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  #41  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2009, 1:21 PM
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Today is the day for this:

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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post

Public Scoping Meeting on the 15 Penn Plaza Project

A public scoping meeting will be held on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 at the New York City Department of City Planning’s Spector Hall,
22 Reade Street, New York, New York, 10007. The meeting will begin at 10 AM. Written comments will be accepted by the lead agency
until Wednesday, February 11, 2009.
I don't expect a lot of fireworks from this, but maybe we will learn something interesting.
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  #42  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2009, 5:37 PM
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This'll be interesting indeed. I'm sure many questions will be answered, and possibly a solid timeline will be distributed. I do believe that at some point this site will amount to the likes of an office tower, it's just a matter of when. Between demolishing what the site currently contains, financing, and construction, it'll for sure take some time.
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  #43  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2009, 6:49 PM
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Originally Posted by scalziand View Post
So I decided to model this.

Enjoy.
Sorry for this unrelated question, but, why hasn't there been any tall high-rise construction north of of Empire State Bldg. and south of the Midtown skyscraper core?
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  #44  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2009, 7:11 PM
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Originally Posted by UrbanImpact View Post
Sorry for this unrelated question, but, why hasn't there been any tall high-rise construction north of of Empire State Bldg. and south of the Midtown skyscraper core?
Grand Central Terminal. Perhaps the greatest and most practical reason as to why Manhattan is so dense with commercial highrises, north of the ESB and south of Central Park is due to GCT. A perk that developers and property managers love to include for their tenants is the close proximity to Grand Central.

The revitalization of Penn will cause in time the same effect on the Westside, however pure lack of space in the Midtown commercial epicenter is also to note for the commercial shift.
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  #45  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2009, 7:23 PM
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Originally Posted by UrbanImpact View Post
Sorry for this unrelated question, but, why hasn't there been any tall high-rise construction north of of Empire State Bldg. and south of the Midtown skyscraper core?
im not sure but I think thats a protected area for the garment district.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2009, 8:33 PM
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Am I the only one who thinks this looks terrible? Its sheer visual mass dwarfs the Empire State Building in an insensitive and frankly ugly way.

It needs to be worthy of the title if it is to succeed the ESB as the "King of Manhattan" (and it will, since they are so close).

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  #47  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2009, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Am I the only one who thinks this looks terrible? Its sheer visual mass dwarfs the Empire State Building in an insensitive and frankly ugly way.

It needs to be worthy of the title if it is to succeed the ESB as the "King of Manhattan" (and it will, since they are so close).

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/213/penndn2.jpg
No matter what, the ESB will still be the King of Manhattan. It's been that way for so many years, nothing could possibly change it, even a 2000 footer on the next block.

Also, if anything, it will become the Younger, Slightly Less Handsome Brother of the King. More like an friend than a successor.

Yay for metaphors.
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  #48  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2009, 1:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Am I the only one who thinks this looks terrible? Its sheer visual mass dwarfs the Empire State Building in an insensitive and frankly ugly way.

It needs to be worthy of the title if it is to succeed the ESB as the "King of Manhattan" (and it will, since they are so close).

The proboem is, the definition of "worthy" will change for each and every person. The Empire State Building was built and designed for the early 20th century. This one is being designed for the 21st century - which means a larger mass of tower rising into the sky. Personally, I prefer a sheer mass in skyscrapers.
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  #49  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2009, 1:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanImpact View Post
Sorry for this unrelated question, but, why hasn't there been any tall high-rise construction north of of Empire State Bldg. and south of the Midtown skyscraper core?
The Empire State Building has never really been in the central Midtown business district - despite being just a couple of blocks from Penn Station, the country's busiest transportation hub. Developing a business district around Penn Station is one of the reasons this tower will be built (along with others in the vicinity).
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  #50  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 12:05 AM
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Interesting piece of info:
http://www.nyc.gov/portal/site/nycgo...&rc=1194&ndi=1

February 2, 2009

MAYOR BLOOMBERG AND COMMISSIONER LIMANDRI ANNOUNCE ONLINE DIAGRAMS OF PROPOSED BUILDINGS AND A NEW DEVELOPMENT CHALLENGE PROCESS


...New York City will become the first city in the nation to put diagrams of proposed new buildings or major enlargements online so the public can view the size and scale of a proposed building.

