Whitecaps MLS news

[SpikePhanta]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Neither do I.

And yet the Grey Cup is the most-watched television program in Canada. More than 6 million people watched last year's Grey Cup from start to finish and more than 14 million people (43% of the population) watched part of the game: http://www.thestar.com/sports/footba...tings-champion

Your problem is you are committing the logical fallacy of assuming that what we play as children is what we will spend our entertainment dollars on as adults. This is a grave mistake.
I'm assuming eventually soccer will pass CFL, at lease in Montreal and Vancouver, I just never said when.

For instance, how many Vancouver kids do you personally know play ice hockey? Probably none. How many Vancouver elementary or secondary schools have ice hockey teams? Definitely none. Yet an ice hockey team is Vancouver's premiere professional sports franchise.

Actually I know quite a few kids that play hockey for Burnaby minor, BWC, NVWC, Vancouver Thunderbirds, vancouver minor.
No elementary school has ice hockey teams, elementary schools only have Volleyball and basketball teams really.
My secondary school has a team, and 5 other Vancouver public secondary schools have a team....


Soccer, by contrast, has always been one of the most widely played sports by kids in Vancouver. (It is not a new phenomenon, as you seem to think.) I grew up in the seventies and soccer was the main organized sport played during the fall. I and everyone I knew played soccer for our entire childhoods. Yet professional soccer (with a brief exception during the late seventies/early eighties) has largely failed to attract significant interest in Vancouver or North America.
Because we don't develop good talent and we don't have the best players.
What sports we play as children is mainly a function of what our parents find the least expensive to equip and the most physically beneficial. Soccer is that sport. But what we spend our entertainment dollars on as adults is purely a function of what we find entertaining to watch as adults. Unless it can evolve and improve itself (i.e., change certain rules to make the game more exciting and more palatable to North American sensibilities), soccer is not that sport for most people in North America.
So more violent? Anyways, I'm just saying that with large immigration and most likely hood that second generations/third generations of immigrants will more likely choose soccer. Don't get me wrong I don't hate the CFL, I like it and I defend it while talking to my friends from the US.

That said, there is a market for professional soccer in Vancouver, and with the arrival of MLS, interest in professional soccer will increase even more. But it is wishful thinking to hope that the Whitecaps FC will ever overtake the B.C. Lions in popularity.
If the white caps, succeed, get major talent, develop locally then they will become much more popular. It takes time to develop certain sports and that was the case with the NHL, and it will be the case with MLS. Don't forget MLS is still a pretty young league.

Bolded my responses.

Anyways don't get me wrong the CFL is a great product, its just eventually it will be surpassed by soccer in the Vancouver and Montreal area, its just the matter of when.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by SpikePhanta

Anyways don't get me wrong the CFL is a great product, its just eventually it will be surpassed by soccer in the Vancouver and Montreal area, its just the matter of when.

I understand that is your contention. But you have failed to provide any compelling evidence or argument to support it. North America is a continent of immigrants and has been absorbing immigrants and their tastes for centuries. Yet professional soccer has hitherto failed to excite the imaginations of North Americans. Thus, pointing to more immigration is unpersuasive.

MLS in Vancouver might be new, but soccer isn't. Professional and amateur soccer has existed here for generations. The Whitecaps, in one form or another, have existed for almost thirty years and children's soccer has been one of the most widely-played sports in B.C. for even longer. Yet professional soccer has hitherto failed to command significant attention or attract a significant ticket-buying fanbase in all these years. Thus, claiming that soccer just needs more time to catch-on is groundless. It has had plenty of time.

The problem that professional soccer has in North America is not a lack of immigrants or lack of time to develop. It has had plenty of each. The problem with soccer is the game of soccer itself. To the vast majority of North Americans, soccer is just not a very exciting game to watch. Thus, it's not something that many North Americans want to spend their money on, especially when there are much more exciting alternatives.

That said, I think there is a market for MLS in Vancouver. But to claim that MLS will overtake the CFL in popularity or market share is preposterous and demonstrates a fundamental miscalculation.

