Surrey Langley Skytrain - Expo Line Extension | Proposed

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Seems like it passed over us but arguably the biggest news of today:

This is a no-brainer! The existing Skytrain technology should be extended and expanded in various parts of the region. It provides fast and efficient service. The only reason LRT was accepted by the Mayor's council is Surrey First push for it without the support of Surrey residents. They got tossed for doing that. Now it is time to right the ship and do it the right way. Cars and trains don't mix. Just look at Calgary.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Nice to see our new leadership working with each other. Things might be looking up.

Yeah, that's rare! Vancouver and Surrey not fighting each other on rapid transit. That is what we feared years ago and now it is actually not happening. This is huge. I am hoping that most of the Mayors will recognize the synergy and vote with them.

There's some commotion as pointed out in Frances Bula's article, but I am thinking a lot of that will die down when most mayors realize that the capital cost commitment to an Expo: Langley SkyTrain ($2.9 billion) is actually less than the SNG LRT + Surrey-Langley LRT put together ($1.65 + $1.9 billion = $3.55 billion).

The 96 B-Line isn't suffering from major overcrowding issues, so a lot of service improvements (including additional transit priority, to address travel time/reliability) can be covered under the enhanced B-Line program and draw from the dedicated funding pool set up for that. More improvements can be delivered incrementally and with less community disruption compared to an all-at-once construction process. The funding envelope for both the 96B improvements and Expo: Langley SkyTrain would be less than the $3.55 billion total envelope for 27km of LRT.

[BCPhil]

One important thing to keep in mind:

We are 1 year away from a federal election.

And the federal Liberals need some wins, especially in BC, badly.

If the feds don't hand over at least the money that was already promised for what ever Translink wants to build, they can pretty much guarantee zero red seats south of the Fraser.

Yes, that makes those some pretty expensive seats, but they are facing the possibility of almost being shut out of BC next year.

The $1.7 billion would go a long way to building Skytrain. You only need about 7.5km of track to get to 168 Street (with plenty of trailing track to facilitate the next phase). Even at $175 million/km, that's a grand total of $1.3 billion.

And I think that is a generous overestimation (contingency). Even with inflation, I don't see how a 7km extension could come in higher than the Evergreen line.

The leftover change could then be used to improve the B-Line service in Surrey, like adding more lanes, queue jumpers at intersections, priority lights, and comfortable stations to the 96 and future Langley B lines, as well as put in service to White Rock and down Scott Road/72nd.

And after a few years of ridership growth and transit oriented development (in Surrey and Langley), we will probably see that we need to quickly extend the line. And we will have options on what to do to Newton (either upgrade BRT to LRT or extend Skytrain).

[Trainguy]

It is interesting that Horgan is backing away from his earlier comments on the LRT project (It will get built) saying that it is not an NDP project but the Mayor's council. He doesn't want to tick off the NDP ridings in Surrey by pulling the funding because of a shift in direction.

Doug is a good negotiator so we will see how successful he is starting in November. Surrey First acted in bad faith by ramming this project that most people didn't want. That didn't bode well for them. No wonder Hepner quit. She saw the writing on the wall and bailed.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

One important thing to keep in mind:

We are 1 year away from a federal election.

And the federal Liberals need some wins, especially in BC, badly.

Speaking of which....

The federal government will fund SkyTrain in Surrey: local Liberal MP

The Trudeau government will fund SkyTrain in Surrey, if that’s what the city and region and province decide, according to Fleetwood-Port Kells Liberal MP Ken Hardie.

...

“The federal government interest is moving people as efficiently as possible and making the region less reliant on single-occupant vehicles. So rapid transit is the investment we’re making and the choice of technology and where it stops and starts, is up to the city, region and province.”

...

VIA: [GLOBAL / CKNW]

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Speaking of which....

I am a resident in Ken's constituency. He is a smart guy coming right out and supporting what the residents voted for. With the election a year away, he will score huge points if the Liberals support Skytrain and not give the funding to some other project.

