Old Town/Chinatown News

[MarkDaMan]

Saturday Market

Saturday Market is edging closer to crossing Naito Parkway to its new home in Waterfront Park. The council on Wednesday accepted $1 million from the Portland Development Commission to help start designs to fit the market into the city's waterfront plan. The market has been under the Burnside Bridge near Skidmore Fountain for decades, but its space has been studied for months as part of an attempt to polish Old Town around Ankeny Plaza.
The market, held most weekends on a patchwork of leased land under and around the bridge, stood in the middle of an area that city planners decided could be better used. Plans are still in the works to figure just what to do around Ankeny Plaza.

Wednesday's vote means Saturday Market could be on the riverside in February 2008. That would make way for Mercy Corps to rebuild the market's Skidmore Building for its new headquarters, a much talked about move to spruce up the neighborhood.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/o...150.xml&coll=7

[MarkDaMan]

^I can't imagine it costing more than a million bucks to move the market, how the hell is the city going to spend a million dollars planning what the new market will look like?

[urbanlife]

actually I don't think that area should lose its low income look per se. With the UofO openning over there, it would be nice to see that area be more available to a younger market of people. Even young first time buyers. With that, the cost of openning a store or a small business should be cheaper over there to help stimulate a new market for the city.

Young people can put up with alot of negative crap if they think it will better them in the future.

[Drmyeyes]

I'm not sure it's such a good idea to move Saturday Market away from Ankeny, but it's not hard to see the attraction of the area for new construction. That area with the fountain, cobblestones, city blocks open to the light, and public transit running throuh it is the closest thing the city has to european open market setting. That's exactly the kind of place something like Saturday Market or a farmers market should be. Things have to change sometimes though. The dynamic will definitely be different across the street over at waterfront.

A million bucks to move Saturday Market doesn't sound too surprizing. Think about it; prepping the site, surfacing, electical and plumbing, vendor waste disposal facilities, restrooms, lighting, and more I'm sure. A million "...to help start designs..." definitely makes one wonder.

[urbanlife]

would be nice to see them move forward with a farmer's market in old town. I have always liked that idea.

[MarkDaMan]

^you mean public market? There is a farmers market in the ecotrust parking lot up just blocks from OTCT...a public market would bring vitality to the area daily as opposed to a weekly market for a few hours...but it would make sense, to me anyway, to relocate the Saturday Farmer's Market from PSU's park blocks to an area next to the Saturday Market...it could be an all weekend farmers market...that would be sweet!

[bvpcvm]

i'm glad the public market came up, because i've been thinking about it lately. i don't remember if anyone posted it, but there was a story in the tribune last week about james beard and his push to get the public market. apparently, his current top contender is union station. the article, IIRC, said that amtrak doesn't use very much of the space in the station. interestingly, it implied that the long term plan is for amtrak to leave union station and move to the east side - whatever that means. anyway, back to the market, i suppose the train station wouldn't be that bad a location, but it occurred to me the other day that it really ought to be at the crossroads of downtown. and honestly, even given the max on the mall, the crossroads of downtown, as far as i'm concerned, is 10th and morrison, where the max and the streetcar meet. because, let's face it, 90% of customers of any public market will be from the central city. at 10th and morrison you'd get customers from the pearl, nw, goose hollow, psu, sowa, irvington/etc. so... i wonder if there's been any discussion of putting the market in the galleria? seems like an obvious idea to me.

[robbobpdx]

Originally Posted by bvpcvm

i'm glad the public market came up, because i've been thinking about it lately. i don't remember if anyone posted it, but there was a story in the tribune last week about james beard and his push to get the public market. apparently, his current top contender is union station. the article, IIRC, said that amtrak doesn't use very much of the space in the station. interestingly, it implied that the long term plan is for amtrak to leave union station and move to the east side - whatever that means. anyway, back to the market, i suppose the train station wouldn't be that bad a location, but it occurred to me the other day that it really ought to be at the crossroads of downtown. and honestly, even given the max on the mall, the crossroads of downtown, as far as i'm concerned, is 10th and morrison, where the max and the streetcar meet. because, let's face it, 90% of customers of any public market will be from the central city. at 10th and morrison you'd get customers from the pearl, nw, goose hollow, psu, sowa, irvington/etc. so... i wonder if there's been any discussion of putting the market in the galleria? seems like an obvious idea to me.