A new 30-day formal public challenge period will be implemented to give the public a greater voice in the development process and provide clarity for developers about when and how a project can move forward. The Mayor was joined at the announcement by Deputy Mayor for Economic Development Robert Lieber.

The new measures, which fulfill a commitment the Mayor made in his State of the City address last month, will go into effect starting Monday, March 9th.

"Until now, knowledge of development approvals has been limited to a small group of insiders with expert knowledge. This puts the public at a disadvantage and creates uncertainty for developers, who could be subject to a challenge long after a building is out of the ground," said Commissioner LiMandri. "This new process will give the public a chance to see what a building will look like before the first shovel hits the ground and developers certainty that once the public has had an opportunity to comment and any compliance issues have been resolved, their project can move forward. These reforms increase transparency and raise accountability across the board."

Architects and engineers filing applications for new buildings and major enlargements will be required to submit diagrams, which will be available at www.nyc.gov. The diagrams will detail critical information that can be used by the public to determine whether a project is in compliance with required zoning regulations. The diagrams will include the size of the project, drawn to scale, and where a building will sit in relation to the street.

The 30-day public-challenge process establishes a defined and organized means for the public to challenge zoning decisions by DOB that they believe are incorrect

_________________________________________


Funny, the amount of pandering that comes out before an election. Bloomberg has long been criticized for being too "cozy" with developers.
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  #51  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Scruffy View Post
im not sure but I think thats a protected area for the garment district.
The historic areas arent that big and they also arent right next to the ESB. The largest historic district on Manhattan is Greenwich Village and that covers a very large area. The closest historic district to the ESB is Madison Park Historic District and its about 10 blocks in area. There isnt an historic district behind the ESB in between the other highrises although. The reason the highrises are located where they are, at least historically speaking, is due where the bedrock is located. Near the tip of Manhattan the bedrock is closer to the surface, and then where the other massing of skyscrapers are in midtown is where the bedrock is closest to the surface. But now due to new technology taller scrapers can go just about anywhere in Manhattan. Thats why there arent that many highrises around the ESB because it costs more to drill deeper to the bedrock in order to secure the foundation.

On another note, I very much dislike this building, at least where it is located. NYC has such an awesome skyline because the king is sitting perfectly in the middle ruling over all. I say this and in 30 years this building will fit in perfectly with the skyline after people get used to it.
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  #52  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 1:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photolitherland View Post
The reason the highrises are located where they are, at least historically speaking, is due where the bedrock is located. Near the tip of Manhattan the bedrock is closer to the surface, and then where the other massing of skyscrapers are in midtown is where the bedrock is closest to the surface. But now due to new technology taller scrapers can go just about anywhere in Manhattan. Thats why there arent that many highrises around the ESB because it costs more to drill deeper to the bedrock in order to secure the foundation.
The neighborhood where the Empire State Building stands was never a central Midtown business district, that was furhter north.

Quote:
I very much dislike this building, at least where it is located. NYC has such an awesome skyline because the king is sitting perfectly in the middle ruling over all.
I think even if you put a taller tower further away from the ESB, the ESB would still lose its impact on the skyline simply because it wouldn't be the only and most dominant skyscraper anymore. The closest now is the BofA, and that's mostly due to the extended spire. The Tower Verre (slso rendered) would be further north and of similar height.

Had the proposed MSG towers gone up (below) they would have been dominant enough to replace, not join the ESB as rulers of Midtown. But really, the ESB was built in 1931. It will always be a great landmark, but we can't live in the past forever. It's time to see something as great built in our own lifetimes. An icon for the New York of this century, not the last.


