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  #101  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2016, 8:08 PM
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PHX PHX is offline
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Mdpx must have been drunk when he posted that otherwise he is a total moron.
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  #102  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 5:53 PM
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Originally Posted by HX_Guy View Post
Seriously...I'm with PHX31 on this one. I get the preservation and all that but at the end of the day, if I buy a piece of land downtown and it has a building on it, it's my business what I do with it. If you wanted something different for it, then you should have bought it.
That may be true, but when you enter into negotiations with the city and present a plan and expect to get feedback, you don't preemptively destroy it and then hold people hostage by saying if you don't like it, we'll destroy the whole fucking thing. They could have bought any other site without an historic or significant or nice or beloved building. They chose that one. They owe the residents, especially the ones in the area, who, for some terrible reason, care about this building. And, no I don't have to buy it myself. Have you ever felt bad that building was torn down that was significant? Did you say to yourself, oh well, they have right to do anything they want. Toxic dump, whorehouse? Why even bother...
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  #103  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 6:42 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by mdpx View Post
That may be true, but when you enter into negotiations with the city and present a plan and expect to get feedback, you don't preemptively destroy it and then hold people hostage by saying if you don't like it, we'll destroy the whole fucking thing. They could have bought any other site without an historic or significant or nice or beloved building. They chose that one. They owe the residents, especially the ones in the area, who, for some terrible reason, care about this building. And, no I don't have to buy it myself. Have you ever felt bad that building was torn down that was significant? Did you say to yourself, oh well, they have right to do anything they want. Toxic dump, whorehouse? Why even bother...
Holding people hostage? Dramatic much?

"If you aren't carful I'll tear down the building I own and that you have no actual stake in besides your emotional attachment" what?
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  #104  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 6:54 PM
dtnphx dtnphx is offline
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Holding people hostage? Dramatic much?

"If you aren't carful I'll tear down the building I own and that you have no actual stake in besides your emotional attachment" what?
At least the guy is passionate about preservation. You've added nothing but snark. Have at it. I'm sure you're thinkin' of something clever.
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  #105  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 7:18 PM
azliam azliam is offline
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Originally Posted by mdpx View Post
That may be true, but when you enter into negotiations with the city and present a plan and expect to get feedback, you don't preemptively destroy it and then hold people hostage by saying if you don't like it, we'll destroy the whole fucking thing. They could have bought any other site without an historic or significant or nice or beloved building. They chose that one. They owe the residents, especially the ones in the area, who, for some terrible reason, care about this building. And, no I don't have to buy it myself. Have you ever felt bad that building was torn down that was significant? Did you say to yourself, oh well, they have right to do anything they want. Toxic dump, whorehouse? Why even bother...
I would have liked to see the entire building preserved. However, if the purpose for the further discussions was to "come to an agreement" or simply provide feedback, then why would the association presumably want to bring litigation into it unless it was all or nothing for them? That certainly isn't acting in good faith and is also a form of holding someone hostage. The developer already (initially) brought partial preservation to the table.
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  #106  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 7:27 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by dtnphx View Post
At least the guy is passionate about preservation. You've added nothing but snark. Have at it. I'm sure you're thinkin' of something clever.
Not at all, As I have said from the beginning the obsession over circles makes no sense to me.

If I was the land owner I would have already torn it down. I think its a stupid building to be preserving.
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  #107  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 8:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Not at all, As I have said from the beginning the obsession over circles makes no sense to me.

If I was the land owner I would have already torn it down. I think its a stupid building to be preserving.
As long as we're clear that that's how YOU feel. Others can and do feel differently than you and should be free to express it just as you have.
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  #108  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 8:43 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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You all should argue more.
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  #109  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 9:26 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by dtnphx View Post
As long as we're clear that that's how YOU feel. Others can and do feel differently than you and should be free to express it just as you have.
Yeah but in this case, I'm right and the preservasionistas are wrong. And hysterical
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  #110  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 3:52 AM
ASUSunDevil ASUSunDevil is offline
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Yeah but in this case, I'm right and the preservasionistas are wrong. And hysterical
You're not alone. There's a large amount of excessive spazzing when it comes to Circles
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  #111  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 7:19 AM
Spitfiredude Spitfiredude is offline
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Jeez...it is what it is. Can you guys message each other at this point. Azcentral said building is partially destroyed, developer has stopped demolition. Two pages of bickering. Relax kids. Its a development forum, not debate forum. Moderator should make another thread for this project. Annoying.
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  #112  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 11:02 AM
vwwolfe vwwolfe is offline
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Originally Posted by mdpx View Post
That may be true, but when you enter into negotiations with the city and present a plan and expect to get feedback, you don't preemptively destroy it and then hold people hostage by saying if you don't like it, we'll destroy the whole fucking thing. They could have bought any other site without an historic or significant or nice or beloved building. They chose that one. They owe the residents, especially the ones in the area, who, for some terrible reason, care about this building. And, no I don't have to buy it myself. Have you ever felt bad that building was torn down that was significant? Did you say to yourself, oh well, they have right to do anything they want. Toxic dump, whorehouse? Why even bother...
They don't owe the residents anything. Why would they? The preservationists have had decades to protect this building and never did.
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  #113  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 12:37 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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Here's the latest coverage of the "excessive spazzing" over this building:

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...izes/83195640/

http://downtowndevil.com/2016/04/19/...ing-demolished

I attended part of the historic preservation commission meeting to hear the presentations, although I had to leave before the vote mentioned.