THANK YOU !!! I totally agree, and have felt for a very long time that the Galleria is a much better location for a public market. At the cross-roads of the streetcar AND MAX, and only blocks from the Pearl and in the West End. Plus it seemed like it would tie in so nicely to the culinary institute, which is a tenant in the building. I think there was a thread some time ago about the Galleria being developed as a 5-star hotel, which in lieu of a public market there would be a great idea. I still favor the public market idea at Galleria, though. Thank you for noting that also !!!!

[robbobpdx]

BTW, on the oldtown development side, and also the Union Station . . . I love Union Station. Seattle has been doing a lot of remodeling on their King Street Station, and Union Station in Portland is quite grand (well, maybe getting a bit tired, but still grand). I like it best as a train station, though. I think it would be great to have shops there, and maybe some sort of market, but really I would have thought it would be a logical place to join parts of MAX, the streetcar, buses, etc. It sort of has, but not quite. It's several blocks to the streetcar, and several blocks to the MAX. Well that may change when the PSU extension along 5th/6th gets completed. Still, I think Union Station would / should be a transit hub. Trains from Eugene to Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver, BC could be running even more frequently than they are now, and ridership is up quite a bit, last I heard.

No offense to the idea of a public market at Union Station -- like I said I love the building. I just feel Galleria is a better location overall for a market, with instant customers, from downtown workers, to MAX or streetcar riders, to Pearl and West end residents.

I hope they save Union Station for trains, or at least I hope they don't move the trains away from there. That's our history, and I think we would be very sorry to do a move like that and later realize it was not the right thing to do !

[bvpcvm]

my impression from the article was that at the very least union station would be turned into shops - that's if they ever move the trains somewhere else. they also made the point in the article that there's a fair amount of unused space (the baggage check, which is closed, for example), which could be used. i agree that union station should be a transit hub, but it's kind of out of the way and not on a direct route elsewhere - you have to jog up from the steel bridge to get there and there's no convenient E-W route (glisan, i guess, but that's 2 or 3 blocks south).

re: the galleria, actually the galleria would be an ideal space, but i think anywhere on the max line from pioneer square to the galleria would work. so maybe the zell building, if it ever gets redeveloped.

[pdxstreetcar]

I'm not too crazy about the idea of putting the public market in Union Station at least not until (or if) the train station moves to the Eastside in the Rose Quarter. It might be a good location for one but I think it would be better to build a public market in one of the parking lots near the station (by Greyhound). I'd just like to see the station stay a station and keep its spacious and luxurious waiting room for rail passengers and to remain a gateway to the city for rail travelers. That said it would be nice to see some more retail at the station but nothing like a large market that overshadows the building's role as a railroad station.

Apparently the long term plans are to have passenger trains stay on the eastside of the river so as to speed up serve between Seattle and Eugene and avoid the slow Steel Bridge and St. John's RR Bridge. The station would be at the foot of the Steel Bridge in the Rose Quarter. I think it is only a long term vision which would be considered many years from now.

Its too bad we dont have the old Public Market building on the waterfront which was torn down in the late 60s, if it had lasted a little longer I'm sure it would have been appreciated as a real asset of value to the city and maybe converted back into a public market.


There was a recent alternative site to put the Public Market in the Beaux-Arts Federal Building at Hoyt & Broadway. Not sure if thats still a possible site for the market.

Whatever the plan for the public market is, I think it is critical to not over build it into some monument (as nice as it would be) so that the current vendors can afford the space and for the market to keep its slightly seedy and laid back feel.