Derek2k32
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  #53  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2009, 6:08 AM
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Is that really the proposed Madison Square Garden Towers? I have been looking forever to find a rendering.
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  #54  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2009, 6:35 AM
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Is that really the proposed Madison Square Garden Towers? I have been looking forever to find a rendering.
That's no longer planned.
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  #55  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2009, 6:12 AM
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When are we finally going to get some renderings!
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  #56  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2009, 7:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
The proboem is, the definition of "worthy" will change for each and every person. The Empire State Building was built and designed for the early 20th century. This one is being designed for the 21st century - which means a larger mass of tower rising into the sky. Personally, I prefer a sheer mass in skyscrapers.
I understand that viewpoint entirely but I don't think it should be used as an excuse for a project that belligerently ignores the complexity and nuance of the location and instead opts for the easy way out with an iminent, unbreakable, stubborn mass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by photolitherland View Post
The reason the highrises are located where they are, at least historically speaking, is due where the bedrock is located. Near the tip of Manhattan the bedrock is closer to the surface, and then where the other massing of skyscrapers are in midtown is where the bedrock is closest to the surface. But now due to new technology taller scrapers can go just about anywhere in Manhattan. Thats why there arent that many highrises around the ESB because it costs more to drill deeper to the bedrock in order to secure the foundation.
Eh actually it's more because NY outgrew downtown and the construction of a new transit hub at 42nd st. promoted a 'suburban' downtown growth. Midtown was once covered in brownstones more reminiscent of some Brooklyn neighbourhoods like Brooklyn Heights or Fort Greene but the shift in infrastructure is really what made Midtown. Really, there are skyscrapers everywhere, but the tallest ones in Midtown were built around the points of transit like Grand Central. The Chrysler Building was at full occupancy after construction and even through the Depression had low vacancy while the ESB was the 'Empty State Building' even well into the 60s. 34th st is today more of the gateway to Midtown but really was a much different universe from Midtown then.
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  #57  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2009, 1:34 PM
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When are we finally going to get some renderings!
First page.
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  #58  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2009, 1:38 PM
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I understand that viewpoint entirely but I don't think it should be used as an excuse for a project that belligerently ignores the complexity and nuance of the location and instead opts for the easy way out with an iminent, unbreakable, stubborn mass.
Have you seen New York? (Obviously you have, but really, this tower is no different than the masses).

Quote:
Eh actually it's more because NY outgrew downtown and the construction of a new transit hub at 42nd st. promoted a 'suburban' downtown growth. Midtown was once covered in brownstones more reminiscent of some Brooklyn neighbourhoods like Brooklyn Heights or Fort Greene but the shift in infrastructure is really what made Midtown. Really, there are skyscrapers everywhere, but the tallest ones in Midtown were built around the points of transit like Grand Central.
I agree with that. It's for that same reason that Penn Station should have and will be the center of a new commercial hub. It's the busiest transit hub in the country. Even the Port Authority will be at the center of commercial activity.
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  #59  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2009, 3:59 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Have you seen New York? (Obviously you have, but really, this tower is no different than the masses).
Of course, but I feel that a tower of this prominence should take advantage of the challenges its site faces. Hell, even if it were a WTC like slab of steel I'd like it more than the awkward squared off rosebud thing it is now. I mean, I really think it's an awful looking building in that incarnation. I'm not suggesting the design be cut back or scaled down at all, just rethought.
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  #60  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2009, 3:25 AM
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Of course, but I feel that a tower of this prominence should take advantage of the challenges its site faces. Hell, even if it were a WTC like slab of steel I'd like it more than the awkward squared off rosebud thing it is now. I mean, I really think it's an awful looking building in that incarnation. I'm not suggesting the design be cut back or scaled down at all, just rethought.
Remember that there are 2 versions of the proposal...

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