Homecoming reflections (TO, Mtl, Hfx)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Oh I read it differently. To me he's saying it's no longer a comparable peer of Montreal but not his beloved Montreal, now it actually is excelling in some areas he was surprised to find Montreal, comparatively, lacking. I'm not sure I'd sum that up as just impressive - he wasn't the one making the point about generic businesses, for example. I think he's implying TO's got some soul these days.

I should point I am not saying Toronto has no soul or character, only that it's not exactly overflowing with the stuff. (Basically nowhere in Canada is, actually.)

Anyway, we'll have to let kool speak for himself, I guess.

[Acajack]

https://www.tripadvisor.ca/ShowUserR...o_Ontario.html

[niwell]

This thread has really become... something. Cool that habsfanman is back getting triggered at any mention of interesting stuff in Toronto.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Acajack

https://www.tripadvisor.ca/ShowUserR...o_Ontario.html

That's just mean.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by niwell

This thread has really become... something. Cool that habsfanman is back getting triggered at any mention of interesting stuff in Toronto.

I've been Streetviewing TO for a day now. But went here based on your initial response to Kool - is this an apartment building or a school? Nice neighbourhood either way. Every house needs brightly-coloured window frames and doors.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.65285...7i13312!8i6656

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yeah, Montreal does appear to have more free concerts and other entertainment on offer than most cities, including Toronto.

Though I'd be surprised if Toronto didn't have at least some free classical music concerts too.

lol, Toronto has soul and tons of free events, probably a hell of a lot more than Montreal, most of that city feels empty to me. But it's okay, you can keep your fake narratives, I wouldn't want you to get a mental depression or anything

[niwell]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I've been Streetviewing TO for a day now. But went here based on your initial response to Kool - is this an apartment building or a school? Nice neighbourhood either way. Every house needs brightly-coloured window frames and doors.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.65285...7i13312!8i6656

Haha, you’re almost stalking me! It’s a school - we can actually see the top of it from our backyard. I’m ok without the brightly coloured window frames but I can see why you would like that!

FWIW we have some friends who lived in Montreal for over a decade doing their PhDs right of st denis in mile end and they love this part of Toronto. They just moved to Gatineau and are having urban withdrawals.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Acajack

https://www.tripadvisor.ca/ShowUserR...o_Ontario.html

At least Toronto has a sound, and musicians that dominate the world. Montreal...Celine Dion is passe, nobody knows or cares about the rest outside your little insecure, reactionary and obsessive Franco-supremacist bubble.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by niwell

Haha, you’re almost stalking me! It’s a school - we can actually see the top of it from our backyard. I’m ok without the brightly coloured window frames but I can see why you would like that!

FWIW we have some friends who lived in Montreal for over a decade doing their PhDs right of st denis in mile end and they love this part of Toronto. They just moved to Gatineau and are having urban withdrawals.

I am sure they are.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

At least Toronto has a sound, and musicians that dominate the world. Montreal...Celine Dion is passe, nobody knows or cares about the rest outside your little insecure, reactionary and obsessive Franco-supremacist bubble.

You're going in the wrong direction!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

lol, Toronto has soul and tons of free events, probably a hell of a lot more than Montreal, most of that city feels empty to me. But it's okay, you can keep your fake narratives, I wouldn't want you to get a mental depression or anything

Where are the pics of free classical music concerts with huge crowds then? (Not saying they don't exist - just curious to see.)

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am sure they are.

Not a slight on Gatineau! My gf wants to move to ottawa in the next 5 years and I will feel the same way, I’m sure.

It’s kinda funny - the topic of street festivals came up last night as yesterday was “Oss-fest” (ossington ave) and people were mentioning so many festivals that others hadn’t heard of. Including tiny block parties. This wasn’t the case 10 years ago.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Where are the pics of free classical music concerts with huge crowds then? (Not saying they don't exist - just curious to see.)