[EastPDX]

... makes sense to me. Moving it to the Union Station area doesn't since the access issues are not resolved.

I would hope a move across the river into the former Memorial Coliseum, that is also a "Memorial Station" for High Speed Rail is studied. The MC is close enough to the river for water taxis and will have MAX and streetcar near by. Maybe the glass walls could be louvered to allow air in the summer and closed for winter time.

Making the MC into a rail transit hub down the road with the Farmers Market also near by seems to solve a few issue in the next 10-15 years.

Move the Union Station and its surrounds into a residential/commerical area like the Pearl and retain the shell of the station for a Museum for Portland rail and maritime history.

EP

[robbobpdx]

Originally Posted by pdxstreetcar

I'm not too crazy about the idea of putting the public market in Union Station at least not until (or if) the train station moves to the Eastside in the Rose Quarter. It might be a good location for one but I think it would be better to build a public market in one of the parking lots near the station (by Greyhound). I'd just like to see the station stay a station and keep its spacious and luxurious waiting room for rail passengers and to remain a gateway to the city for rail travelers. That said it would be nice to see some more retail at the station but nothing like a large market that overshadows the building's role as a railroad station.

. . . .

Its too bad we dont have the old Public Market building on the waterfront which was torn down in the late 60s, if it had lasted a little longer I'm sure it would have been appreciated as a real asset of value to the city and maybe converted back into a public market.


There was a recent alternative site to put the Public Market in the Beaux-Arts Federal Building at Hoyt & Broadway. Not sure if thats still a possible site for the market.

Whatever the plan for the public market is, I think it is critical to not over build it into some monument (as nice as it would be) so that the current vendors can afford the space and for the market to keep its slightly seedy and laid back feel.

Excellent comments IMO. As I noted in an earlier post, I too would like the train station to remain a train station. I also agree that overbuilding a public market would not have the right feel. Neither would having a "new" building. I guess that's why they're looking at historic ones . . . to get that old and seedy feel.

So again, I feel the Galleria is best for this (probably should be including this on a public market thread . . . oh well). It wouldn't be overbuilt, it has transit access next to it on two sides, and within a block for the other directions of the streetcar and MAX, and it's in a dense urban area that would seem to have lots of customers (important for the merchants).

The train station actually reminds me EXACTLY of the old public market building (which ended up the Oregon Journal building before it was torn down -- located where Waterfront park is now).

Imagine, Portland once had a HUGE grand public market on the waterfront. For decades it was hugely popular, but eventually it sort of failed (not sure why).

When it was torn down it was undoubtedly seen as "progress." The reason I feel its similar to the train station is I feel we should preserve our heritage and the train station being kept as a train station would help do that. In the meantime as a train station, and if trains end up on the East side I do agree that Memorial Coliseum would be a great place for a new grand station -- hopefully with lots of access from mass transit as well as for taxis to pick up or drop off passengers etc.

I would hope Union Station could still be a transportation hub of some kind, and having shops or merchants would seem like a fine idea to be included. It would be very sad if it just sad dormant.

What a shame to lose this history, if it's not kept as a train station, but I do understand the slowness of the Willamette River crossings. However, I always thought the MAIN problems with high speed (passenger) rail service was that freight trains dominate the rails (they own them), and so have priority over access . . . plus there are many "crossings" along the way, and the trains have to slow down each time they come to another crossing.

I'm glad people are looking at uses for the Union Station -- especially if it stops being a train station. Just because I like the train station so much, I would rather have better bridges for the trains to cross rather than moving the station to the other side of the river and abandoning the grand historic building.

[westsider]

Why does everyone have a love affair with the galleria? I would'nt care if they tore it down, it would be one less bum magnet.

[pdxman]

I don't know if you'd want to tear it down, but it does struggle. They need to attract a big tenant to get the place to be a destination. Its such a pretty building and it fits in perfect with that area DT. I must say tho that the area from about 1st to 13th and morrison to burnside is a gigantic dead zone when it comes to activity--other than the homeless.

