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  #1001  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2013, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by OTSkyline View Post
And obviously I don't intend this comment to be racist or anything but immigrants are not usually the ones who move to Canada and buy a $500K + condo downtown...
You're not racist, just very ignorant. Stop reading your news from the Sun, or listening to your retired uncle who whines about how all immigrants come here to collect welfare, or live 18 in a house.

Immigrants these days are some of the highest paid folks around. With the exception of a small handful who come in on refugee/family grounds, most immigrants are some of the most highly educated and highly trained people in the country. They have to be, because our immigration rules are that strict.

Other than the standard "old money" types (which here goes back all of a few decades), in Calgary much of the more expensive real estate is being bought up by first generation Canadians. Some of the more "premium" neighbourhoods are just chock-full of them there colored types, while us po' white folk end up crowded into middle-class suburbia.
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  #1002  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2013, 5:44 PM
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Originally Posted by freeweed View Post
You're not racist, just very ignorant. Stop reading your news from the Sun, or listening to your retired uncle who whines about how all immigrants come here to collect welfare, or live 18 in a house.

Immigrants these days are some of the highest paid folks around. With the exception of a small handful who come in on refugee/family grounds, most immigrants are some of the most highly educated and highly trained people in the country. They have to be, because our immigration rules are that strict.

Other than the standard "old money" types (which here goes back all of a few decades), in Calgary much of the more expensive real estate is being bought up by first generation Canadians. Some of the more "premium" neighbourhoods are just chock-full of them there colored types, while us po' white folk end up crowded into middle-class suburbia.
Immigration is a very polarizing subject.
If you say anything "negative" about it, you're ignorant and you swear by it, you're some crazy leftie hippie.

I live in Quebec City and most "premium" neighborhoods are 95% white but I admit it doesn't really count as our city is hardly an hot spot for immigration.
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  #1003  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2013, 6:45 PM
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The immigrant talk is a herring. Nobody off the plane from China or India are buying these homes, but yea Chinese-Canadians, Indo-Canadians, etc are indeed buying these homes but they are no different then you or me and are 100% Canadians. The media has spun this into a story when it's not. This isn't Hongcouver after the British and Chinese did the big handover. Foreign money still makes up less only around 11% of RE volume in Canada. It's Canadians pigging out on these homes and condos, the debate surrounding phony foreign money needs to end.

RE agents in BC were busted hiring Chiense-Canadians to pose as wealthy foreign Chinese buyers for the news media at Condo and Sub-Division launches. It's all fake, I am broken record on this but people need to see the RE boards are practically running fraud on Canadians to desperately maintain sales.
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  #1004  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2013, 7:04 PM
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Originally Posted by osmo View Post
The immigrant talk is a herring. Nobody off the plane from China or India are buying these homes, but yea Chinese-Canadians, Indo-Canadians, etc are indeed buying these homes but they are no different then you or me and are 100% Canadians. The media has spun this into a story when it's not. This isn't Hongcouver after the British and Chinese did the big handover. Foreign money still makes up less only around 11% of RE volume in Canada. It's Canadians pigging out on these homes and condos, the debate surrounding phony foreign money needs to end.

RE agents in BC were busted hiring Chiense-Canadians to pose as wealthy foreign Chinese buyers for the news media at Condo and Sub-Division launches. It's all fake, I am broken record on this but people need to see the RE boards are practically running fraud on Canadians to desperately maintain sales.
Not sure where you live but most homes are bought with cash by people from India and China and other third world to developing countries. These are corrupt massive countries that together hold about 40% of the world's total population and have some of the highest income and wealth disparities out there. Most of the immigrants are very very wealthy, the poor and middle class don't stand a chance to outbid the rich and connected. These are not your typical European immigrants from equal and lawfull middle class societies like in earlier decades.
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  #1005  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2013, 7:15 PM
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Originally Posted by freeweed View Post
You're not racist, just very ignorant. Stop reading your news from the Sun, or listening to your retired uncle who whines about how all immigrants come here to collect welfare, or live 18 in a house.

