Lets review
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280
Lol, this whole line again?
I don't doubt there were white starving artists living in Logan Square 10 years ago, but I do doubt that the area was considered any more promising than Humbolt Park or Bronzeville is now.
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Now here is your original quote to which my response and the response of other forumers was directed I wanted to repost this before it gets lost in the smokescreen you will lay down in your furious attempt to illustrate that you couldn't possibly be wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhereman
10 years ago no one would have imagined that Logan Square would be anything but a heavily hispanic, working class, area.
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So which past is accurate 1. That LS was never conceived as anything but a "heavily hispanic, working class, area." or 2. promising? It cannot be both.
Multiple forumers have attested or illustrated evidence that your statement above is wrong. It won't matter because you will:
1. deny the evidence in favor of your incontrovertible opinion;
2. change the argument or the terms of the argument in an attempt to deny that you are in error.
We all just witnessed this tact in your furious attempts at reality denial in the Milwaukee-Chicago thread to no avail. Its seems in your mind historical fact or evidence are irrelevant only your opinion counts as fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhereman
Hell, you just said you moved to Uptown then. Did you think Uptown had similar potential? If so, then you are 50/50 on your predictions because Logan Square has taken off while Uptown has continued to run in circles and develop in fits and starts.
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No. I moved to Uptown for a number of reasons none of which where tied to speculation on the state of the future real estate market. But nice way to jump to conclusions.
See number 2 above.
If you must now why I chose UT vs LS back in 1998 it really could be written that the apt chose me. I was not making much money 10/hr at the time and I found a cheap apt for about 400/month that allowed me to have my dogs. That combination happened to be in UT not LS. Pure chance; not as you attempt to suggest a comment on my future expectation of real estate values (
see #2 above)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhereman
Even so, we see the exact same "signs" you claim to have seen in Logan Square 10 years ago in places like Pilsen, Bridgeport, and Bronzeville right now. I am guess than any of those three areas might take off, but any combination of them may or may not end up doing so. Fact is I have many friends who are looking at places in those areas and moving there, so how is what I'm saying absurd? I'm not claiming Logan Square was Lawndale 10 years ago.
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No you claimed originally :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhereman
10 years ago no one would have imagined that Logan Square would be anything but a heavily hispanic, working class, area.
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But now you have changed that to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhereman
I'm claiming it was like Humbolt Park or Pilsen (away from UIC) or Bridgeport or Bronzeville are now. It was just another affordable neighborhood with small elements of the upper classes moving in to take advantage of the prices.[
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See #2 above
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhereman
There was no way of telling it would be the next "big thing" or it would have developed in the 1990's and not the 2000's. In other words, if it was so obviously the next big thing, then why didn't it develop 20 years ago instead of over the last 10?
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Because real estate markets are not academic abstractions that change immediately to a change in conditions. Real estate markets have a notorious amount of friction. Neighborhood transformations take time due to the underlying nature of the goods involved. Finite demand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhereman
Finally, I think you and I have different definitions of what Logan Square is. I think you are imagining the California and Western Stops to be a true part of Logan Square. Those are the fringes in my opinion and often more akin to Bucktown or Wicker than Logan. Logan Square to me applies to the immediate surroundings of the square itself (maybe a 5 block radius) and everything South along the bolevards to Palmer. These areas were certainly NOT gentrifying 10 years ago (unless you count a few starving artists here and there as gentrification) as they are just beginning to gentrify now. I would know as I live there and am watching the transformation. The heart of Logan Square is not the wasteland to the South along Milwaukee, it is the Square itself and Milwaukee North to Diversey. Everything North of the square is still heavily dominated by hispanics and has almost nothing in the way of the businesses you would associate with gentrification. However, especially over the past 6 months, these buisinesses have begun creeping north from their original colony around Longman and Eagle and setting up along Milwaukee as well. But none of that was there 10 years ago because it's just getting there now. So no, I highly doubt you were standing outside of a bodega at Milwaukee and Diversey in 2000 saying "gee this is a hot neighborhood" because the area was kinda a shit hole then and is just starting to change in earnest now. I don't doubt that you might have been Western and Milwaukee and said "I bet this will be a nice area some day", but that's a different story.
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Boy you like to make presumptions. In 1994 I took a gun off a guy at the intersection of Western / Armitage who pulled on me...mere blocks from Milw and Ashland.
And yes I used to go to burrito stands along Milw between fullerton and Diversey as early as the 2000's...you are right I didn't say "gee this is a hot neighborhood" (
see #2 above once again) I said to myself.."this could be a pretty cool neighborhood ..."
and the coup de grace
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhereman
Again, I can find you quotes like this about almost any border line neighborhood. Hell, you know how long people have been saying this about Rogers Park and Uptown? The fact is, though it was obvious Logan Square would eventually redevelop given on going urban trends, it was not obvious that it was the next "anointed one". Period.
I could say the exact same thing these writers said about Logan about Bronzeville, Pilsen, Bridgeport, or Humbolt Park now, but still have no idea which areas will actually develop and which will have to wait 25 more years. In fact, I know I've seen similar quotes to the one posted by Paytonc that were written about Garfield Park ten years ago and we all know how that turned out.
You are all subjecting this to confirmation bias. You are going back and saying "one person said people were buying homes along the bolevard therefore obviously Logan Square was the next big thing!" when that means absolutely nothing because people have said the exact same thing about all sorts of neighborhoods that haven't gone the same route as the square.
Finally my point still stands that almost everything that has developed in terms of businesses in the Square has happened over the past 10 years. Lula was probably the first about 10 years ago while most didn't open until the last 5-6 years and they are just now venturing north of the Square itself.
I'm not sure how you are all missing my point so badly. I haven't once said Logan Square had 0 yuppies in it 10 years ago. I haven't once said not a single person would dared to suggest that the Square had a bright future. I'm saying that it was FAR from obvious that it would be the next hot neighborhood. It was another mediocre area with potential just like the half dozen other areas I've referenced. No one could have predicted how it would take off after 2000 or it would have taken off before 2000 because people would have just poured money into it in the 1990's if it was such a sure bet. Finnally there was NO signifigant demographic change in Logan Square between the 1990 and 2000 census. In 2000 the area was still 65% hispanic. It was 66% hispanic in 1990. I'm not buying there was some signifigant demographic shift underway when there was almost no change in the demographic breakdown of the area in the 1990's. The shift did not begin in earnest until after 2000.
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Yes we are all missing the boat. You of course have the only boat. See #1 and #2 above. Case closed