P.S.: In a past post, I think you indicated you are originally from Montreal. If that's correct, it's remarkable how out of touch you seem with the cultural landscape of your own region. Nowhere in Canada are all levels of football (high school, CIS and CFL) more popular than in Quebec. For instance, in the CIS, 20,000 tickets were sold for the Laval v. Western game yesterday. In the CFL, the Montreal Alouettes sell out every regular-season game at Percival Molson Stadium (25,000), and today they sold out Olympic Stadium (60,000) for the Eastern Division Final. If they hope to overtake the Alouettes for popularity, the Montreal Impact, which now average 11,000 per game, have their work cut out for them.

P.P.S.: I have been watching the MLS championship game this evening. BMO Field has a capacity of only 22,000 and is located in the heart of Toronto, a city of 5 million, with a much stronger European immigrant population than Vancouver. Despite this, there are many empty seats. Empty seats at the championship game! In a stadium that holds only 22,000! It's a little embarrassing.

[SpikePhanta]

Nope I am not from Montreal, my family is from France and I was born there.
I just love Montreal and its people, quebecois are awesome!
Also don't forget the Concacaf attracted 55,571 in hockey season! For the Montreal Impact, not a very high level of soccer.
Also I did underestimate the Alouettes, even for a fairly young team (1996 I think) With their winning seasons, they built a pretty strong fanbase. But who knows what would have happen if they stayed in Olympic stadium and that U2 concert never happen.
You're underestimating Toronto though! Toronto attracts 20,000 fans to each home game, third in attendance behind Seattle and Los Angeles. The final game was between two unknown teams, hence why tv ratings aren't that high aswell. We won't know the true attendance record until they are released.

Here is some article you might find amusing.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/20/sp...cer/20mls.html

[bigE]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

MLS in Vancouver might be new, but soccer isn't. Professional and amateur soccer has existed here for generations. The Whitecaps, in one form or another, have existed for almost thirty years

Yes! and you seem to be oblivious to the fact that back in the late '70s and early '80s, the last time the Whitecaps played top division soccer, they averaged 25,000 per game and were far more popular than the Lions. Considering they've already nearly sold their target of 16500 season tickets and only technically signed their first player last week, there's no reason to think they wont be a huge hit and drastically change this city's sports scene.

Just look at Seattle. In their 2 years since joining MLS they average 36,000 (with plans to increase capacity to 40,000 for next year) a game and most would argue they've overtaken the Mariners as Seattle's #2 team behind the Seahawks. Vancouver had better attendance than them in the NASL days before the league folded, and better attendance in recent years than them in Div2.

The Lions have done well off the field in recent years because they've had success on the field. Another season or two like the one they just had and lets see where they're at now that they have some competition.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

I understand that is your contention. But you have failed to provide any compelling evidence or argument to support it. North America is a continent of immigrants and has been absorbing immigrants and their tastes for centuries. Yet professional soccer has hitherto failed to excite the imaginations of North Americans. Thus, pointing to more immigration is unpersuasive.

MLS in Vancouver might be new, but soccer isn't. Professional and amateur soccer has existed here for generations. The Whitecaps, in one form or another, have existed for almost thirty years and children's soccer has been one of the most widely-played sports in B.C. for even longer. Yet professional soccer has hitherto failed to command significant attention or attract a significant ticket-buying fanbase in all these years. Thus, claiming that soccer just needs more time to catch-on is groundless. It has had plenty of time.

The problem that professional soccer has in North America is not a lack of immigrants or lack of time to develop. It has had plenty of each. The problem with soccer is the game of soccer itself. To the vast majority of North Americans, soccer is just not a very exciting game to watch. Thus, it's not something that many North Americans want to spend their money on, especially when there are much more exciting alternatives.

That said, I think there is a market for MLS in Vancouver. But to claim that MLS will overtake the CFL in popularity or market share is preposterous and demonstrates a fundamental miscalculation.

P.S.: In a past post, I think you indicated you are originally from Montreal. If that's correct, it's remarkable how out of touch you seem with the cultural landscape of your own region. Nowhere in Canada are all levels of football (high school, CIS and CFL) more popular than in Quebec. For instance, in the CIS, 20,000 tickets were sold for the Laval v. Western game yesterday. In the CFL, the Montreal Alouettes sell out every regular-season game at Percival Molson Stadium (25,000), and today they sold out Olympic Stadium (60,000) for the Eastern Division Final. If they hope to overtake the Alouettes for popularity, the Montreal Impact, which now average 11,000 per game, have their work cut out for them.