Immigrants these days are some of the highest paid folks around. With the exception of a small handful who come in on refugee/family grounds, most immigrants are some of the most highly educated and highly trained people in the country. They have to be, because our immigration rules are that strict.

Other than the standard "old money" types (which here goes back all of a few decades), in Calgary much of the more expensive real estate is being bought up by first generation Canadians. Some of the more "premium" neighbourhoods are just chock-full of them there colored types, while us po' white folk end up crowded into middle-class suburbia.
What? po' white folk? Have some respect.

I came here on refugee grounds with my family who were highly educated. We came with not one penny to our names, and two bags each of clothes. We have done pretty darn well. Personally Canada should take in more educated middle class individuals with compatible cultural backgrounds, be it via the refugee status or whatever. Bringing in so many wealthy immigrants is a horrible decision imo. Also nothing wrong with refugees, they are infact some of the best immigrants, hard working and loyal to their new country.
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  #1006  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2013, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by cornholio View Post
Not sure where you live but most homes are bought with cash by people from India and China and other third world to developing countries. These are corrupt massive countries that together hold about 40% of the world's total population and have some of the highest income and wealth disparities out there. Most of the immigrants are very very wealthy, the poor and middle class don't stand a chance to outbid the rich and connected. These are not your typical European immigrants from equal and lawfull middle class societies like in earlier decades.
Yes, and they go dump their money in high flight areas like Central London. As I said in my post foreign money only makes up to 11% of all RE volume in Canada. Period. Those oligarchs aren't flooding the Canadian RE market, some are.. yes, but not to the levels many believe to be the case.
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  #1007  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2013, 3:13 AM
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Originally Posted by cornholio View Post
Not sure where you live but most homes are bought with cash by people from India and China and other third world to developing countries. These are corrupt massive countries that together hold about 40% of the world's total population and have some of the highest income and wealth disparities out there. Most of the immigrants are very very wealthy, the poor and middle class don't stand a chance to outbid the rich and connected. These are not your typical European immigrants from equal and lawfull middle class societies like in earlier decades.
One of the most startling manifestations of this is all the 20-year-old Chinese kids in Waterloo driving around in $80,000 BMWs and Mercedes. Their parents are Communist party cadres or officials, or nouveau riche entrepreneurs, and their money is soaked in corruption and the blood of troublemakers like union activists or anyone else who doesn't toe the party line.

China averages 500 protests per day. The most epic social and economic transformation in the history of the world is happening there, and there is nowhere on earth that hasn't felt its effects.
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  #1008  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2013, 4:16 AM
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Isn't Waterloo about an hour from Toronto? I thought only white people (and Aboriginal people) lived an hour outside Toronto.
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  #1009  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2013, 7:40 AM
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Isn't Waterloo about an hour from Toronto? I thought only white people (and Aboriginal people) lived an hour outside Toronto.
All major cities in Ontario are pretty multi-racial.

Kitchener is about 500k
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  #1010  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2013, 5:17 PM
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Originally Posted by freeweed View Post
You're not racist, just very ignorant. Stop reading your news from the Sun, or listening to your retired uncle who whines about how all immigrants come here to collect welfare, or live 18 in a house.

Immigrants these days are some of the highest paid folks around. With the exception of a small handful who come in on refugee/family grounds, most immigrants are some of the most highly educated and highly trained people in the country. They have to be, because our immigration rules are that strict..
ORLY? From that crazy right-wing CBC:

