Where is Middle Eastern influence/culture strongest in North America?

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I don't know Bridgeview

bridgeview is definitely NOT traditionally urban:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7314...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7282...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7481...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7457...7i13312!8i6656

[goldeneyed]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I don't think Census will be particularly helpful. Chaldeans are traditionally the largest ME ethnicity in Metro Detroit, Lebanese often don't identify as Arab, and Yemenis are among the largest groups.

There's no local Turkish or Persian community, so not sure why that was even listed.

The general estimate is that Metro Detroit has around 450,000 folks of ME descent. So Montreal would have the 4th highest ME population in North America (assuming only NYC, LA and Detroit have larger populations).

How exactly is the Census not particularly helpful? The whole point of it is to provide people with numbers that are reliable so that they don't have to rely on estimates that are pulled out of nowhere.

It seems to me that you didn't even look at the numbers or the links I provided. When I wrote there were 157,742 Arabs according the ACS, this includes people who reported Lebanese origin. Yemenites are included in this number also.

Turkish and Iranian numbers were referenced because the title of the thread says Middle Eastern. I provided separate numbers for Arabs, and then gave a tally where I added non-Arabs like Assyrian, Armenians,Turks and Iranians.

Montreal has a sizeable Armenian, Iranian and Turkish population, but virtually no Assyrians, while Detroit has a large Assyrian population.

If you go by sheer numbers, only Los Angeles has more people of Middle Eastern ancestry than Montreal, due to their huge Armenian and Iranian populations.

[memph]

Originally Posted by Docere

Some stats on L.A. Iranian and Armenian communities:

Born in Iran 134,000
Iranian ancestry 128,000
Speak Persian at home 104,000

Armenian ancestry 204,000
Speak Armenian at home 172,000

https://statisticalatlas.com/metro-a...geles/Ancestry

Much higher Armenian stats than Toronto but Iranian stats are not that much high considering LA's much larger population.

Toronto CMA
Born in Iran: 74,000
Iranian ancestry: 97,000 (includes people reporting multiple ancestry)
Speak Persian at Home: 67,000

[goldeneyed]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

bridgeview is definitely NOT traditionally urban:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7314...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7282...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7481...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7457...7i13312!8i6656

Yes it's mostly a sub-urban area with a commerical artery filled with Arab businesses.

http://www.chicagoreporter.com/they-...tle-palestine/

[goldeneyed]

Originally Posted by memph

Much higher Armenian stats than Toronto but Iranian stats are not that much high considering LA's much larger population.

Toronto CMA
Born in Iran: 74,000
Iranian ancestry: 97,000 (includes people reporting multiple ancestry)
Speak Persian at Home: 67,000

Exactly, I've heard some people say the Greater Los Angeles area has 600,000 Persians or even 1 million Persians. I've read this on the internet, and have had Persians personnaly quote me numbers like this which are inaccurate.

[memph]

Originally Posted by goldeneyed

How exactly is the Census not particularly helpful? The whole point of it is to provide people with numbers that are reliable so that they don't have to rely on estimates that are pulled out of nowhere.

It seems to me that you didn't even look at the numbers or the links I provided. When I wrote there were 157,742 Arabs according the ACS, this includes people who reported Lebanese origin. Yemenites are included in this number also.

Turkish and Iranian numbers were referenced because the title of the thread says Middle Eastern. I provided separate numbers for Arabs, and then gave a tally where I added non-Arabs like Assyrian, Armenians,Turks and Iranians.

Montreal has a sizeable Armenian, Iranian and Turkish population, but virtually no Assyrians, while Detroit has a large Assyrian population.

If you go by sheer numbers, only Los Angeles has more people of Middle Eastern ancestry than Montreal, due to their huge Armenian and Iranian populations.

I think your Montreal stats have double counting though due to people with multiple ancestries. The West Asian + Arab visible minority population is only 220,000. In Toronto it's 229,000. If you want to exclude Afghans from those stats it drops to about 200,000 for Toronto and 215,000 for Montreal.

[iheartthed]

The Detroit area without a doubt, and the option should be "Detroit Area" and not "Michigan". Middle Easterners are to the Detroit area what Mexicans are to Los Angeles.

