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  #601  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2018, 4:30 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
My point is there are no buildings of this size in the "decent and affordable" category.
"Affordable" for whom?

If there are high-end rental units coming onto the market, it means the people who can afford them will move there. It frees up units for renters at the lower end of the affordability scale.

This is just one development, though. It shouldn't be expected to cure all rental issues from every angle for everyone.

We do need more affordable multi-units in the city, and for families too. The pressure in the rental market is for smaller units though... bachelors and one bedrooms. More rental units are needed, period.
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  #602  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2018, 4:53 PM
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Toronto's Aura is 78 floors - kijiji shows 1 BR units for rent around $2100 (larger units go for more). That's comparable to average rents in Ottawa for higher end condos. Check kijiji, there are Ottawa 1 BR condos renting for $2800 to $3200 right now. A 2 BR condo at Lansdowne rents for about $3800. the most expensive condo buildings in Ottawa have owners renting out 2 bedrooms for around $4000 per month.

If you're imagining that these new apartment units are going to be renting for the same price level as a basement room sublet to a student, that isn't going to be the case. Not sure if they'll be as pricey as some other high end buildings already in the city, but they could fetch quite a bit, the demand's evidently there.
Aura is a condo.
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  #603  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2018, 4:59 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Aura is a condo.
A lot of condos in Toronto and Ottawa are rented out by the owners. They still "count" as rental stock, and they indicate which way the rental market's moving... similar to the LIV development, which are basically condo-style apartments that rent for condo-level prices. That's simply the high end of the rental market nowadays.
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  #604  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2018, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Pixel1 View Post
"Affordable" for whom?

If there are high-end rental units coming onto the market, it means the people who can afford them will move there. It frees up units for renters at the lower end of the affordability scale.

This is just one development, though. It shouldn't be expected to cure all rental issues from every angle for everyone.

We do need more affordable multi-units in the city, and for families too. The pressure in the rental market is for smaller units though... bachelors and one bedrooms. More rental units are needed, period.
I was quoting an earlier post. In my own mind I was thinking affording to Millenials who are getting into the housing market later then the previous generation (but the person I was quoting may have had a completely different definition).
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  #605  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2018, 5:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Pixel1 View Post
A lot of condos in Toronto and Ottawa are rented out by the owners. They still "count" as rental stock, and they indicate which way the rental market's moving... similar to the LIV development, which are basically condo-style apartments that rent for condo-level prices. That's simply the high end of the rental market nowadays.
With a condo the buyers are assuming a lot of the risk (and once the building is registered all of the risk). A "tallest building" condo is prestigious to investors (particularly overseas investors). With a rental building the developer assumes all of the risk. Which probably why there are so few primarily rental tall buildings.
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  #606  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2018, 5:17 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
From an international perspective Ottawa doesn't even rank.

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-...-canada-1609-7

In Canada it is 8th behind Kelowna.

http://dailyhive.com/toronto/average...a-january-2018
You've pointed to a blog post by a person affiliated with one of dozens of such (rental listing) web sites, which is reporting in 1 bedroom median prices. You've then pointed to another article citing the 24 most expensive cities worldwide in which to rent a 2 bedroom apartment.

We also have minimal indication on the methodology used to measure. Is the data focused on central areas or wider geographical areas? What constitutes a city? Is it the same as a region? CMA? Dows square footage factor into the data?

The defacto standard for gauging rental prices is a 2 bedroom apartment. CMHC, a slightly more credible source for such data than a random blogger, reports on this annually. In 2017, average price in Ottawa for 2017 was $1232, ranking 5th in Canada and trending upwards. Montreal, as the closest major centre and for an interesting comparison, is at 782 and was trending downwards.

The international comparison is extremely hard to make since it seems the defacto standard of measure is square footage.
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  #607  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2018, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
With a condo the buyers are assuming a lot of the risk (and once the building is registered all of the risk). A "tallest building" condo is prestigious to investors (particularly overseas investors). With a rental building the developer assumes all of the risk. Which probably why there are so few primarily rental tall buildings.
Condo or purpose-built apartment buildings have different types of "risks" for "investors." I guess if a condo unit owner has a tenant who skips out on the rent, the condo owner might be up the creek. If a condo owner gets a lien on their unit, the rest of the building's owners have assumed part of that risk (or the corp on their behalf). There are condo investors with many units, but there are smaller ones too who only own a couple of units.

Apartment building firms who own and manage a lot of units assume a risk as they're the owners, yes... it's probably a risk that's more spread out for the large companies, though. This city has a few rental firms with multiple highrises around town, and each firm has thousands of units all together, just not with any single building as tall as this development. Anyway, this is to be a mixed-use building with lots of office and retail space planned... that reduces some of the risk too.

I'm not into real estate investment at all, just find it all interesting... the reaction to the added height in this one project has gotten disproportionate (argh) attention compared to what would've happened with shorter skyscrapers with the exact same density. I find that a bit absurd at the end of the day. Anyone could build thousands (or tens of thousands) of housing units outside the greenbelt, and you'd hear hardly a peep about it, either about the "livability" or the aesthetics...
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  #608  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2018, 7:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ac888yow View Post
You've pointed to a blog post by a person affiliated with one of dozens of such (rental listing) web sites, which is reporting in 1 bedroom median prices. You've then pointed to another article citing the 24 most expensive cities worldwide in which to rent a 2 bedroom apartment.

We also have minimal indication on the methodology used to measure. Is the data focused on central areas or wider geographical areas? What constitutes a city? Is it the same as a region? CMA? Dows square footage factor into the data?

The defacto standard for gauging rental prices is a 2 bedroom apartment. CMHC, a slightly more credible source for such data than a random blogger, reports on this annually. In 2017, average price in Ottawa for 2017 was $1232, ranking 5th in Canada and trending upwards. Montreal, as the closest major centre and for an interesting comparison, is at 782 and was trending downwards.

The international comparison is extremely hard to make since it seems the defacto standard of measure is square footage.
I think you're right that statscan is a better source. I was looking for city-level data. Maybe I should have looked harder.

I think you're also right that comparing between jurisdictions is difficult because different factors are considered in different places, although the order of magnitude seems right.

I still think my original assertion is correct though, that rents in Ottawa are much lower than cities that have residential buildings of the scale we're talking about here.
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  #609  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2018, 4:30 PM
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Since this topic was recently discussed ...

Quote:
Rising rents and cutthroat competition: Inside Ottawa's booming rental market
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...market-madness
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