Despite having generally higher levels of education, new Canadians earn less than their native-born peers and are less likely to have a job.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/stor...ts-report.html
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  #1011  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2013, 12:31 AM
cornholio cornholio is offline
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Originally Posted by osmo View Post
Yes, and they go dump their money in high flight areas like Central London. As I said in my post foreign money only makes up to 11% of all RE volume in Canada. Period. Those oligarchs aren't flooding the Canadian RE market, some are.. yes, but not to the levels many believe to be the case.
Period? That is a lie as there is no method to track this and it is not possible for this to be the case, you do know foreign money does not mean "foreigner" right? Canadian citizenship is easy to get, and is part of the whole goal when wealthy foreigners want to park their money here and establish a safe haven to run off to when things turn for the worse where they really are (i.e. insurance policy, like having canned food storred in your basement or a gun locked away). One only needs to see the market in places like Vancouver to know that a majority of buyers are not using money earned here, i.e. recent immigrants. Of course Canadians are still responsible for keeping the market afloat and the bubble growing and hence consumer debt has nearly doubled over the past decade and home ownership rates have grown to record highs. I suspect that part of the reason is that many honestly believe they may be priced out of the market, or see others around them have their property value inflate several times its purchase price. But at the end of the day it is a bubble and the biggest driving force is still going to be off shore money. But don't worry it will come to an end soon enough.
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  #1012  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2013, 1:08 AM
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Period? That is a lie as there is no method to track this and it is not possible for this to be the case, you do know foreign money does not mean "foreigner" right? Canadian citizenship is easy to get, and is part of the whole goal when wealthy foreigners want to park their money here and establish a safe haven to run off to when things turn for the worse where they really are (i.e. insurance policy, like having canned food storred in your basement or a gun locked away).
I think there's a lot of confusion when people talk about citizenship or "Canadians" in an abstract sense. When it comes to the informal real estate surveys or even publicly-subsidized post-secondary institutions, permanent residency is sufficient to count as "Canadian". I don't know if it's still true but my impression was that at one point the investor class PR track was just a matter of having a couple million dollars in cash and waiting a few months or a year. On top of this my impression is that Canada has looser anti-money-laundering rules than other countries like Australia. It all seems to select for exactly the sort of people who would bid up real estate in Vancouver or Toronto.

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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
One of the most startling manifestations of this is all the 20-year-old Chinese kids in Waterloo driving around in $80,000 BMWs and Mercedes. Their parents are Communist party cadres or officials, or nouveau riche entrepreneurs, and their money is soaked in corruption and the blood of troublemakers like union activists or anyone else who doesn't toe the party line.
I am not sure what should be done about this, if anything, but it is probably not a good thing that Canadians are incapable of meaningfully discussing anything related to immigration.
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  #1013  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2013, 2:08 AM
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The stats are available via RE boards themselves, they compile where homebuyers are coming from I.e. local, inter-province, out of province, out of country.

Lets take BC for example: In Vancouver only 6% of buyers originate outside of Canada, Victoria 3%, in both these markets we easily have the most uneasy stats coming out off them and no surprise these were the markets were the fictitious meme of off-shore Chinese
RE money originated. it's frankly a myth that just needs to die, the key thing fueling this ongoing myth of off-shore money is racism and it needs to stop.

It's Canadians whom got drunk off the debt and overpaid for these homes and condos. Canadian home ownership is at its highest levels in history while per capita debt loads are some of the highest in the developed world. Keep thinking its wealthy Chinese and Russian oligarchs in helicopters buying up all these homes, not a chance.

Maybe that helps Canadians sleep better at night thinking that, not sure. This is a made in Canada mess and foreigners have nothin to do with it.

Lastly, if it was a rush of off-shore cash we would of seen some massive things get built. Huge inter-continental bubbles usually always produce a supertall or two. Start digging around on the history of many (not all of course) super projects as you can almost see the crash that happens in said market a few years later.

If anything maybe it proves for Toronto at least it has some gas left since nothing massive has been built, I am in the camp that the two super projects of the Mirvish theatre and Oxford towers will be the last hurrah for Toronto in this current cycle.
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  #1014  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2013, 11:47 AM
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The stats are available via RE boards themselves, they compile where homebuyers are coming from I.e. local, inter-province, out of province, out of country.

............
First time I have ever heard that. I had understood that such information was not in fact compiled. Is there even a legal basis for doing so?
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  #1015  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2013, 1:13 PM
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You may have your own opinion but I stand by mine and my comment that most 500K + condos aren't being bought my immigrants. Now, this is what is important, I am talking about immigrants as a 2 parent/2 kid family that gets permits and move to canada NOT a 40 yrs old Chinese investor who buys a condo just as an investment but actual families who move here. Immigrants and Investors are two totally different things.