P.P.S.: I have been watching the MLS championship game this evening. BMO Field has a capacity of only 22,000 and is located in the heart of Toronto, a city of 5 million, with a much stronger European immigrant population than Vancouver. Despite this, there are many empty seats. Empty seats at the championship game! In a stadium that holds only 22,000! It's a little embarrassing.

Your correct. Soccer in Vancouver isn't new. And there are plenty of immigrants that have come through to our beautiful city, and still soccer in this town hasn't caught on, for some particular reason. I think it has to do with the level of competition that is being played. Soccer is widely played, and I think a lot of those kids when they grow up, still have a love for the game, and a love for the sport, given the chance to play it when older. With that being said, the level of professional soccer played here in this province was not very high, (NASL? Gimme a break), up until they're moving into MLS, which, with it's branding, and marketing, is north america's highest level of soccer. With time, I think MLS is going to be a larger and more profitable organization than the CFL will ever be. Is MLS going to be THE highest level of soccer played on the planet? Probably never, because that title will always belong in Europe, where soccer is king.

Soccer itself doesn't need time to catch up. But Major League Soccer does. The brand of soccer, that this continent hasn't had for a long time. You could argue that MLS has been around for a while, and yes, it has, but it hasn't until recently, where the organization has begun to catch on with the people (in the US, and now in Canada). I guess we'll see how far MLS can go, and whether it can capture the hearts and imaginations of the north american people.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by bigE

Yes! and you seem to be oblivious to the fact that back in the late '70s and early '80s, the last time the Whitecaps played top division soccer, they averaged 25,000 per game and were far more popular than the Lions. Considering they've already nearly sold their target of 16500 season tickets and only technically signed their first player last week, there's no reason to think they wont be a huge hit and drastically change this city's sports scene.

Just look at Seattle. In their 2 years since joining MLS they average 36,000 (with plans to increase capacity to 40,000 for next year) a game and most would argue they've overtaken the Mariners as Seattle's #2 team behind the Seahawks. Vancouver had better attendance than them in the NASL days before the league folded, and better attendance in recent years than them in Div2.

The Lions have done well off the field in recent years because they've had success on the field. Another season or two like the one they just had and lets see where they're at now that they have some competition.

I agree with most of your post, but the last bolded bit, I think if any of the teams had bad years, and they've had them multiple years, then they would struggle at the gate. very few fans would attend games when the team is struggling for a number of years. we don't need to look very far to see what happened to the grizzlies when they were here. 6 years of losing 50 plus games every year, will decipate any team's attendance.

with that being said. i don't hate the lions. i want them to do well, because it will only foster competition between the clubs (the whitecaps fc, and lions). with all being said, i think the caps will have a slight advantage in their first year at MLS, only because they are the NEWEST thing in town. after the newness wears off, the club will have to win more games, and be better, because they won't be able to hang onto the "newest thing in town" for very long.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by bigE

you seem to be oblivious to the fact that back in the late '70s and early '80s, the last time the Whitecaps played top division soccer, they averaged 25,000 per game and were far more popular than the Lions.

I guess it could seem that way to someone who joins a conversation midstream and is too lazy to read one page back. Let me quote myself from post # 295: "Yet professional soccer (with a brief exception during the late seventies/early eighties) has largely failed to attract significant interest in Vancouver..."

Moreover, your assertion that the Whitecaps were more popular than the B.C. Lions during soccer's golden age in the late '70s and early '80s is totally contradicted by the facts. From 1977 to 1982, the Whitecaps in fact had an average attendance of only 19,817. The B.C. Lions, by contrast, had an average attendance of 25,000 during the same period (which was the darkest period in club history). The Whitecaps' average attendance peaked in 1983 at 29,166 when they moved from Empire Stadium into the brand new B.C. Place. The B.C. Lions, by stark contrast, had an average attendance of more than 45,000 in 1983.

It's not even close.

Source: http://homepages.sover.net/~spectrum...standings.html
Source: http://www.bclions.com/uploads/asset...Attendance.pdf

Regarding the Seattle Sounders FC, their attendance is impressive. But their attendance is also an extreme outlier and is not in any way representative of MLS's average attendance. The average attendance across the league in 2010 (the year of the World Cup) was only 16,000. Moreover, the majority of teams in 2010 saw their average attendance actually decline or stay the same in relation to 2009.

