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  #161  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 3:47 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Originally Posted by Kngkyle View Post
Again, who cares? Fuck them.

Should Wrigley Field be demolished because it's not easy to get to by car?

It's strange to me that someone is arguing in favor of auto-centric development here.
I'm not arguing for auto centric development at all. I'm saying it's a bad location because transit is not convenient.
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  #162  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 3:57 PM
Kngkyle Kngkyle is offline
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Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
I'm not arguing for auto centric development at all. I'm saying it's a bad location because transit is not convenient.
Do you believe Toyota Park is in a better location as far as transit convenience is concerned?
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  #163  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 3:58 PM
Investing In Chicago Investing In Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by Kngkyle View Post
Again, who cares? Fuck them.

Should Wrigley Field be demolished because it's not easy to get to by car?

It's strange to me that someone is arguing in favor of auto-centric development here.
How do you propose 20,000 people realistically arrive to a stadium at Lincoln Yards?
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  #164  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 3:59 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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are we really expecting 20k crowds for minor league soccer? the sox dont even draw that on average
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  #165  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 4:14 PM
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Steely Dan Steely Dan is offline
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Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
this could have all been solved with just letting the Fire continue to play at Soldier Field. its a public facility after all, but pretty sure the Bears were the ones who were crying about them tearing up "their" field
my memory is that it was the Fire who were clamoring for their own soccer-specific facility.

that's how they ended up at toyota park. they were willing to do anything (like sign a 30 year lease) and go ANYWHERE (like the middle of nowhere wilderness of bridgeview) to get their own soccer-specific stadium.

in hindsight, what a bone-headed mistake that was.
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  #166  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 4:23 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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i dunno, i do recall disputes around the fact that the field was torn up after Fire games and the bears definitely werent sorry to see them go. is there any reason they couldnt just come back to Soldier Field after their lease is up?
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  #167  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 4:32 PM
Kngkyle Kngkyle is offline
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Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago View Post
How do you propose 20,000 people realistically arrive to a stadium at Lincoln Yards?
How do 42,000 arrive at Wrigley Field?

Whatever your answer to that is, is my answer to your question.
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  #168  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 4:35 PM
Investing In Chicago Investing In Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by Kngkyle View Post
How do 42,000 arrive at Wrigley Field?

Whatever your answer to that is, is my answer to your question.
Cool...so you have no intelligent response.

I take it you've never been to Wrigley Field or the Lincoln Yards site or both...Stevie Wonder could see they are vastly different.
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  #169  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 4:36 PM
Freefall Freefall is offline
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Originally Posted by Kngkyle View Post
How do 42,000 arrive at Wrigley Field?

Whatever your answer to that is, is my answer to your question.
You want them to walk from the Addision red line? lol
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  #170  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 4:37 PM
moorhosj moorhosj is offline
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Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago View Post
How do you propose 20,000 people realistically arrive to a stadium at Lincoln Yards?
There is a lot of traffic in the area today, but the Kennedy runs right next to Lincoln Yards so that would likely bring a lot of people. The brown, blue and red lines are within walking distance (around 1 mile). Metra is next door.

The North Branch framework plan also calls for additional bridges, more lanes and improved transit access for the surrounding area.
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  #171  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 5:06 PM
Kngkyle Kngkyle is offline
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Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago View Post
Cool...so you have no intelligent response.

I take it you've never been to Wrigley Field or the Lincoln Yards site or both...Stevie Wonder could see they are vastly different.
Instead of throwing unwarranted personal insults, how about you explain why you see them as being vastly different.

This is what it looks like to me -

Lincoln Yards has:
Blue Line
Red Line
Brown Line
2 Metra Lines
Water Taxi
606
Next to Expressway
20,000 fewer seats than Wrigley
135,000 people living within a 20 minute walk

Wrigley Field has:
Red Line
Proper street grid
135,000 people living within a 20 minute walk

Toyota Park has:
A big parking lot
20,000 people living within a 20 minute walk



In addition to that, we don't even know all of the infrastructure and road improvements that Sterling Bay has in mind for the site.

How can people argue that Lincoln Yards is not well connected by transit but Wrigley Field or Toyota Park is?
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  #172  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 5:24 PM
Freefall Freefall is offline
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Originally Posted by Kngkyle View Post
How can people argue that Lincoln Yards is not well connected by transit but Wrigley Field or Toyota Park is?
Because there's a big difference between being right on top of an L stop and being a 15-20 minute walk from one. And nobody is arguing Toyota Park is convenient to transit.
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  #173  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 5:32 PM
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nomarandlee nomarandlee is offline
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Meh, can't say I'm really too excited about a 2nd rank soccer facility to be a centerpiece of the LY development likely with a lot of exposed concrete. Would rather have open park space or smaller scale programming that will be used more than 40 days per year 3hours at a time.