I wonder if the dismissed "consultants" being blamed for the decision to start demolition are the prior law firm representing Empire, or someone else.

Last edited by exit2lef; Apr 19, 2016 at 12:53 PM.
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  #114  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 3:43 PM
dtnphx dtnphx is offline
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Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil View Post
You're not alone. There's a large amount of excessive spazzing when it comes to Circles
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Maybe the excessive spazzing by people who actually give a shit caused them to finally take things seriously and apologize for being preemptive and will now incorporate the remaining building better into the development that they want a big fucking tax break for. Corporate welfare, period.
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  #115  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 4:21 PM
ASUSunDevil ASUSunDevil is offline
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Ignorant people will forever mistake kindness for weakness:

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...s-records.html
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  #116  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 5:33 PM
dtnphx dtnphx is offline
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Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil View Post
Ignorant people will forever mistake kindness for weakness:

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...s-records.html
Your statement was very kind.
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  #117  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 8:43 PM
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Originally Posted by dtnphx View Post
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Maybe the excessive spazzing by people who actually give a shit caused them to finally take things seriously and apologize for being preemptive and will now incorporate the remaining building better into the development that they want a big fucking tax break for. Corporate welfare, period.
I hope the preservationists (from now on I'm calling them the movementarians) that have their panties in a wad understand that if they fight the GPLET and it is not ultimately approved by the City they can kiss the rest of the building good bye. As it stands it's not demolished entirely and the best part (the south half) is totally still in play for incorporation into a great project. Be the bigger person, accept the apology (however weak the apology may be), realize there's still a lot left to save, and let's move forward to make Roosevelt even better. Trying to save the entire Circles building which means it'll sit and rot and likely fall down (because no way in hell would it have ever been preserved in its entirety) does nothing for everyone, whereas incorporating (the best) part of it into a new great development that adds to the residential base and the growth of Roosevelt helps basically everyone.

Why couldn't the movementarians have been OK with the south half of the building being saved and renovated and possibly ask for 5% affordable housing like was approved in the Derby? Wouldn't that have been a good enough trade off for the GPLET? I mean fighting the GPLET means no one gets anything in perpetuity for this site. At least approving it we all get something (part of the historic building, a new building, and some tax revenue which is better than zero).

As the movementarians are talking now, I think 20 years from now when the GPLET was never approved and the rest of the Circles building has been long since completely demolished and on site is nothing more than an empty lot or maybe a relatively uninspired apartment building with unleased ground floor retail, everyone including the movementarians will be thinking "damn, it would have been cool if even just part of the Circles building was left and incorporated into this site. We should have let cooler heads prevail."

Hoover, you can't have seriously fallen so far off the deep end that you're now a movementarian. Don't you work for GPEC?
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  #118  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 9:26 PM
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combusean combusean is offline
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This thread is now open and has been backfilled.

I am very disappointed with some of the name calling and hostility that occurred here while I was out of town.

Please don't make me get out the banhammer again and keep things civil.

Last edited by combusean; Apr 19, 2016 at 10:53 PM.
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  #119  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 11:26 PM
dtnphx dtnphx is offline
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Originally Posted by PHX31 View Post
I hope the preservationists (from now on I'm calling them the movementarians) that have their panties in a wad understand that if they fight the GPLET and it is not ultimately approved by the City they can kiss the rest of the building good bye. As it stands it's not demolished entirely and the best part (the south half) is totally still in play for incorporation into a great project. Be the bigger person, accept the apology (however weak the apology may be), realize there's still a lot left to save, and let's move forward to make Roosevelt even better. Trying to save the entire Circles building which means it'll sit and rot and likely fall down (because no way in hell would it have ever been preserved in its entirety) does nothing for everyone, whereas incorporating (the best) part of it into a new great development that adds to the residential base and the growth of Roosevelt helps basically everyone.

Why couldn't the movementarians have been OK with the south half of the building being saved and renovated and possibly ask for 5% affordable housing like was approved in the Derby? Wouldn't that have been a good enough trade off for the GPLET? I mean fighting the GPLET means no one gets anything in perpetuity for this site. At least approving it we all get something (part of the historic building, a new building, and some tax revenue which is better than zero).

As the movementarians are talking now, I think 20 years from now when the GPLET was never approved and the rest of the Circles building has been long since completely demolished and on site is nothing more than an empty lot or maybe a relatively uninspired apartment building with unleased ground floor retail, everyone including the movementarians will be thinking "damn, it would have been cool if even just part of the Circles building was left and incorporated into this site. We should have let cooler heads prevail."

Hoover, you can't have seriously fallen so far off the deep end that you're now a movementarian. Don't you work for GPEC?
Wow, you're are so incredibly clever! Movementarians! Did you know old people are called octogenarians? Wait, those who don't eat meat are often referred to as vegetarians! Yeah.
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  #120  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2016, 3:59 PM
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