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  #81  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2012, 7:49 PM
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It is kind of insane. On that same block there's a 4 storey "Clayton Park Special" apartment building or condo built only a few years ago. It was a real disappointment for such an interesting site, but now it's being followed up by a development that's probably got four or five times as many units. The North End has similarly changed dramatically -- nothing happened there for years and now it's hot. I think it's great.
The whole area from north of the MacDonald, across to NSCC woodside, and inland up to Banook and the Hawthorn school area, I think this is about to explode, it is the most exciting area right now.

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Does the developer of this site own the canal itself, or would the daylighting be a public component? It seems totally reasonable to include daylighting as part of a project of this scale.
HRM owns the Starr property needed for the canal site - see below. I strongly support investing in this project from Dartmouth Cove to Sullivan's Pond.

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The canal is one of Dartmouth's most interesting and historic features and right now it's mostly wasted. The park along Prince Albert Road is a dud too. It should be so much more than a field with a path on it.
There is a plan but it keeps not being funded. All up it might be $20 million over 5-7 years, but a high end quality job tying the waterfront to the lake and canal system will really be the icing on the cake of the renewal of Dartmouth Centre. http://www.halifax.ca/RealPropertyPl...rtJune2006.PDF

Blue belongs to HRM:

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  #82  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2012, 9:28 PM
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There is a plan but it keeps not being funded. All up it might be $20 million over 5-7 years, but a high end quality job tying the waterfront to the lake and canal system will really be the icing on the cake of the renewal of Dartmouth Centre.
Maybe the key is to add in a subterranean complex of half a dozen or so ice rinks. We could even name them after Gloria McCluskey.

In any case, if the canal is system is restored to a high level of quality you can imagine this area becoming an attraction of regional importance for locals and tourists. It's a great piece of history and complements the existing ferry service, existing downtown businesses, and all the new stuff that will come in as a result of these other developments. Downtown Dartmouth used to be pretty crappy but I can imagine people taking a day to walk along the canal, do some shopping, and go out to a restaurant if the places exist. I can also imagine lots of people who work downtown living there and commuting on the ferry.

From the point of view of HRM's bottom line, putting a lot of development in downtown Dartmouth is also a great deal. It's a bit more affordable so people can probably get about the same amount of space as they could out in Bedford West but the infrastructure is mostly already there. The savings over a 30 year period of putting 5,000 people in downtown Dartmouth vs. a new suburban area must be huge. Just think of how much money has been sunk into Clayton Park West and environs (Washmill, Mainland Common/Canada Games Centre...), which has maybe 40,000 people.
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  #83  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2012, 8:56 PM
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Recent discussion on CBC about this site. Looks like there is another public meeting occuring tonight - so show up!
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  #84  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2012, 9:33 PM
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The CBC must have a template for these "I am pro development, but not by my house" articles. All you'd have to do is change the development name and make up a new resident. You could photoshop angry people into google streetview images for the little pictures.
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  #85  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2012, 9:40 PM
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One can only hope Glorious McCroskey doesn't try her famous short-circuit tactics that she has successfully used in the past to torpedo this development without going to a proper public hearing.
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  #86  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2012, 10:28 PM
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The CBC live blog has a few photos, but I have to agree. They seem to have the typical cookie cutter article. That said, the anti-nimby postings (which I've added a few and quite happy to do so) seem to be quite out numbering the typically NIMBY arguments, which is good.

Considering the photos in the CBC thread, I think there might be a good showing of people in support of the application.
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  #87  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2012, 11:16 PM
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Wow, judging by the photos on the CBC blog the proposal design has changed...
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  #88  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 12:05 AM
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Wow, judging by the photos on the CBC blog the proposal design has changed...
Yes, and not for the better IMO. It appears very hulking, no point towers here, just a bunch of large boxes right to the property lines. I do not like it.
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  #89  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 1:32 AM
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Yes, and not for the better IMO. It appears very hulking, no point towers here, just a bunch of large boxes right to the property lines. I do not like it.
I couldn't see it very well on my computer - so I'd like to see a better image. Hopefully the HRM website will have something soon.
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  #90  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 2:49 AM
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I went this evening and it was an interesting room (quite a mix of people). I spoke in favour, with the provision that the design needs some tweaks. The current design has become very bulky. The Wentworth is not so much behind Greenvale School as it is overtop of it. A big long rectangle that should be slimmer so that you can actually see around it. It baffles me too that they want to use the exact same materials on the shorter Fairbanks building on the other side of Irishtown. It's like they get a bulk discount or something. Rather than have twins, they should do something different with the Fairbanks to make it interesting. At street level, the Fairbanks is a bit of a mess because it actually has a lot of frontage, but like too many modern building it's one long uniform slab of regularly spaced identical windows and doors. For a location like this, a Founders Corner or Vic like approach should be taken where, at street level, the building is made to feel like several buildings because the facade, materials, windows and doors are varied. A more interesting streetscape would reflect the scale of the surrounding buildings and its Downtown setting.
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  #91  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 3:08 AM
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I can't see it very well from the pictures on the CBC blog - but if it is one big block, then I'd definitely agree. Point towers in this case would be more appropriate with the bulk of the massing at close to grade and then a good separation between buildings.
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  #92  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 3:27 AM
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I can't see it very well from the pictures on the CBC blog - but if it is one big block, then I'd definitely agree. Point towers in this case would be more appropriate with the bulk of the massing at close to grade and then a good separation between buildings.
Have the renderings changed since these were posted - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/docum...rspectives.pdf? Here is a link to the halifax.ca details page - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/Case17849Details.html
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  #93  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 10:58 AM
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Have the renderings changed since these were posted - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/docum...rspectives.pdf? Here is a link to the halifax.ca details page - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/Case17849Details.html
Wow, the tower really is out of place, and dwarfs Greenvale. I like the other two buildings no problem, that just doesn't look right. I wonder what kind of wind and other impacts that will have to the Shubie/Starr greenway space.