This looking better each day. It is up to Horgan now to follow suit or he will look like a horse's a$$.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Seems like it passed over us but arguably the biggest news of today:

I'm taking it with a grain of salt and this is why:

This mayor is new and we may be infatuated with him, and he's saying the right things at the moment. I am glad that things are looking good and that people are keeping optimistic but when he gets sworn in on November 5th, the city council will need to hit the ground running when it comes to this housing crisis. And with the Fed elections around the corner, I suspect that unfunded transportation projects will get delays.

[waves]

Copying from a post I saw on Facebook: "Since mayoral council votes are weighted, and Vancouver and Surrey have combined 58 / 134 votes: the mayoral council could vote on a pivot of the 10 year plan to SkyTrain with potentially just one additional city’s support."

Hopefully Burnaby will get on board so that we have the Tri-fecta of Skytrain to Langely, Skytrain to UBC and the Gondola to SFU!

The bad news is that the CNV's Linda Buchanan is expressing reservations and wants the money for herself - she is saying she is not supportive of switching to Skytrain in Surrey: https://omny.fm/shows/steele-drex/as...train-how-does

I am writing a letter to Mayor Mike Little of the DNV (as I am a local DNV resident) and hopefully he will also support Doug McCallum.

Also: It seems Richmond Mayor is also not supportive: "Richmond Mayor Malcolm Brodie said Monday he could not see himself supporting a request from Surrey for another billion dollars for a SkyTrain line to Langley, the easternmost suburb of Metro Vancouver, with regional taxpayers having to pay for likely a third of it. “The first question is how much of the extra costs would be borne by Surrey?” Mr. Brodie said Monday. “Doug seems to think it would be borne by the region, but I don’t subscribe to that.”"

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...-for-skytrain/

[Migrant_Coconut]

Can't entirely blame Buchanan - the North Shore needs SkyTrain yesterday.

Like Daryl said though, she might come around once she hears that the Metro'll save over $600 million with the SkyTrain plan, or if the Mayors promise North Van first refusal in the next plan. Maybe we get SkyTrain out to Arbutus and 160th now, then build the North Shore Crossing Line in 2030, then finish the full UBC and Langley extensions by 2040?

[waves]

Any Skytrain crossing to the North Shore is going to be very expensive though and the North Shore needs to be able to count on regional support if it is ever to get it. Penny pinching and not supporting Surrey is only going to be to Linda's detriment because Surrey and Vancouver will then turn around and say, you didn't support our needs, why should we support yours.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by waves

Copying from a post I saw on Facebook: "Since mayoral council votes are weighted, and Vancouver and Surrey have combined 58 / 134 votes: the mayoral council could vote on a pivot of the 10 year plan to SkyTrain with potentially just one additional city’s support."

Hopefully Burnaby will get on board so that we have the Tri-fecta of Skytrain to Langely, Skytrain to UBC and the Gondola to SFU!

The bad news is that the CNV's Linda Buchanan is expressing reservations and wants the money for herself - she is saying she is not supportive of switching to Skytrain in Surrey:

I am writing a letter to Mayor Mike Little of the DNV (as I am a local DNV resident) and hopefully he will also support Doug McCallum.

Also: It seems Richmond Mayor is also not supportive: "Richmond Mayor Malcolm Brodie said Monday he could not see himself supporting a request from Surrey for another billion dollars for a SkyTrain line to Langley, the easternmost suburb of Metro Vancouver, with regional taxpayers having to pay for likely a third of it. “The first question is how much of the extra costs would be borne by Surrey?” Mr. Brodie said Monday. “Doug seems to think it would be borne by the region, but I don’t subscribe to that.”"

Burnaby's new mayor is an unknown at this point. He doesn't need to care about the Expo Line outside of Burnaby but thrown him support for a SFU gondola and hopefully he goes for it.

When Richmond voted Brodie back in as mayor my first thought was 'no Massey Bridge anytime soon' as he's been against it. Is there anything he's not against?

Originally Posted by waves

Any Skytrain crossing to the North Shore is going to be very expensive though and the North Shore needs to be able to count on regional support if it is ever to get it. Penny pinching and not supporting Surrey is only going to be to Linda's detriment because Surrey and Vancouver will then turn around and say, you didn't support our needs, why should we support yours.

I can see that happening - and taking her by surprise...