All in all, I was replying to the comment made by another poster saying "let more immigrants in to Canada so they buy these luxury condos in order to reduce the "outstanding" inventory. My point is; immigrants are not the primary buyers for these and letting more people in won't solve the problem.

Last edited by OTSkyline; Aug 6, 2013 at 1:50 PM.
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  #1016  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2013, 1:45 PM
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You may have your own opinion but I stand by mine and my comment that most 500K + condos are being bought my immigrants.
Without a doubt this is correct for new development around Bloor/Yorkville in Toronto.
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  #1017  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2013, 3:21 PM
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Originally Posted by osmo View Post
The stats are available via RE boards themselves, they compile where homebuyers are coming from I.e. local, inter-province, out of province, out of country.

Lets take BC for example: In Vancouver only 6% of buyers originate outside of Canada, Victoria 3%, in both these markets we easily have the most uneasy stats coming out off them and no surprise these were the markets were the fictitious meme of off-shore Chinese
RE money originated. it's frankly a myth that just needs to die, the key thing fueling this ongoing myth of off-shore money is racism and it needs to stop.

.
Terrible post.

This is the perfect antidote:

Some representatives of the real estate industry have long suggested that anybody who raises questions about foreign ownership of Metro property could be racist. But Vancouver planner Andy Yan believes this name-calling is misguided. “Whispers of racism should never be used to silence a desperately needed dialogue on the necessary actions to create a sustainable, livable, and just city”, he says... (bold mine)

...Working with sample data he dug up in part from the province, Yan has also discovered that 50 to 60 per cent of downtown condos are not inhabited by their owners.

They’re owned by investors, many of whom are holding on while wishing their value will rise.

Many of these investor-owned condos are rented out, says Yan, which can be positive in Vancouver’s tight rental markets. But they’re not affordable for most.
Yan notes how empty the streets often are around the luxury towers of Coal Harbour, where one in four condos are non-resident occupied.

It’s pretty. But Andy Yan notes how empty the streets often are around the luxury towers of Coal Harbour, where one in four condos are non-resident occupied.

In addition, roughly 15 per cent of the downtown condos Yan studied were either empty or occupied by non-permanent residents. These “non-resident-occupied” condos fail to contribute to a vibrant community or support businesses...


Lots of good stuff in the original (including a refutation of your claim the info is easy to find) here:

http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2013/0...a-zombie-city/
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  #1018  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2013, 3:48 PM
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Federal Government is again trying to tap down the Canadian Real Estate Market

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...googlenews_wsj
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  #1019  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2013, 4:08 PM
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Originally Posted by osmo View Post
The TERB is cooking the numbers and using faulty gimmicks to fluff up the stats. They have no base for what they are saying and are misleading people via the media. The
realtors boards inflate their sales numbers by comparing unadjusted raw current numbers against adjusted historic ones which is given the perception of better performances.

The price of a detached in Toronto actually dropped 8.5%, it did not rise as they claimed it did. The price surge they claim overall is fake, don't buy thier BS.

These real estate boards have zero credibility, they are spinning numbers and deceiving Canadians to fool them to continue take on risky debt to purchase tanking homes.

As a member of TREB I take issue with the comments you are making. The numbers are based on actual real estate sales and tell a very realistic picture of the market. These trends paint a picture and can be great indicators of how the real estate market is doing in any given area. You are fear mongering, people like you have been predicting this for years. Please just get realistic!
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  #1020  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2013, 8:08 PM
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What? po' white folk? Have some respect.
I was being incredibly tongue-in-cheek and mostly re-stating what you said in the rest of your post.

There's a perception among many Canadians that many or most immigrants are uneducated, penniless, and come here and sit on welfare. And act as a drain to the system. So that all the "good" neighbourhoods are full of hearty white stock, and all the poor areas are immigrant ghettos full of welfare bums. My experience has been the exact opposite. Most recent immigrants I know are incredibly hard-working and often end up better off than the so-called average Canadian.

Even if they do tend to earn less and take longer to find jobs, as the above CBC report mentions. But it's not because they're all coming here to leech off of our social programs, as the Sun implies. It's because it's a lot harder to find a decent job when you're "fresh off the boat", so to speak.

As I suspect you know far better than I do.
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