Twitter is saying most people at the meeting were in favor of development but were worried about that tower and how it is sited. This is the same community (and some of the same speakers) that were pro Dartmouth Cove and pro Kings Wharf, so it is interesting to see this resistance, it is not simple knee jerk NIMBY.

Interesting question from the Herald why "only be three three-bedroom units among the buildings."
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  #94  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by spaustin View Post
I went this evening and it was an interesting room (quite a mix of people). I spoke in favour, with the provision that the design needs some tweaks. The current design has become very bulky. The Wentworth is not so much behind Greenvale School as it is overtop of it. A big long rectangle that should be slimmer so that you can actually see around it. It baffles me too that they want to use the exact same materials on the shorter Fairbanks building on the other side of Irishtown. It's like they get a bulk discount or something. Rather than have twins, they should do something different with the Fairbanks to make it interesting. At street level, the Fairbanks is a bit of a mess because it actually has a lot of frontage, but like too many modern building it's one long uniform slab of regularly spaced identical windows and doors. For a location like this, a Founders Corner or Vic like approach should be taken where, at street level, the building is made to feel like several buildings because the facade, materials, windows and doors are varied. A more interesting streetscape would reflect the scale of the surrounding buildings and its Downtown setting.
Spaustin, your thoughts are bang-on. they need to make changes, not fill the complete footprint, and give Greenvale some breathing space. Interesting that most of the people who attended the meeting were against the development, and most of the on-line comments on various sites are pro the development.
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  #95  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 12:33 PM
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Have the renderings changed since these were posted - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/docum...rspectives.pdf? Here is a link to the halifax.ca details page - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/Case17849Details.html
I have to say that there is nothing very inspiring about those perspective photos. Perhaps the materials would be better in person, but the form looks pretty bizarre where it addresses (or doesn't address) the Greenvale School. They should be required to go taller and thin the towers out.
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  #96  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 3:08 PM
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It seems to me that the step back in cases like this should be relative to Greenvale-like neighbours rather than to the street. There's a bigger impact on the nearby buildings and if that was addressed maybe the reaction would be different.
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  #97  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 3:55 PM
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Interesting that most of the people who attended the meeting were against the development, and most of the on-line comments on various sites are pro the development.
That's actually common. Most of the people who are pro-development have jobs and are too busy working and with their personal life to attend these events.

The anti-development crowd: too much time on their hands, stalling everybody's growth and prosperity. Assholes.
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  #98  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 4:44 PM
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That's actually common. Most of the people who are pro-development have jobs and are too busy working and with their personal life to attend these events.

The anti-development crowd: too much time on their hands, stalling everybody's growth and prosperity. Assholes.
Ya think? probably more likely that the folks who went to the meeting work at a job and then decide to get out to a community meeting, whereas the others were too lazy to get off their asses and leave their computer screens. Just sayin'
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  #99  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 5:25 PM
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That's actually common. Most of the people who are pro-development have jobs and are too busy working and with their personal life to attend these events.

The anti-development crowd: too much time on their hands, stalling everybody's growth and prosperity. Assholes.
Man, I think you are reading this dead wrong. Being anti-one development does not make you anti-all development.

Dartmouth has been far more receptive of development, within 300 meters even, of that site. But people have concerns about this proposal, concerns many of us on this message board share. Your generalization is just as bad as the anti-everything crowds generalization of developers and those that support them. Not productive.
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  #100  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 5:31 PM
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Dartmouth has been far more receptive of development, within 300 meters even, of that site. But people have concerns about this proposal, concerns many of us on this message board share.
I don't like the massing and scale of this proposal or the materials. I think they can do a lot better. It's got nothing to do with height though, and actually the height gives the developer the flexibility to have better massing given a certain number of units.

I wasn't at the public meeting so I don't know what the tone was like, but often the terms of debate are wrong. Sometimes members of the public and even councillors (e.g. Gloria McCluskey) treat the meetings as "yea or nay" popularity contests rather than a dialogue on what aspects of the development can be improved. I think this accounts for a huge amount of the friction that exists and it may even result in lower quality development, since a short-circuited process often results in developers running to the NSUARB and then building what they wanted.
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