human walking speed (5km/h) that's 19 minutes.

Though, with the Confederation Line moving Rideau station to be directly on Rideau Street, that distance will decline to 1.36km, 16 minute walk at average walking speed.

Now, at average bicycle speed (20km/h), that trip is 5 minutes declining to 4.

Given the high number of traffic signals and pedestrian traffic, the effective walking distance is about 25 minutes to Mackenzie King from the eastern part of Rideau Street.

[lrt's friend]

I get nervous when we start thinking of transit in terms of the Confederation Line only. Our transit system needs to be much more diverse than that. Back in the streetcar days, the streetcars only ran as far as Rideau and Charlotte. If we were planning the streetcars today, we would turn the streetcars at the Rideau Centre (effectively that is exactly what we are doing) and say that is good enough to serve the whole Rideau corridor. We are going backwards. Too many experts involved, too many distance circles being drawn on maps, not enough consideration of real customer service.

[eltodesukane]

And the Confederation Line is basically just replacing the transitway in the same location.
It is not a new transportation line, not a new corridor, not a new transit axis.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Given the high number of traffic signals and pedestrian traffic, the effective walking distance is about 25 minutes to Mackenzie King from the eastern part of Rideau Street.

It's actually faster to walk on not-Rideau Street: I find taking a street a couple blocks north or south gives you more places to safely cross at "longitudes" where, on Rideau, you'd be held up by lights and turning traffic.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I get nervous when we start thinking of transit in terms of the Confederation Line only. Our transit system needs to be much more diverse than that. Back in the streetcar days, the streetcars only ran as far as Rideau and Charlotte. If we were planning the streetcars today, we would turn the streetcars at the Rideau Centre (effectively that is exactly what we are doing) and say that is good enough to serve the whole Rideau corridor. We are going backwards. Too many experts involved, too many distance circles being drawn on maps, not enough consideration of real customer service.

This, right here.

I keep seeing so many examples of features of the OC Transpo system, from the design of routes to the placement of stops to the information available (or not) at stations and shelters, that can only have been dreamt up by people who don't actually use transit in their workaday lives.