I've never been to Montreal but I would think that the brown people there mostly come from North Africa, not the Middle East. I've done no research on this, other than having a couple of brown friends who once lived in Montreal, so I could be wrong.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by memph

I think your Montreal stats have double counting though due to people with multiple ancestries. The West Asian + Arab visible minority population is only 220,000. In Toronto it's 229,000. If you want to exclude Afghans from those stats it drops to about 200,000 for Toronto and 215,000 for Montreal.

One thing to note is that Arab Christians often don't check the "VM" box. If you looked at Arab VM for example you'd get the impression the vast majority are Muslim, but in reality Arab Canadians are most likely evenly split between Christian and Muslim.

Armenians and Moroccan Jews generally don't identify as "VM" either.

[goldeneyed]

Originally Posted by memph

I think your Montreal stats have double counting though due to people with multiple ancestries. The West Asian + Arab visible minority population is only 220,000. In Toronto it's 229,000. If you want to exclude Afghans from those stats it drops to about 200,000 for Toronto and 215,000 for Montreal.

That isn't the proper way to count though. Not all people coming from Arab countries identify as Arab, like the Lebanese. They'll say they're Lebanese, not Arab, like Crawford mentionned. Also, even if some people say they are Arab, they may not identify as a visible minority. I think there was a thread about this somewhere else on these forums. A lot of Latinos and Middle Easterners in Canada won't identify as visible minorities. It may be even less than 50% that do so. So all these people would not be counted in your calculations.

While my numbers definately count certain people multiple times (people where one parent is Lebanese and one is Egyptian let's say), this would be the case for Toronto and Detroit as well.

[memph]

Originally Posted by goldeneyed

That isn't the proper way to count though. Not all people coming from Arab countries identify as Arab, like the Lebanese. They'll say they're Lebanese, not Arab, like Crawford mentionned. Also, even if some people say they are Arab, they may not identify as a visible minority. I think there was a thread about this somewhere else on these forums. A lot of Latinos and Middle Easterners in Canada won't identify as visible minorities. It may be even less than 50% that do so. So all these people would not be counted in your calculations.

While my numbers definately count certain people multiple times (people where one parent is Lebanese and one is Egyptian let's say), this would be the case for Toronto and Detroit as well.

ok, didn't realize the US census stats had double counting like that. In that case it's a fair way to compare. The total for Toronto CMA would be 320,000 compared to 415,000 for Montreal.

[Docere]

Not exactly. The Census Bureau has broader "Arab" and "West Indian" categories. So the West Indian count for example wouldn't double count someone who was half Barbadian and half Jamaican or someone who reported Lebanese and Egyptian.

If someone writes "Lebanese" they are classified as "Arab" by the Census Bureau as well.

However the Arab category doesn't include "Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac."

[Emprise du Lion]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I'm hesitant to say Detroit, even though Detroit almost certainly has the highest %.

Yes, Detroit has a huge ME population, but very heavily Christian and most have been there for generations. So quite Americanized, and, outside of Dearborn, the community isn't super-visible, and tends to blend into the sprawl (outside of some small signifiers like tons of Eastern Rite Catholic churches and "Mediterranean" restaurants in every strip mall).

To me, the Persian and Armenian enclaves in LA, and the Egyptian/Magreb/Syrian enclaves in NY/NJ are much more "in your face." But overall, the metros have smaller relative shares.

It's like asking "what metro has the strongest Asian influence" and the probable answer is San Jose (by %), but something is lost in the sprawly assimilation. The communities in NYC and LA are more distinct.

Mind you, the Armenians in LA are going to be Christians and or non-religious. The number of non-Christian religious Armenians is miniscule.

The Armenians in the rest of the country have blended into the scenery, for the most part. As far as I'm aware, metro Detroit has the largest Armenian population in the Midwest as well.

