Should Canada Be Preparing for a Destabilized USA?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by geotag277

This seems like an absurd false equivalence. No one is talking about the decline of government, and it is theoretically possible for government budgets to decrease while increasing corporate oversight and regulations.

Corporations will always be held accountable to the laws of the land, and the laws of the land will always be dictated by governments. No one is suggesting any fundamental change to this process. Back to basics governance can simplify regulations - which by the way is not logically opposed to "strengthen", in other words you can simplify & strengthen laws at the same time.

While this may be technically true, I tend to agree with 1overosc. Trumpism is obviously a withdrawal of government from the pursuit of the goal of "improving society".

Sure the new goal may be to make society "richer" overall, and this may be as they say a rising tide that lifts all (or most) boats. But the rise may not be enough to prevent some from drowning - people that the previous approach might have actually been saved from drowning.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

This is not a good thing, IMO. In the modern age, the decline of government can only bring about the rise of corporate power as its replacement. And as shitty as governments can be, large corporations are immeasurably worse. At least governments are accountable to all of us through the democratic process. Corporations are accountable only to their shareholders.

Yes, and this was precisely where I was going to go with my follow-up of this.

In terms of power relationships, 2017 is quite different from the pre-WWI era of small governments, low taxes and non-existent social services. Mega-corporatism was also in its infancy at the time.

There are a number of corporations today that are more powerful than a lot of western countries or sub-national entities like states or provinces, or even groups of developed countries acting together.

The increasing withdrawal of the U.S. government (as flawed as it is) from the "playing field" would leave them with even freer reign than they already have. It's the next step to them becoming the new masters of the universe.

Again, this is probably not simple happenstance.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by geotag277

It is more accurate to probably say that Canada doesn't have this trend as much because Canada's model is already state's rights on steroids and we never descended into the bloated bureaucratic cesspool that is the United States Federal government.

People who casually follow politics in Canada might not understand how much of an abject failure institutions like the Department of Education, Department of Energy, Department of Labor, HUD, etc. etc. Or at least why these institutions receive billions and billions with not much to show for it.

Many departments in the United States federal government are designed to make a lot of people a lot of money firstly, and secondly provide a service to the American people that may or may not provide long term tangible benefits.

It is considerably more complex than is generally assumed, and again, it gets back to lio's question: how does everybody feel about our federal minister of education?

Canada's government(s), especially federal and provincial, are arguably better than the U.S. federal and most state governments at providing services to the people. This does not mean they are not bloated and that there is not growing insatisfaction and hostility against them. And let's not forget that anti-government rhetoric from the U.S. influences Canadian views on such things, (sadly) regardless of whether the parallels are true or not.

Stuff like the release of Vincent Li into society so soon after he beheaded that poor guy on the bus contributes to many Canadians thinking that our "system" might be broken too.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Canada's government(s), especially federal and provincial, are arguably better than the U.S. federal and most state governments at providing services to the people.
...

When confronted with this, Americans instinctively point out that they are the world's policemen, and this sacrifice is for the good of humanity. That makes us the guilty ones, expecting things like actual health care.

[Antigonish]

Originally Posted by geotag277

Left leaning individuals trying to argue for the impeachment of Trump over his twitter account.

The amazing thing is how people are not self aware of how stupid they look.

And it's always the paid trolls "pinned" right under his tweets. Twitter changed their algorithm a few weeks ago to reflect this, and as for paid trolls - look up David Brock's "Share Blue" propaganda firm. It's disgusting, and every day these crapshoot rumors made up about Trump (that turn up either false, or irrelevant) have me rooting for him more and more.

There are a lot of ugly things going on behind the scenes currently, and once those are straightened out, people will realize he isn't the next Hitler like Huffpo told them.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Who said anything about Hillary? I certainly never did.



Populism isn't just about saying popular things. Above all, it's about the way in which a candidate conducts him/herself and the tenor of their campaign and the social class to whom their communication is directed. Franklin Delano Roosevelt put forth many proposals that were wildly popular to the disenfranchised working class, but he was not a populist.

Nor is populism a right wing thing. On the contrary, up until the 1990s and the rise of the nativist right movement in Continental Europe, most of the populists that Western voters would have encountered would have been firmly on the socialist left.



This is a baiting comment, but I'll take the bait.

I actually don't comment that much on political issues in SSP compared to others so I don't think you know where I stand on a left-right spectrum.

There are issues where I am on the extreme left: I think the US is fundamentally a racist society at heart and in the design of its institutions.

There are issues where I am centre right: I thought it was stupid of Trudeau to lower the OAS to 65 after Harper had fought hard to raise it to 67; I thought that the TFSA - the brainchild of Jim Flaherty - was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

And there are social issues where I am actually very far to the right: Just as I think that the US is structurally racist, I think that Islam is structurally extremist and somewhat irreconcilable with a Western world view of pluralism and where no ideological pursuit is worth the death of individual people.

At the risk of sounding shrill, I think it's very presumptuous of you to automatically dismiss people and put them into neat left vs. right boxes. Isn't this what you've been railing against in your typically contrarian posts all along?