I'm not aware of 99% of the events in Toronto, I just know that anytime I'm downtown I'm surprised by yet another amazing event that frankly I rarely pay for. Too much free goings on, can't speak to a specific type of event. Classical music concerts sound super boring, but I have seen people in the Musical Garden near HTO park playing classical music with a couple hundred people in attendance. Clearly free as anyone can walk there. Not my scene though.

In downtown Montreal you can walk for ages and hardly see any people, let alone free events. I remember sitting on the stairs at Olympic Stadium waiting for my then gf while she was in the restroom, and some frustrated American tourists straight up asked me, "where are all the people??" This was on a weekend at their biggest stadium in a neighbourhood with many facilities and attractions such as the botanical gardens, sacrilege!

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by niwell

FWIW we have some friends who lived in Montreal for over a decade doing their PhDs right of st denis in mile end and they love this part of Toronto. They just moved to Gatineau and are having urban withdrawals.

They'll find a few things eventually. The only born-and-bred Torontonian I know who has lived in St. John's for any length of time loves Water Street and hates how slow customer service is (she doesn't mean getting pulled into conversations, she means even a coffee in the cafe or a drive-through meal takes 15 minutes). Her biggest pet peeve is how absolutely everything here has to be localized. "Sometimes I just need Midsummer Night's Dream to be Midsummer Night's Dream. Not set in Pouch Cove with a subplot about Protestants versus Catholics."

So, you know... I'm sure this is not an ideal life for her at the moment, but she's doing her time.

[kool maudit]

This thread is quite a thing now. What I hope people remember is that it was never intended to be an objective ranking of the three cities mentioned. It's a snapshot of how they interact with one man's life at a very specific period.

I miss my home country. My parents are growing older. I am concerned about career prospects for both me and for someone who is from a foreign country. I am homesick and detached from aspects of my past and in some ways a different person I was when I left Canada, and it's all coming down on me at once and creating angst and strangeness.

I mentioned that Toronto seemed like a London to Montreal's Budapest. What I didn't mention is that I don't really like London as a personality; I do like Budapest. If you gave me the choice to spend the next month in one or the other, I'd be Hungary-bound.

The European examples are extremes because Europe is extreme. The reality is that the two Canadian metropoli are not so dissimilar as it can seem. What bothered me most in Montreal is reflected in the words I kept using: vitality, life, deadness, quietness.

I don't think Montreal has little to offer the city enthusiast; it has a lot. The revitalisation of the Old Port and Square Victoria, as well as Griffintown, will one day give it a true zero point, an absolute core. The state of its major streets, however, is a real problem whose cause I am curious about. They are underused. Toronto's are bursting. We can talk about Bathurst and stuff, but when we have Queen and Bloor doing their thing at a level well beyond anything in Quebec, it's a bit academic. Were Saint-Laurent and Saint-Denis healthy it would be different. Twenty years ago, Saint-L was about 90% of Queen, but now it's about 40%.

The state of Toronto assuaged my current anxieties and Montreal's state exacerbated them. But they are the anxieties of a particular person at a particular juncture, looking for his country to satisfy particular structures and needs.

(Seriously, though: Queen Street. What a strip. From the Beaches to Roncesvalles. And for those of you looking to travel, Copenhagen is a great thing but Stockholm is perhaps the biggest 1.8 million-soul metro on the planet. At its palatial core it can feel like Saint Petersburg. Google the train system, too... the Scandi cities are tough, tough competition for Canadian ones, and per capita they are better than anything we have. But Canada is bigger...)

[PBruge]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yeah, Montreal does appear to have more free concerts and other entertainment on offer than most cities, including Toronto.

Though I'd be surprised if Toronto didn't have at least some free classical music concerts too.

The depth and diversity of free stuff is absolutely mind boggling and I find myself drawn in to experiences that I never would have been exposed to had they not been free. You know they’ve had the desired effect when you graduate from free guy to ticket buying guy.