[BnaBreaker]

Although it probably doesn't belong in the larger conversation due to the fact that it's middle eastern community is relatively uniform and also because it lacks the large overall numbers, I do think Nashville deserves a very brief mention here. This is due to the largely unknown fact that Nashville is home to the largest Kurdish population (estimated to be between 12,000 and 15,000) not just in the US, but outside of the Kurdistan region. It also has a couple other middle eastern communities that are notable, including the 4th largest community of Egyptian immigrants (1st by percentage). Anyway, just wanted to toss in that little homerific shout-out. Carry on!

[jd3189]

Of course not the highest by any measure, but while I was living in Chattanooga TN, I encountered a lot of Arabs and even went to a major mosque in the area. I also got to meet a few Syrian refugees. Down in Palm Beach county, the Muslim community has been growing. I knew a few Palestinian kids while growing up and now I see a few Arabic stores here and there.

I guess outside of Detroit, LA, NYC, etc, the Middle East influence in America is more diffused across many metro areas.

[mello]

I lived in Tbilisi (Rep. of Georgia) for 5 months or so in 2011 and they DO NOT consider themselves Middle Eastern. When you ask them are the Caucasus "European" they absolutely say yes we are European. There are tons of Armenians living in Tbilisi and by no means does it feel Middle Eastern at all. Georgia and Armenia are the first two countries to officially adopt Christianity as some kind of state religion.

Wikipedia: Kingdom of Armenia became the first state to adopt Christianity as a state religion.

Even Azerbaijan is a much more liberal Muslim Country like Lebanon in Baku they have tons of nightlife and have very secular way of looking at life.

Just wanted to add this to the discussion that the Caucasus Country's are not "Middle Eastern" in nature. So please don't equate Aremenia, and Azerbaijan with Iran because they neighbor it.

[goldeneyed]

Originally Posted by BnaBreaker

Although it probably doesn't belong in the larger conversation due to the fact that it's middle eastern community is relatively uniform and also because it lacks the large overall numbers, I do think Nashville deserves a very brief mention here. This is due to the largely unknown fact that Nashville is home to the largest Kurdish population (estimated to be between 12,000 and 15,000) not just in the US, but outside of the Kurdistan region. It also has a couple other middle eastern communities that are notable, including the 4th largest community of Egyptian immigrants (1st by percentage). Anyway, just wanted to toss in that little homerific shout-out. Carry on!

I had read about the sizeable community of Kurds in Nashville. It's quite interesting that they ended up in Nashville.

I don't believe however that it is the largest Kurdish population outside of Kurdistan. Many cities in Germany should have bigger Kurdish populations than Nashville. I don't want to generalize, but it seems like there's a lot of false info on the internet that says "insert any american city" has the largest "insert an ethnicity" population outside of their respective country.

[Pedestrian]

In San Francisco, nearly all the "corner stores" (aka "bodegas") are owned/operated by Muslims (usually Arabs, often Syrians) and typically sell prepared Middle Eastern foods like hummus, babba ganoush, bastilla and so on. A significant number of pizzerias also seem to be Arab-run. The operators of the one in my neighborhood seem to be North African (Tunisian I think). But the neighborhood mosque seems to be frequented mostly by Yemenis and I assume practices a variety of Islam from Yemen. Hallal foods are easy to find in the city.

[Docere]

There are a lot of Iranian-Armenians in L.A. Which may explain why the number of people born in Iran exceeds those claiming Iranian ancestry.

[wg_flamip]

Originally Posted by goldeneyed

I had read about the sizeable community of Kurds in Nashville. It's quite interesting that they ended up in Nashville.

I don't believe however that it is the largest Kurdish population outside of Kurdistan. Many cities in Germany should have bigger Kurdish populations than Nashville. I don't want to generalize, but it seems like there's a lot of false info on the internet that says "insert any american city" has the largest "insert an ethnicity" population outside of their respective country.

By far, the largest Kurdish population outside of Kurdistan is in Istanbul. In the West, it's almost certainly a city somewhere in Germany (which has a Kurdish population ~50 times bigger than the US).

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Guys, Armenians are not middle eastern, neither are Georgians. We (I'm Armenian) are from the caucus region. Also, that official Iranian number for LA must be highly understated.

As someone also mentioned, there are tens of thousands of Armenians in LA that moved here from Iran (Armenians moved to Iran en mass after the Armenian genocide)