After Seattle, average attendance in 2010 looks as follows:

2. Toronto FC: 20,655

3. Philadelphia: 20,345

4. Los Angeles: 20,319

5. New York: 17,424

6. Houston: 17,060

7. Real Salt Lake: 16,755

8. Chicago: 15,485

9. Chivas USA: 14,268

10. Columbus: 14,173

11. D.C. United: 13,365

12. Colorado: 13,157

13. New England: 11,813

14. FC Dallas: 10,888

15. Kansas City: 10,109

16. San Jose: 9,637

Source: http://www.socceramerica.com/article...-the-rise.html

Ouch! And don't forget that some of these cities, such as Toronto, Chicago, Los Angeles and New York, have metro populations of 5 million, 10 million, 15 million and 20 million, respectively!

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by Vancity

Soccer itself doesn't need time to catch up. But Major League Soccer does. The brand of soccer, that this continent hasn't had for a long time. You could argue that MLS has been around for a while, and yes, it has, but it hasn't until recently, where the organization has begun to catch on with the people (in the US, and now in Canada). I guess we'll see how far MLS can go, and whether it can capture the hearts and imaginations of the north american people.

Well, have a look at the average MLS attendance records that I posted above for 2010 and judge for yourself. You might be a little disappointed.

[WarrenC12]

^^^^^^

And compare it to the CFL numbers. Even this year in a smaller facility, the Lions were around 23,000/game. In BC Place, they are around 27-29k/game in recent memory.

I don't know why people seem to think the Whitecaps outdrew the Lions in the 80s. For many years after BC Place opened, the Lions had great teams and drew huge attendance.

Check the record books, the 80s was a heyday for the Lions, they drew mid-40s to most games.

A good team and a new stadium bump could easily give the Lions an average of mid-30s in 2011/2012.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

I guess it could seem that way to someone who joins a conversation midstream and is too lazy to read one page back. Let me quote myself from post # 295: "Yet professional soccer (with a brief exception during the late seventies/early eighties) has largely failed to attract significant interest in Vancouver..."

Regarding the Seattle Sounders FC, their attendance is impressive. But their attendance is also an extreme exception and is not in any way representative of MLS's average attendance. The average attendance across the league in 2010 (the year of the World Cup) was only 16,000. Moreover, the majority of teams in 2010 saw their average attendance decline or stay the same in relation to 2009.

After Seattle, average attendance in 2010 looks as follows:

2. Toronto FC: 20,655

3. Philadelphia: 20,345

4. Los Angeles: 20,319

5. New York: 17,424

6. Houston: 17,060

7. Real Salt Lake: 16,755

8. Chicago: 15,485

9. Chivas USA: 14,268

10. Columbus: 14,173

11. D.C. United: 13,365

12. Colorado: 13,157

13. New England: 11,813

14. FC Dallas: 10,888

15. Kansas City: 10,109

16. San Jose: 9,637

Source: http://www.socceramerica.com/article...-the-rise.html

Ouch! And don't forget that some of these cities, such as Toronto, Chicago, Los Angeles and New York, have metro populations of 5 million, 10 million, 15 million and 20 million, respectively!

Let's not forget that North America is not the hotbed of soccer. Europe is. What needs to be understood is that there are many sports vying for the north american people. In the USA, it's baseball, american football, basketball, NASCAR, even hockey is there on the radar. Soccer is another sport trying to capture the people's interest. It's no surprise then, that the figures you've posted in certain markets, are rather small. Given time, hopefully, the game of soccer, aka "the beautiful game" will develop and capture interest in the USA, and also up here all across Canada. Soccer is not a new sport. That much, we can agree on. However, I still think MLS will become a larger entity, as a sporting organization, than the CFL ever will. The CFL is regulated ONLY in Canada, hence their organizational name, and brand the "Canadian Football League".

Those cities you've mentioned above that have 5-20 million people, also have 8-10 professional teams. LA has the Lakers & the Clippers (professional basketball), the LA Kings (professional hockey), LA Dodgers (professional baseball), the LA Sparks (Women's professional basketball), and the LA Galaxy (professional soccer). In Los Angeles area alone, there are 6 professional sports teams trying to attract the interest of the local people. This is if your only counting Los Angeles, and not Sacramento area, or the Bay Area - in that, case, you'd be adding a few more teams to that list.