This is not specifically directed at your post, but I needed an anchor for my comment and this sorta fits...

For those who are observing the paradigm shifts on the left-right spectrum in the U.S., the former media darling of the progressives and Democrats, Bill Maher, is a very interesting case study to pay attention to right now.

[jmt18325]

What about Bill Maher is interesting right now that hasn't been for a long time? His opinions haven't changed.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

What about Bill Maher is interesting right now that hasn't been for a long time? His opinions haven't changed.

He's symptomatic of the embracing by a growing number of leftist progressives of ideas that have always been anathema to contemporary leftist progressives.

In turn, this makes (or made) voting for a candidate like Trump somewhat less anathemic for a surprising number of these people.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Governments weren't always as big as they are today, and certainly weren't agents of social change and progress. It will take time and it likely won't go all the way, but it looks to me like Trump is the beginning of back-to-basics style of governance, and the era of the western nation-state trying to be all things to all people (well, as much as possible, anyway) is likely over.

This trend is definitely not what's in the air in Canada right now, but my sense is that it will reach us too eventually.

Don't bet on it. A large part of the Trump vote was a protest against globalization not benefitting the workers, instead the benefits went to corporations and the 1%. Trump's policies will merely continue the inequality and sooner or later most of them will realize they've been had.

[Bluenote]

You people only base his presidency on $$$$. That alone is rather ignorant and is short term thinking.

How about the fact he has caused racism to climb 10 fold in the USA now.
How about the fact the HATE groups have risen 10 fold since he became president.
How about the fact he has basically ignored all treaty rites of Native Americans.
How about the fact he has basically thrown away environmental responsibility for short term gains.
How about the FACT he has made the USA even less liked on a world scale.
How about the fact that spending trillions on the military is a short term gain for a long term debt in a country that is trillions in debt thanks to 20 plus years of playing war games in the middles east.

I can go on and on and non of you can say this isn't happening.

There is a lot more to the world economy then short term gains. And the sad part is your kids will have to pick up the mess he is creating globally. But hey. At least your present bank account will be fat right ......🙄

[Acajack]

I don't recall saying any of this was a good thing.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Acajack

He's symptomatic of the embracing by a growing number of leftist progressives of ideas that have always been anathema to contemporary leftist progressives.

In turn, this makes (or made) voting for a candidate like Trump somewhat less anathemic for a surprising number of these people.

Maher is no supporter of Trump, and has hated Islam (and all religion to a lesser extent) for decades.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

You people only base his presidency on $$$$. That alone is rather ignorant and is short term thinking.

How about the fact he has caused racism to climb 10 fold in the USA now.
How about the fact the HATE groups have risen 10 fold since he became president.
How about the fact he has basically ignored all treaty rites of Native Americans.
How about the fact he has basically thrown away environmental responsibility for short term gains.
How about the FACT he has made the USA even less liked on a world scale.
How about the fact that spending trillions on the military is a short term gain for a long term debt in a country that is trillions in debt thanks to 20 plus years of playing war games in the middles east.

I can go on and on and non of you can say this isn't happening.

There is a lot more to the world economy then short term gains. And the sad part is your kids will have to pick up the mess he is creating globally. But hey. At least your present bank account will be fat right ......🙄

Nobody argues any of that, but the fact is it's the $$$ that lead business leaders to collude with him, and the 1% to quietly support him while privately being appalled he is such a buffoon.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Trump's policies will merely continue the inequality and sooner or later most of them will realize they've been had.

This is where I don't believe you.

One minute you think his ego is everything,

the other you act as if he has no concern for his reputation.

These circular arguments make no sense.

His giant ego isn't automatically always a bad thing.

http://www.businessinsider.com/does-...opaths-2012-12

I"m not saying that trump is a psychopath(it seems unlikely judging by what we see).

However there is a huge degree of truth that his ego might be his biggest asset.Which contradicts the notion that it is his biggest fault.

A month in I think were clearly at wait and see territory.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

So to summarize, you believe the main issue with the US is over-centralization, and devolution of power to the states is the solution?

I hope you're right. Decentralization is an easy fix.

I think it may make sense.

It shouldn't be a large surprise the world is shifting toward regional governance. Regardless of how popular big economic unions may be, the economic role of the subdivision/city is huge.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by Acajack

While this may be technically true, I tend to agree with 1overosc. Trumpism is obviously a withdrawal of government from the pursuit of the goal of "improving society".

Sure the new goal may be to make society "richer" overall, and this may be as they say a rising tide that lifts all (or most) boats. But the rise may not be enough to prevent some from drowning - people that the previous approach might have actually been saved from drowning.

Honestly I think if you look at california where the voice for this might be loudest it is ironically quite clear that illegal immigrants are one of the biggest blocks to more economic independence.

There seems to be a real strong narrative that the most liberal states are also the ones who benefit the most from democratic policies.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by Acajack

He's symptomatic of the embracing by a growing number of leftist progressives of ideas that have always been anathema to contemporary leftist progressives.

In turn, this makes (or made) voting for a candidate like Trump somewhat less anathemic for a surprising number of these people.