I look at the development of the riverfront a bit as a mini-version of the lakefront. And if we could do it all over again I wouldn't have Soldier Field sit right on the lake.
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  #174  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 5:34 PM
Kngkyle Kngkyle is offline
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Originally Posted by Freefall View Post
Because there's a big difference between being right on top of an L stop and being a 15-20 minute walk from one. And nobody is arguing Toyota Park is convenient to transit.
That would hold true if it was a single L stop and single L line in both situations. But it's not, it's 3 L stops and 3 L lines close to Lincoln Yards. And two Metra lines that stop at the site itself.
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  #175  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 5:51 PM
mark0 mark0 is offline
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Originally Posted by nomarandlee View Post
Meh, can't say I'm really too excited about a 2nd rank soccer facility to be a centerpiece of the LY development likely with a lot of exposed concrete. Would rather have open park space or smaller scale programming that will be used more than 40 days per year 3hours at a time.

I look at the development of the riverfront a bit as a mini-version of the lakefront. And if we could do it all over again I wouldn't have Soldier Field sit right on the lake.
Exactly my sentiments too. We have so little natural resources here besides the lake and river, and the river really is more like a sluggish drainage channel, that we should restore and preserve as much as possible for recreational use. Hell, Id even be in favor of a land clearing low lying depopulated neighborhoods to restore the natural wetlands that existed here before settlement and move those residents into other depopulated neighborhoods in order to stem the blight. We could gain urbanity where needed while restoring wetlands, Oak savanahs and flood mitigation with one policy. It would also lessen the water diversion from the Lake Michigan watershed.
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  #176  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 6:01 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Originally Posted by mark0 View Post
Hell, Id even be in favor of a land clearing low lying depopulated neighborhoods to restore the natural wetlands that existed here before settlement and move those residents into other depopulated neighborhoods in order to stem the blight. We could gain urbanity where needed while restoring wetlands, Oak savanahs and flood mitigation with one policy. It would also lessen the water diversion from the Lake Michigan watershed.
I think this would be great, but it will never happen.
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  #177  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 6:31 PM
Rizzo Rizzo is offline
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Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago View Post
Cool...so you have no intelligent response.

I take it you've never been to Wrigley Field or the Lincoln Yards site or both...Stevie Wonder could see they are vastly different.
I feel like standing on my podium of transportation psychology but people always find a way. Kind of like the people that walk a mile to their cars who do decide to drive to see the cubs.

As part of the planning process for anything in this city, people get so hung up on the details of traffic, parking and transportation. Well traffic and lack of parking are inherent “problems” of dense urban areas. And the transportation bit can come later if it’s needed. The fact this facility will be embedded between two very populated areas means they’ll get quite a few people (including families) walking there. You also got bikeshare, buses and a not-so-far walk to the brown line. Perhaps some garages on-site for office workers can handle limited parking after hours for those that choose to drive.

I realize there’s no direct connections to the proposed stadium, but a 10-15 minute walk is something people can usually deal with. It’s at least a more pleasant walk than crossing acres of asphalt at most stadiums.
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  #178  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 6:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Freefall View Post
Because there's a big difference between being right on top of an L stop and being a 15-20 minute walk from one. And nobody is arguing Toyota Park is convenient to transit.
Yes, unfortunately that's the biggest problem I have with Lincoln Yards, although overall i'm very excited about the development. The transit currently just sucks except for the Metra.

The only viable one for people on a routine basis without getting too upset is the Brown/Purple at Armitage is a half mile away. Still though you couldn't even really say that stop "serves" the development, it's just far enough that it's a pain in the ass to walk back and forth for it if you're doing it every day. Sure, for some it would be fine, it would be fine with me, but if you're looking at a massive multi-use development with thousands or tens of thousands of people coming in - Armitage is just a handy thing to have nearby - it isn't close enough to officially "serve" this development.

Blue and Red lines - yeah you can do it, but they're both 1+ miles away. It's possible and people can and will, but I wouldn't sell the development, stadium or to any Amazon workers as being served by the Blue or Red. Big stretch if you're trying to convince people this is totally handy to use every day. At this point you have people that will do it, and then a TON of people who will just say screw it and grab an uber because that mile to mile and a half at the end is just a bit too much after getting to the train and riding it as well.

I REALLY hope they do the downtown connector or transitway or some other form of official, FREQUENT, rail service directly to the heart of the development. The L lines can augment it for people that live in the city, but still those coming on the blue or red are going to roll their eyes at that mile walk through a random neighborhood just to get to the edges of the huge development. In a world class city it should have direct service - I hope they build that!
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  #179  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 6:52 PM
PKDickman PKDickman is offline
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Originally Posted by Kngkyle View Post
This is what it looks like to me -

Lincoln Yards has:
Blue Line
Red Line
Brown Line
2 Metra Lines
Water Taxi
606
Next to Expressway
20,000 fewer seats than Wrigley
135,000 people living within a 20 minute walk

Blue Line and the Brown are each more than a mile's walk. Metra is the closest at a half mile and Red line at 3/4.
The water taxi is a joke.
The 606 doesn't get there
The Expressway if precisely why it is an auto-centric project
and
There are currently about 40,000 people in a one mile radius of LY. If they max out the MLA for the LY acreage it might reach 75000.
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  #180  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 7:18 PM
moorhosj moorhosj is offline
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Originally Posted by PKDickman View Post
Blue Line and the Brown are each more than a mile's walk.
Not quite, it's about the same distance as the Addison Red Line station to Southport and the Ashland stop on Green/Pink to the United Center.
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