[Drmyeyes]

I think the galleria is good for it's white terra cotta facing and simple, classic ornamentation. But calling it a "bum magnet"? Hey, that's either a flippant, callous joke or a clueless remark. Guess I'm downtown mostly later in the day, but I never even see bums around or in it. Over across at Peterson's, o.k., but not at the galleria.

The parking structure with mnimal retail plus the convenience store attracts the bums. The city just can't make up its mind to remove the nuisance income producer that Peterson's is.

Union Station is fine. Would be nice if a coffee outfit could get in there. That might really help make it a nice scene. Plenty customers live just over the pedestrian bridge in the Yards apartments. Then again...the bums I suppose. But seriously, the family gift shop there is securely grandfathered in. Also nice if they reviewed the station's original configuration. Understand the lobby once had a second floor mezzanine. I also wonder if the ground floor layout is what it once was. Where the ticket counter is just doesn't make sense what with the rounded wall with clerestory windows behind it.

It might be real nice if you could ride rails from the station out over to St Johns or down Hwy 30 to Sauvies Island and further.

[robbobpdx]

Originally Posted by westsider

Why does everyone have a love affair with the galleria? I would'nt care if they tore it down, it would be one less bum magnet.

Well, I don't have a love affair with the Galleria, but I do recognize its history for Portland. On another thread someone posted this history link. You may want to check it out to get an idea of what I mean.

http://www.pdxhistory.com/html/olds___king.html

The Galleria, former Olds & King and Rhodes Department Stores, and after those lifetimes was a very hip mall of sorts years before Pioneer Place was built. I like its classic design, and it's terrific location. I also don't see many bums around it (across the street at Petersons's yes). But then there are bums all around at different places downtown, but that doesn't make this building bad.

Actually, I favor something that would bring the place back -- without losing our history. I think it's a real shame we've lost so many historic buildings, so think it's a good idea to have old historic buildings like this have new life put into them. The Galleria has had several lives (kind of like a cat). And the Naito family just about killed it completely with their family fued and lack of vision for the place.

So a love affair, no. But it is a great location, and one that with some in-fill development (that will be coming), plus the transit location, and proximity to hotels, the Pearl and the West End it's at a very unique location to be something special with the right tenant. I just think a public market would be a good one, but others have mentioned it may be converted to a five-star hotel or something. Whatever happens to it, I would like to see it brought back to life in the same kind of way Meier & Frank / Macy's is being revamped.

[mcbaby]

saturday market is fine in it's current location. it's been in the same spot for over 30 years and is a major tourist attraction. by moving it closer to the river, it is still accessible by light rail. if they do add a public/farmers market to the area, they should utilize the space beneath the burnside bridge because it's sheltered. during the weekends you could benefit from having both markets side by side swarming with people and on weekdays, there would still be people at the public market directly on the max line beneath the bridge, sheltered from the elements.

i like the union station the way it is. it's a magnificent building and makes portland shine. if anything they should just improve the bridge connections. you have to slow down and stop anyway when you come to the station. what's the hurry? i hate the idea of memorial colliseum used as a train station. the whole rose quarter grosses me out. it is badly designed and a nightmare to navigate particularly if you are a pedestrian.

as for the galleria, the buzz is that the naito family are actually working on leasing out space for new retail again along with an expansion of the western culinary institute. sure it might be great for it's location and coupled with the culinary institute, a very edible destination but i fear that the rent might be out of a farmers market range.

[westsider]

Yeah, I'll admit that its mostly the convenience store drawing the street kids and homeless, not the galleria directly. Still, I know it's historic and all but I guess I've never been very impressed with it.

[pdxman]

I actually think having the train station moved to the east side would be a great idea...it would speed up the transfer thru portland on amtrak and maybe could end up being a transportation hub for amtrak, light rail, street car and maybe commuter rail. Plus, it would keep the beloved MC intact and used. I also would love to see the realization of a public market in portland but i don't why you have to get rid of the saturday market to do so. why not combine the two?