You have to understand that for a lot of Christians the threat of anti religion democrats has always been a very real threat.

The idea that democrats have a wide degree of beliefs from

Social libertarian/fiscial con

to just right of center.

To full on social Marxist isn't a new thing.


That being said it's nice that people are finally starting to open up about the conflict within the left.

I think it's forgotten that the democrats are not automatically the left of center party.

Its a time that people really need to rebuild the american political system.

[khabibulin]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

It's gone far beyond that:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...08293516632065

I'll be surprised if Trump makes it to 2018, never mind 2020.

I hope you're prepared to be surprised!

[Nicko999]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

You people only base his presidency on $$$$. That alone is rather ignorant and is short term thinking.

How about the fact he has caused racism to climb 10 fold in the USA now.
How about the fact the HATE groups have risen 10 fold since he became president.
How about the fact he has basically ignored all treaty rites of Native Americans.
How about the fact he has basically thrown away environmental responsibility for short term gains.
How about the FACT he has made the USA even less liked on a world scale.
How about the fact that spending trillions on the military is a short term gain for a long term debt in a country that is trillions in debt thanks to 20 plus years of playing war games in the middles east.

I can go on and on and non of you can say this isn't happening.

There is a lot more to the world economy then short term gains. And the sad part is your kids will have to pick up the mess he is creating globally. But hey. At least your present bank account will be fat right ......������

You gotta stop watching the Clinton News Network and other bias medias.

Take a deep breath and try thinking rationally. Racism has increased? Really? I think the #BlackLivesMatter protests were held before Trump was even elected.
What Hate groups are you talking about? The ones breaking windows in Washington DC at Trump's inauguration? Or the ones protesting against a democratically elected president? Would those riots have happened had Clinton won the elections? Ask yourself the question and you'll realize maybe Trump isn't the villain after all.
As for global warming, I understand the concern but global warming does not exist, it's called climate change. And go read some unsponsored articles about what causes climate change. Hint: It has to do with humans and the sun's cycle.
As for the debt because of Wars in the Middle East, Trump wants to temporarily ban the entrance of people of those countries... instead of you know... bomb them. I actually don't agree with Trump that Saudi Arabia is not included because of business ties. That country is the EVIL in the region so they would be first on my list.

Listen, I'm all for multiculturalism but at some point enough is enough. We're becoming too tolerant. If you come here, you have to adopt the Canadian way of life. Nobody wants you to change religion but hijabs and other religious signs should be PROHIBITED outside of the mosque. If Iran bans women from entering the country without a hijab (no matter the religion) why would a country like the US should allow them to enter with such? Are we a Muslim country/continent? How comes you never see Muslim countries being tolerant? This is why BREXIT happened, Trump got elected and right wing parties are on the rise in Europe. We're lucky to have an ocean separating us from Europe and the Middle East because the Islamisation going on there is scary. I am hoping the next step is Kevin O'Leary at the head of the Conservatives but Canada is too soft for that.

Let's see all that hate towards me for my post now. You guys would be surprised how many people share the same opinions. They are just the silent majority.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by Nicko999

You gotta stop watching the Clinton News Network and other bias medias.

Take a deep breath and try thinking rationally. Racism has increased? Really? I think the #BlackLivesMatter protests were held before Trump was even elected.
What Hate groups are you talking about? The ones breaking windows in Washington DC at Trump's inauguration? Or the ones protesting against a democratically elected president? Would those riots have happened had Clinton won the elections? Ask yourself the question and you'll realize maybe Trump isn't the villain after all.
As for global warming, I understand the concern but global warming does not exist, it's called climate change. And go read some unsponsored articles about what causes climate change. Hint: It has to do with humans and the sun's cycle.
As for the debt because of Wars in the Middle East, Trump wants to temporarily ban the entrance of people of those countries... instead of you know... bomb them. I actually don't agree with Trump that Saudi Arabia is not included because of business ties. That country is the EVIL in the region so they would be first on my list.

Listen, I'm all for multiculturalism but at some point enough is enough. We're becoming too tolerant. If you come here, you have to adopt the Canadian way of life. Nobody wants you to change religion but hijabs and other religious signs should be PROHIBITED outside of the mosque. If Iran bans women from entering the country without a hijab (no matter the religion) why would a country like the US should allow them to enter with such? Are we a Muslim country/continent? How comes you never see Muslim countries being tolerant? This is why BREXIT happened, Trump got elected and right wing parties are on the rise in Europe. We're lucky to have an ocean separating us from Europe and the Middle East because the Islamisation going on there is scary. I am hoping the next step is Kevin O'Leary at the head of the Conservatives but Canada is too soft for that.

Let's see all that hate towards me for my post now. You guys would be surprised how many people share the same opinions. They are just the silent majority.

We may be a "silent" majority, but I'm not silent about it. I agree with you for the most part, however I do believe Canada can do better than the Yankee-wannabe Kevin O'Dreary as PM. He has basically turned his back on Canada and can be pretty much considered a Yank at this point, like Biebsy. Plus, he's just a wanker of a human being full stop. I have no interest in seeing people like him in Canadian politics, let alone running my country.