[Galaxy]

I wonder if they sold Carbon offset credits would there be enough money to make up the shortfalls from a project like the Surrey Extention and the second phase of the UBC line? I imagine the number of cars and the number of emissions saved by both these projects could be leveraged to offset someone else's polluting ways.

[Trainguy]

Vancouver British Columbia -

"The Surrey Board of Trade hopes to have an open discussion with the city's newly-elected council, but will tell senior levels of government that Surrey might be heading in the wrong direction.

"We will be doing our own advocacy about why we think the RCMP should stay in Surrey, why we need LRT," Surrey Board of Trade CEO Anita Huberman said.

The Surrey Board of Trade has no respect for voters' wishes. Despite the overwhelming election results, they still think they know better and will continue to fight the fight. Seriously?? Get off your high horses and listen to the citizens.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Vancouver British Columbia -

"The Surrey Board of Trade hopes to have an open discussion with the city's newly-elected council, but will tell senior levels of government that Surrey might be heading in the wrong direction.

"We will be doing our own advocacy about why we think the RCMP should stay in Surrey, why we need LRT," Surrey Board of Trade CEO Anita Huberman said.

The Surrey Board of Trade has no respect for voters' wishes. Despite the overwhelming election results, they still think they know better and will continue to fight the fight. Seriously?? Get off your high horses and listen to the citizens.

Results here: it was 45% for SkyTrain (including People First), 29% flip-flopping (Proudly Surrey & Integrity Now) and 26% for light rail. Not exactly a landslide.

But yes, it's a bit funny to watch the Board go from "see, most of Surrey agrees with us!" to "OMGWTFBBQ you retards don't know what's best for yourselves!"

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Results here: it was 45% for SkyTrain (including People First), 29% flip-flopping (Proudly Surrey & Integrity Now) and 26% for light rail. Not exactly a landslide.

But yes, it's a bit funny to watch the Board go from "see, most of Surrey agrees with us!" to "OMGWTFBBQ you retards don't know what's best for yourselves!"

True, not a landslide but not only did Doug win, most of his team did as well. For the citizens to elect of bunch of relative no-names for council says a lot. They mean business and want changes.

[Aroundtheworld]

Assuming the $2.9 B estimate for Skytrain to Langley is correct, it will be impossible to build all the way to Langley using already promised funding. On the other hand, the furthest the line could reasonable go for under $1.65 B would be to 164th and that would only cost around $1.15 B.

What to do with the extra $500 M? The line could be further extended into the Serpentine Valley. The purpose of this would be not to build an extra station, but to connect the line to a new maintenance yard located in the valley. This will likely be needed as the existing facilities are nearing capacity.

The extra $500 M could also be spent on building the SFU Gondola and adding new B-Lines in Surrey.

[waves]

The extra $500 million could go into SNG-WhiteRock BRT? How much would just a BRT cost?

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld

Assuming the $2.9 B estimate for Skytrain to Langley is correct, it will be impossible to build all the way to Langley using already promised funding. On the other hand, the furthest the line could reasonable go for under $1.65 B would be to 164th and that would only cost around $1.15 B.

What to do with the extra $500 M? The line could be further extended into the Serpentine Valley. The purpose of this would be not to build an extra station, but to connect the line to a new maintenance yard located in the valley. This will likely be needed as the existing facilities are nearing capacity.

The extra $500 M could also be spent on building the SFU Gondola and adding new B-Lines in Surrey.

The 2.9B estimate is way off. The Evergreen line was only 1.42B and that's with an expensive tunnel. We will see what they can do with the promised money that isn't going away apparently. The Langley line is 6 km longer than Evergreen so going to 164th st is a good compromise. The line will get well use I am sure even to 164th.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld

What to do with the extra $500 M? The line could be further extended into the Serpentine Valley. The purpose of this would be not to build an extra station, but to connect the line to a new maintenance yard located in the valley. This will likely be needed as the existing facilities are nearing capacity.

The Serpentine Valley is all ALR. Would they be allowed to build there?

[officedweller]

The other thing about a Fraser Hwy Skytrain alignment - it's a straight shot.
No (or few) complicated designs for curves or special structures / bridges.