NY has the following teams: NY Yankees (pro baseball), NY Mets (pro baseball), NY Giants (pro american football), NY Jets (pro football), NY Knicks (pro basketball), NJ Devils (pro hockey), NY Islanders (pro hockey), NY Rangers (pro hockey), and the NY Red Bulls (pro soccer). That's 10 teams right there in NY, a city population of 8.3 million (via 2009 stats), an urban population of 18.2 million people, and a metro population of 19 million people.

I could list the other cities, and their professional sports teams, but I think my point is made, in that there is competition with regards to the sports clubs in those cities. 20 million people, but not all of them have an interest in sports, let alone in soccer. Some may love basketball, others american football, and yet others, hockey. Unlike Europe, where the dominant sport is 'football'.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

^^^^^^

In BC Place, [the Lions] are around 27-29k/game in recent memory.

Actually, recent average attendance for the Lions has been much higher than that.

2005: 32,614

2006: 31,190

2007: 32,456

2008: 34,083

Source: http://www.bclions.com/uploads/asset...Attendance.pdf

We should see a significant increase in those numbers when the Lions return to a renovated B.C. Place with its new retractable roof, especially if they put together a winning team with an exciting offence.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by Vancity

Let's not forget that North America is not the hotbed of soccer. Europe is.

Forget? This has been precisely my point all along. And you keep failing to provide any compelling argument or evidence that this state of affairs will ever change. Thus, your assertion that the Whitecaps will overtake the B.C. Lions in popularity and market share is without any rational foundation and amounts to nothing more than a personal wish.

You are grasping at straws.

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Regarding the Seattle Sounders FC, their attendance is impressive. But their attendance is also an extreme outlier and is not in any way representative of MLS's average attendance. The average attendance across the league in 2010 (the year of the World Cup) was only 16,000. Moreover, the majority of teams in 2010 saw their average attendance actually decline or stay the same in relation to 2009.

Seattle has a culture and a climate similar to ours. Seattle (and Toronto) were probably seen as litmus tests by the league to determine whether a franchise in Vancouver would succeed.

Seattle's success probably has a lot to do with being in a temperate climate that's most conducive playing soccer for most of the year (not too hot in the summer, yet not too cold in the winter) and the fact that the Seahawks and Mariners suck and the Sonics bolted.

Originally Posted by Vancity

Let's not forget that North America is not the hotbed of soccer. Europe is.

Let's also not forget that the CFL is not the NFL, and consists of second tier players who did not make the cut in the latter.

[agrant]

Let's also not forget the players in MLS are equivalent to 2nd or 3rd tier players in Europe. Last time I checked, 2nd and 3rd tier soccer attendances in Europe are pretty much on par with MLS attendances. Like I said - If we had world class players, preferably home grown, the interest in attending games would no doubt increase.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by agrant

Let's also not forget the players in MLS are equivalent to 2nd or 3rd tier players in Europe. Last time I checked, 2nd and 3rd tier soccer attendances in Europe are pretty much on par with MLS attendances. Like I said - If we had world class players, preferably home grown, the interest in attending games would no doubt increase.

No doubt that MLS has a lot of 2nd or even 3rd tier players. Many of them wouldn't make it to the big leagues in Europe. With that being said, you've got to start somewhere, in terms of developing world class players. They don't just come out of nowhere. The USA's a good case in point, in that they've made strides, and improvements over the last few years in developing solid players, who can compete in the European leagues. I don't think that MLS will ever get to the point that the Premier Leagues are in (they are in a class in themselves), and if they do, it's going to be a long, long time coming. All I'm saying is that with MLS, the potential to be the 2nd most popular team in Vancouver is there. I'm not saying that they WILL be, I'm saying they CAN be. If MLS product continues to improve on the field, and they make an impact off the field, there's no reason why they cannot surpass the Lions in popularity. Will it happen? I don't know, but I'm saying there's competition between those two clubs (Lions and 'Caps). In one sense, yes, they both play in "2nd tier" leagues, mainly because the better leagues are elsewhere (in football, it's the NFL down south, that's where all the world's best players go to play; and in soccer, it's Europe). But for North America, MLS IS the best place to play soccer. In the world - definitely Europe. CFL is the best place to play football IN Canada. In the world? There's nowhere else better to play than the NFL, which is in the good ol' US of A.