I’m not going to list everything because I would be here all day but the symphony is a good example. I had never taken in a concert until one day, I was walking by Maison Symphonique and they were simulcasting the concert on the wall. They even had dancers. I was enthralled! Now I go to about 3 or 4 concerts a year - on top of the free shows. Sneaky Kent Nagano.. you got me!

Likewise, after seeing over 30 fireworks displays at l’International des feux, usually from the bridge, I know far more about pyrotechnics than I ever wanted to. I actually have conversations with people in the crowd « Great mid-levels », « excellent use of fan slices », « I hear they have over 9500 cues ». I’ve become a fireworks nerd! And of course, I buy a La Ronde pass at least once every year in order to watch from the stands.

The same goes for jazz, circus, modern dance, EDM, francophone music, visual arts, African music, projections.. if you’re exposed to something, chances are you’ll like it and you’ll seek more.

I can go out every single night - certainly in the summer but in winter too, and find some really worthwhile free thing. When in doubt, head to QdS.

But whatever you do, avoid Kool and his event avoidance hole tour!

[lio45]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Move to Toronto bro, you'll be welcomed and smart people like you will make a killing here!

I wouldn't say no, if the opportunity presented itself - though I don't see it likely.

At some point, the best place to "make a killing" is by far wherever you already happen to have all the contacts, business licenses, customers, suppliers, experience, familiarity... in spite of nearly everything else (greater business context, competitiveness of the tax framework, etc.)

Originally Posted by Acajack

That's pretty good advice but I don't think kool maudit sees things primarily in that way. I may be wrong, though...

Well, he's been living in various places for a long time and he hasn't put down serious roots yet, so what's another year or two to think about it while his well-located Montreal condo gains value?

Cities change, anyway. It's a fool's errand to try to find the perfect city once and for all, and think you'll always be the happiest in that one versus any others. It's not a marriage, you don't have to commit to it, through good times and bad, in grittiness and in gentrification, until the day you die.

[kool maudit]

Re mistercorporate's New York in 1920 comparison... I did feel that. The city is physically and socially coming together as a metropolis and the zenith-point is in the future. It's not really a possibility anymore, but something baked into the current trajectory.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by PBruge

But whatever you do, avoid Kool and his event avoidance hole tour!

Events are great but streets are more important.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by PBruge

The depth and diversity of free stuff is absolutely mind boggling and I find myself drawn in to experiences that I never would have been exposed to had they not been free. You know they’ve had the desired effect when you graduate from free guy to ticket buying guy.

I’m not going to list everything because I would be here all day but the symphony is a good example. I had never taken in a concert until one day, I was walking by Maison Symphonique and they were simulcasting the concert on the wall. They even had dancers. I was enthralled! Now I go to about 3 or 4 concerts a year - on top of the free shows. Sneaky Kent Nagano.. you got me!

Likewise, after seeing over 30 fireworks displays at l’International des feux, usually from the bridge, I know far more about pyrotechnics than I ever wanted to. I actually have conversations with people in the crowd « Great mid-levels », « excellent use of fan slices », « I hear they have over 9500 cues ». I’ve become a fireworks nerd! And of course, I buy a La Ronde pass at least once every year in order to watch from the stands.

The same goes for jazz, circus, modern dance, EDM, francophone music, visual arts, African music, projections.. if you’re exposed to something, chances are you’ll like it and you’ll seek more.

I can go out every single night - certainly in the summer but in winter too, and find some really worthwhile free thing. When in doubt, head to QdS.

But whatever you do, avoid Kool and his event avoidance hole tour!

It was a poetic description of impressions after a time away - even if it wasn't explicitly obvious, he even outright explained how much loves Montreal.

Your reaction to this reminds me of trying to tell my mother something. Say, a friend and I saw a whale... "Aisling and I drove out to Cape Spear today and..."

"What time was that?"

"Uhh... I don't know, around noon, so we got there and..."

"Did you take her car or yours?"

"Mine, but so when we got there, we did the trail up the lighthouse and..."

"I hope you drove slow! Her mother already buried one kid from a car accident, if you killed Aisling you might as well bury her too."