MLS has potential to develop some world class soccer players, given time (and who knows how long that time may be?). They've already developed some solid homegrown talents, and the USA is beginning to make a mark in world soccer. Maybe Major League Soccer is a bust league in the future, maybe not. I dont have a crystal ball, so I don't know, but all I do know is that it's exciting to have a new franchise in a fairly young league, making some strides in developing young, local talent. Hopefully, that translates into keeping young talented canadian soccer players at home. Good for them. Good for the national team too.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Forget? This has been precisely my point all along. And [B]you keep failing to provide any compelling argument or evidence that this state of affairs will ever change. Thus, your assertion that the Whitecaps will overtake the B.C. Lions in popularity and market share is without any rational foundation and amounts to nothing more than a personal wish.[/B]

You are grasping at straws.

Maybe it is a personal wish that the 'Caps would overtake the Lions in popularity in Vancouver. So What?

I'm not saying that the 'Caps WILL overtake the Lions. I've said that they (meaning the Lions), have competition. The 'Caps could potentially be the 2nd most popular team in the city. I'm just saying that they could be. That's all.

[djmk]

for those of you that purchased deposits....

where are you going to sit? Season tickets go on sale soon.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by Vancity

I'm not saying that the 'Caps WILL overtake the Lions. I've said that they (meaning the Lions), have competition. The 'Caps could potentially be the 2nd most popular team in the city. I'm just saying that they could be. That's all.

Fair enough. And I wish MLS all the best.

But in order to increase its chances of finding greater success in North America, my advice to MLS is as follows:

Unlike European soccer (which seems rigid and inflexible even in the face of obvious shortcomings), MLS must be open to change. Specifically, it must be willing to change or adapt certain rules and traditions in a way that will make soccer more exciting and palatable to North American tastes.

For example:

1) It must aggressively act to eliminate the culture of diving, faking and embellishment. To the North American sensibility, such behaviour is deceitful and dishonourable and a real turn off. I know many people who refuse to watch soccer for that reason alone. Although such behaviour occurs sometimes in North American sports, it is always frowned upon and considered very uncool and penalized heavily.

2) Similar to the above, the culture of exaggerating one's pain and suffering must be discouraged. Playing-up one's pain and weakness in order to gain sympathy is contrary to the North American ethos, which celebrates strength, toughness and resiliency. In North American football, after taking a massive hit, a player's instinctive reaction (assuming he is still conscious) is to immediately jump-up and act as if nothing happened, as if to say to his opponent: "Is that all you got? That's pathetic. You hit like my grandmother!" When North Americans see European soccer players rolling around on the ground, crying like babies, playing-up their pain (which is often fake), it completely turns them off. It is considered unmanly and unworthy of respect.

3) MLS must introduce some degree of video review in order to overturn incorrect calls by the referee. Allowing an obvious miscall to go uncorrected (like we saw numerous times in the World Cup this summer) is incompatible with the North American sense of justice. One of the most important things to the North American sporting mind is to get the call right, even when it goes against your own team.

The above are just a few of the cultural shortcomings of European soccer. I also think there are a number of rules that could be changed to cultivate and encourage more exciting play, like, for instance, moving the penalty shot position further back, thereby making such a shot more suspenseful, as opposed to the fait accompli that it is now.

Although many North Americans simply find soccer to be inherently unexciting (e.g. lots of inconsequential running around at midfield, limited scoring opportunities, low scores, etc.), MLS would significantly increase the attractiveness of its product in North American eyes and thus increase its chances of success here, if it were to make just the few changes suggested above.

Adapt to your environment and flourish, or remain intransigent and die: that's the lesson MLS needs to grasp.

[red-paladin]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Unlike European soccer (which seems rigid and inflexible even in the face of obvious shortcomings), MLS must be open to change. Specifically, it must be willing to change or adapt certain rules and traditions in a way that will make soccer more exciting and palatable to North American tastes.

I don't know. Even though I am one of the people who think the Whitecaps won't ever be very successful, I think changing the rules of Soccer, which is standard worldwide, would be even worse, as all the local fans of legitimate Soccer would have that much more reason to avoid the new 'North American Soccer' that you would have created.

[cc85]

for those that have deposits, have you been notified by the club yet?